[quote]hardcoreukno0359 wrote:
I totally agree with X on the front raises, any chest and incline work is already probably over kill for most people on the front delts, besides you have 2/3 of the muscle left, and most people just finish off with overhead presses for shoulders.
Im not sure if X agrees, but bigger shoulders for me has resulted more from lateral and rear lateral raises to increase the most mass of that muscle and with from a rear view. nothing makes you wider than massive rear and side delts that make your should pop and touch your ears.[/quote]
I don’t disagree at all. I started doing shoulders twice a week a while ago and my lateral heads are sticking out more. I have only seen one bodybuilder who seemed to have delts that were “too big” and even they were still impressive so I plan on continuing to push it.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
MytchBucanan wrote:
Don’t forget heavy upright rows. Especially with wrist straps, you can go heavy.
I’m not a huge fan of or totally anti upright rows like some folks, but I gotta say that doing em heavy enough to require straps sounds like a guaranteed shoulder problem sooner or later for a lot of people.[/quote]
Well, that is why I think it is important to keep a forward lean. When you stand very upright, keeping the travel close to the body, it is much harder on the rotator cuff.
I find if you keep approx. a 70% forward tilt with your torso, it takes the stress off the movement. You can’t go quite as heavy though.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
hardcoreukno0359 wrote:
I totally agree with X on the front raises, any chest and incline work is already probably over kill for most people on the front delts, besides you have 2/3 of the muscle left, and most people just finish off with overhead presses for shoulders.
Im not sure if X agrees, but bigger shoulders for me has resulted more from lateral and rear lateral raises to increase the most mass of that muscle and with from a rear view. nothing makes you wider than massive rear and side delts that make your should pop and touch your ears.
I don’t disagree at all. I started doing shoulders twice a week a while ago and my lateral heads are sticking out more. I have only seen one bodybuilder who seemed to have delts that were “too big” and even they were still impressive so I plan on continuing to push it.
[/quote]
i second that, can never have shoulders that are too big or be to wide, my goal is not be able to walk through a door without turning sideway, it looks like you might have that problem x
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
hardcoreukno0359 wrote:
<<< my goal is not be able to walk through a door without turning sideway, >>>
My goal is to have lateral delts somebody notices =[ Makin SOME progress, but shit!! My stubbornest body part for sure.[/quote]
the notice factor is more of a rear delt thing, makes your shoulders stand up. since most people have more internally rotated shoulders, it pulls out the rear delt
[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I have only seen one bodybuilder who seemed to have delts that were “too big”
Who was that? The one freakishly big shoulder dude I remember is Bertil Fox[/quote]
You probably wouldn’t know him, but it was Rudy Richards when he first started competing in NPC. He has now brought up his arms and chest to match, but before that (in 2003), he looked like he had cannon balls pasted to his collar bone and it looked disproportionate.
This is a good discussion. I wish I could have jumped in here sooner, but que sera.
Some of my thoughts on serious shoulder development, for the OP are:
Pay your dues with the basics, barbells mostly and some dumbbells.
Isolate from day one. Seriously.
Pick at least two, compounds that put about as much on emphasis on your side delts as is SAFELY possible.
Press seated. There are exceptions, but I don’t see you as being one.
You seem pretty green. That’s no shame in and of itself, everyone has been there. Just be patient, bust your ass, for years.
You may want to add, more than one iso movement per shoulder head, later on. No joke, heavy compounds along with two laterals is like I said, no joke.
Some other thoughts are that, standing presses, are really best if are doing Push Press Variations. That’s about it for presses, if you have just got to be fucking standing do some kind of Push Press. However I don’t stand during presses.
Like I suggested I don’t Push Press. Still I think Push Press Variations are acceptable bodybuilding movements even though they are pirated from Olympic training. If for no one else, true beginners.
Upright Rows, the tool of the devil. Yes, these have fucked up a lot of people. Performed bodybuilder style they are quite risky.
However, there is an Olympic movement that is very similar to an Upright Row, but it incorporates Leg Drive, and some momentum, something like a “cheated” Upright Row. This is much safer, as Olympic trainees practice this with far less injuries than the “bodybuilding” style.
If one is interested in this movement, I suggest they hit me up for more details AND they research it, on this site AND others first. Food for thought.
[quote]LAMF wrote:
However, there is an Olympic movement that is very similar to an Upright Row, but it incorporates Leg Drive, and some momentum, something like a “cheated” Upright Row. This is much safer, as Olympic trainees practice this with far less injuries than the “bodybuilding” style.
If one is interested in this movement, I suggest they hit me up for more details AND they research it, on this site AND others first. Food for thought.[/quote]
[quote]veruvius wrote:
LAMF wrote:
However, there is an Olympic movement that is very similar to an Upright Row, but it incorporates Leg Drive, and some momentum, something like a “cheated” Upright Row. This is much safer, as Olympic trainees practice this with far less injuries than the “bodybuilding” style.
If one is interested in this movement, I suggest they hit me up for more details AND they research it, on this site AND others first. Food for thought.
Are you talking about high pulls?[/quote]
Yes. I actually practice this movement. I think it is excellent. I know old-timers ( 40’s ) that have had a history of using this movement since their Olympic Lifting days, and they never needed surgery. Contrary to Upright Rows.
On a side, this is bit of technical movement as is true of all Olympic movements. Master your tech first. Don’t cheat on this one, even though you might be accused of cheating my the uninitiated.
[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
lil_diesel90 wrote:
Your shoulders are almost the dead last place on your body to recieve fat of any kind. So naturally it is harder to make them broader and more bulky in general if you have no fat on them to build with.
When did storing fat in various bodyparts in order to make them “bulky” become a part of building muscle? I always thought the whole point was the gain muscle…and if fat came a long with it to an extent, that was fine…I never knew that I just needed shoulder fat to have big imposing shoulders![/quote]
you don’t need the fat, I just find it helps to have something to build on.
[quote]lil_diesel90 wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
lil_diesel90 wrote:
Your shoulders are almost the dead last place on your body to recieve fat of any kind. So naturally it is harder to make them broader and more bulky in general if you have no fat on them to build with.
When did storing fat in various bodyparts in order to make them “bulky” become a part of building muscle? I always thought the whole point was the gain muscle…and if fat came a long with it to an extent, that was fine…I never knew that I just needed shoulder fat to have big imposing shoulders!
you don’t need the fat, I just find it helps to have something to build on.[/quote]
Having broader shoulders is not a function of fat accumulation at all. There is no correlation. Bodyfat comes from an excess of calories. An excess of calories is also needed in order to gain lean mass. How does having fat on your shoulders help you build lean mass? It may come along with the creating of that mass. Fat gain is a side effect, not a precursor to muscle gain.
You find it helps? How much lean mass have you gained at 155 lbs?
This is a quote I remember from this site a long time ago. “If you wanna be built like a bull, then eat like a bull. If you want to be built like a chiken then eat like a chicken.”
If you wanna get big then lift big, and eat big. Its a simple game, don’t make it too hard. Do your presses and rows for your compound lifts, and after that do your isolation movements. Thats it. Easier said than done.
Good exercises
Compound
Bench Press
Incline Bench press
Military Press (infront of the head)
Arnold Press
Bent over rows
Cable rows
Dumbell rows
Isolation
Shoulder raises (side, front, bent over)
Plate holds (straigh out in front)
[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
lil_diesel90 wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
lil_diesel90 wrote:
Your shoulders are almost the dead last place on your body to recieve fat of any kind. So naturally it is harder to make them broader and more bulky in general if you have no fat on them to build with.
When did storing fat in various bodyparts in order to make them “bulky” become a part of building muscle? I always thought the whole point was the gain muscle…and if fat came a long with it to an extent, that was fine…I never knew that I just needed shoulder fat to have big imposing shoulders!
you don’t need the fat, I just find it helps to have something to build on.
Having broader shoulders is not a function of fat accumulation at all. There is no correlation. Bodyfat comes from an excess of calories. An excess of calories is also needed in order to gain lean mass. How does having fat on your shoulders help you build lean mass? It may come along with the creating of that mass. Fat gain is a side effect, not a precursor to muscle gain.
You find it helps? How much lean mass have you gained at 155 lbs?[/quote]
Ya know, this is a fairly unassailable line of reasoning you have goin here on all fronts.
