This is an inverted row. It has been in at least TWO T-Nation articles, ones that have been in the last 6 months.
.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
If I can reproduce the same movement on a machine that I can do when bent over with dumbbells, how can it possibly “grind up my shoulders” simply because it is while on a machine? You will potentially do more damage with those “rows to the neck” (what most other humans have called upright rows for a few decades now) than you will ever do on a pec deck machine.[/quote]
Because the machine will lock you into one position, whereas with free weights you can move the weight in the safest position for your body. With a machine you move the resistance in the planes that the machine forces you too. This is fine if it follows the natural movement of your shoulder. It is very bad if the machine doesn’t. I don’t let any of my clients use pec decks as I’ve seen too many shoulder injuries from people who heavily utilise them in their programming.
A row to the neck is a seated row where the bar is pulled with elbows flared to the clavicle. An upright row is very a different movement.
I tell everyone to avoid machines where possible, especially machines like pec decks that are so restrictive in their angles.
[quote]Sxio wrote:
Professor X wrote:
If I can reproduce the same movement on a machine that I can do when bent over with dumbbells, how can it possibly “grind up my shoulders” simply because it is while on a machine? You will potentially do more damage with those “rows to the neck” (what most other humans have called upright rows for a few decades now) than you will ever do on a pec deck machine.
Because the machine will lock you into one position, whereas with free weights you can move the weight in the safest position for your body. With a machine you move the resistance in the planes that the machine forces you too. This is fine if it follows the natural movement of your shoulder. It is very bad if the machine doesn’t. I don’t let any of my clients use pec decks as I’ve seen too many shoulder injuries from people who heavily utilise them in their programming.
A row to the neck is a seated row where the bar is pulled with elbows flared to the clavicle. An upright row is very a different movement.
I tell everyone to avoid machines where possible, especially machines like pec decks that are so restrictive in their angles. [/quote]
I have NEVER, not once in several years of training, heard of someone getting a shoulder injury from a pec deck. I think the worse advice you can give is to tell someone they should avoid all machines. Yes, free weights are great. That doesn’t mean that my work on HS machines for the past few years has done anything but keep me from injuring myself considering the weight I had worked up to with dumbbells. That “restrictive angle” is the exact angle I want in order to isolate my rear delts.
If you can use a machine for a movement, and you don’t hurt yourself, what’s really the problem with it? I mean this in the case of all things up to and including using the smith machine for squats.
^This is retarded. Maybe not quite as retarded for the rear delt though.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I have NEVER, not once in several years of training, heard of someone getting a shoulder injury from a pec deck. I think the worse advice you can give is to tell someone they should avoid all machines. Yes, free weights are great. That doesn’t mean that my work on HS machines for the past few years has done anything but keep me from injuring myself considering the weight I had worked up to with dumbbells. That “restrictive angle” is the exact angle I want in order to isolate my rear delts.[/quote]
Well woohoo for you. Do you have a point? Just because you’ve never heard of anyone getting an injury from one does not mean it’s not so. But if you noted in my post, I said that I have seen many clients with shoulder issue who extensively use the pec deck. I did not say their injuries came from the pec deck, only that they had used it extensively. However, in my mind that’s a strong enough correlation for me to avoid the machine.
Noone will change my mind that the exercise in the pic is a dumb way to work your chest and will be bad for your shoulders. How often do you bring your elbows together in front of your chest to move something?
I notice you did not comment on my description of what a row to the neck really is. If you didn’t know that, what else don’t you know?
You can train how you like, I will train myself and my clients according to what I’ve observed personally and what I’ve learnt professionally. The beauty of what we do is that as yet there is still room for many different styles of
training.
Someone want to tell me how I can use a decent weight on face pulls without pulling myself toward the cable tower? :-p
[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
Someone want to tell me how I can use a decent weight on face pulls without pulling myself toward the cable tower? :-p[/quote]
Maybe try doing them seated, with a low pulley.