Should I Push the Top 5/3/1 Sets with the BBB Variation

Training
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So I’ve seen some conflicting information on the BBB variant of 5/3/1. Some people say that you can push the final PR set beyond the prescribed reps and then do BBB after but others I’ve talked to say not to push the final sets.

I’m just a little confused because the final PR sets are one if the biggest appeals for me in the program, but I also love the idea of the BBB hypertrophy work afterward.

Also Jim Wendler says
“You can push the final 5/3/1 sets – do the [5/3/1 program] as you normally would” in this link about BBB Boring But Big

So what’s all the conflicting information about?

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Nothing conflicting at all. Jim says you can do that. You absolutely can. You can also NOT do that.

If my goal is hypertrophy, I DON’T push the main work, because I’m pushing the supplemental work…because my goal is hypertrophy.

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I think some of the confusion comes from the main sets, especially early on in a new TM, are laughably easy if you don’t push pass the prescribed reps.

Last I heard Jim said your TM should be a weight you could do 5 times easily… which makes 90% of that something probably like an 8-10RM if not even lighter. And then you are only supposed to do 1 rep on 1’s week… it doesn’t really feel like anything. Not even a warm up really.

Part of the reason I don’t use 5/3/1 anymore really, I was always too stupid to figure out how much was too much and how little was too little.

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4

Only if going for bare minimums. 5s progression is the standard approach these days, which has you do 5 reps per set no matter the week. Good way to keep proficient with heavy loads without blowing yourself out

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Yep. And I wouldn’t necessarily say:

I think it’s more that you can confidently get 5 crisp reps with it, but not that it would feel light or easy. For me personally, I love 5’s PRO as the standard main working sets that Jim has evolved 531 into.

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For mass, it really should be 6’s Pro.

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I guess I define “crisp” as easy. Crisp to me means nice a fast, no grind at all.

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I suppose that makes more sense with 5s pro for sure, I haven’t kept up with all the ins and outs over the years

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I don’t understand how you could push the supplemental work. The reps are prescribed and so is the weight?

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And it should be hard work when doing BBB.

Getting it all done in under 20 minutes with assistance work done between sets goes a long way too.

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I chuckled, maybe too hard.

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I’m a bit confused. My goal is to get stronger, that being said, I still care about hypertrophy but not as much as strength. So obviously my main priority here should be to push the last set of the first 3 main sets as much as I possibly can. But I worry that this might leave me unable to complete the BBB work, and if I am able to complete it on any particular day, that it will interfere with my lifts the next days by making me too sore. Jim recommends going only 30% of your training max for the lower body BBB lifts so he seems to account for this.

So I guess my questions are:
If I push the last set of the main work as much as I can, and also do the BBB work after at (50% training max for upper body lifts) (30% of training max for lower body lifts) and also do some ab assistance work or some lat work (as outlined in this article Boring But Big), will that be too much work in your opinion?

Say I decide not to push the last set of the main work and only do the prescribed reps, will that be enough of a stimulus to increase strength?

Also Thank you for taking the time to respond to this post and the ones I’ve made before it :smiley:

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Why are you doing BBB then? It’s for building size. The final B in it is for “Big”, and Jim has referred to it as his hypertrophy program many times.

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Honestly I’m doing it because I have hypertrophy as a secondary goal after strength, and because the base 5/3/1 program seems like WAY too little work. I understand that it’s not incredibly easy, but just 3 sets is too little for me.

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Do the boring but strong program instead: 5s pro (sets of 5 for all 3 work sets) followed by 10x5 at FSL (same load as first work set). If you’re feeling spicy, there’s the boring but strong challenge which I believe is FSL for the first cycle, FSL + 5% for the second cycle and FSL + 10% (or SSL) for the third cycle. Anyone who has forever can correct me on that

Also there’s a cool boring but strong template which had deadlift and press for 5s PRO on day 1, squat and bench for 5s PRO on day 2, deadlift and press for 10x5 @ FSL on day 3 and squat and bench for 10x5 @ FSL on day 4. That would be a pretty good program to get lots of technical practice in for your Big 4 lifts

I highly recommend purchasing Beyond 531 if you are inexperienced with 531 programming, and/or Forever 531 if you understand the concepts

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There is no base program though. I imagine you mean the “I am not doing Jack sh*t” program.

I asked you in a previous thread and you didn’t answe this question: have you read any of Jim’s books?

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Run Conjugate if possible. It’s the best of both worlds: strength and hypertrophy. Don’t use bands and/or chains either if you’re a beginner - it will cause too much confusion. The best part of Conjugate, in my opinion, is the variability of workouts. You change them up so much you never go stale and each workout is something to look forward to.

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As much as I appreciate conjugate, if someone is struggling to understand 5/3/1, I cannot imagine they will have much success understanding conjugate.

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You make a very good point!

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It seems like you’re equating the 3 working sets of 531 with the entire program/workout. There are so many variations of what a 531 program looks like (the Forever book is literally program after program), and I can tell you it is in no way too little work.

A typical program will have:

3 warm up sets + jumps/throws
3 workings sets (what you elude to a being too little work)
Supplement sets (5x10 or 5x5 or 10x5; others are possible too. This is usually based on the first or second weight used on your working sets.)
Assistance. This might be 100 pull ups, 100 dips, and 100 KB swings. I often do these with a weight vest. You can also superset these and spread out after each set above. You may also use rows, push ups, and goblet squats; with other possibilities.

If this seems WAY too little, I don’t know what to tell you.

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