probably the most overused post title in the history of the forum but hey!
Ive been ‘cutting’ for 15 months. lost 9 stone.
check out :
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1743814
for pics and more background.
looking at the pics now, do you think i should continue calorie deficit, or should i buy a load of supps, starting taking creatine before bed, BCAAS all the time and eat my way cleanly out of the deficit?
ill post 1 pic here again if you can’t be bothered visitng the link!
by the way my measurements and skinfolds tell me im 14-16% bf - does that look right to you?
depends on your goals
I would say eat more and gain more muscle easier, but some people like to remain lean year long.-you could do that and still gain considerable muscle mass-
Its up to you what you want.
im not fussy eaither way.
its more me asking - do i look like i need muscle gain or fat loss more?
i personally think that ive been on a 15 month cut and im making excuses for why i should start builking - before the job is 100% done.
these are the dumbest threads… People who post “bulk or cut?” always need to do both. So pick one and get started instead of wasting trivial time deciding which one to do.
[quote]shizen wrote:
depends on your goals
[/quote]
Exactly.
OP, you still haven’t told us what your goals are. How do you expect us to tell you the direction you “should” go in without knowing where you want to end up?
What the hell, I’ll tell you what to do!
You’ve dieted down to an abs visible level and are showing decent definition. Good work.
Now, read Mike’s Rousell’s Carb Cycling article on the front page and see if you can build up more muscle mass without letting your bodyfat increase.
Was that so hard?.. In appreciation for my gracious wisdom you can answer a question for me:
Should I buy chocolate or vanilla Metabolic Drive???
chocolate…anything vanilla sucks when it comes to supps.
p.s. since I already took this thread in another direction dont EVER get ON’s cookies and cream protein lol tastes like sour oranges
to the OP.
finish your cut
thank you kruiser…for those of you who said its a waste of time posting for support…you waste even more time by posting without any attempt at help.
goals? everyone posting a pic wants the same thing. less fat, more muscle.
im merely asking if i have copped out of the fat loss to early by wanting to bulk.
im wasting no time as im still continuing my current approach for 3 weeks, but im advance preping for a new post new year drive.
[quote]bmar22 wrote:
chocolate…anything vanilla sucks when it comes to supps.
p.s. since I already took this thread in another direction dont EVER get ON’s cookies and cream protein lol tastes like sour oranges
to the OP.
finish your cut[/quote]
ON’s delicious strawberry for life, tastes like strawberry milk.
[quote]chutec wrote:
goals? everyone posting a pic wants the same thing. less fat, more muscle.
[/quote]
No, they don’t. Some want to get “ripped” and some want to get hyooge. The direction that the two need to go in is similar in some ways/cases, but not the same. If you don’t give us specific questions based on specific goals (and to be honest the more specific you make your goals the more likely you are to reach them) then it’s really hard to tell you which way to go.
It’s like someone coming up to you and saying, “hey can you give me some directions?” The first question you’d ask them would be, “where do you want to go?” Wouldn’t it?
Once again, it depends on your goals. If you goal is to become the most muscular individual that you can be, then no, go ahead and bulk. In that case building muscle mass is the most important thing that you should be focusing on.
If on the other hand your goal is to get “ripped” then perhaps you might want to continue to cut until you reach that goal. Then from there you can set yourself a new goal and go after that.
Good luck.
Check out carb cycling. When I first read about it I was hesitant but IT WORKS! You can gain muscle while losing BF. CT has a great article on it
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=811783
Good luck I hope this helps
sento guy, i appreciate your point. but i was really just after a completely general set of opinions based on my current picture.
looking at my picture myself i think that i still have large amounts of fat to lose.
but everyone around me thinks im going too far with the ‘cut’.
ive heard you want to get your bodyfat down way low before you bulk up so that even with a clean bulk you wont start to look chubby too quickly.
ive also considered that cutting further will make my future bulk harder. i.e ill lose some muscle if i cut more.
so the carb cycle is obviously the way to go( in fact im going that at the moment) so thanks to those who reassured me of that.
for sentoguy i think the question i should have asked was…should i bulk or cut FIRST? ;]
The “carb cycling” idea is great. Although it’s pretty common sense!
I recommend sticking to that kind of principle, John Berardi’s 7 Habits, and some good honest lifting and seeing what happens.
I know everyone on here says “Pick a goal and go for it” but if you have a life, some good honest lifting and diet will take you pretty far without worrying about microscopic details. The goal thing is great for a while but you should have other goals in your life too. And I think once you understand the principles of diet and nutrition that make YOU gain, you can stick to them without worrying about deadlines, etc.
I am much happier since I stopped obsessing over being a certain bodyweight, etc, etc. I am gaining muscle and strength and maintaining a nice BF%, and psychologically feel much better than basing my worth on my bodyweight or lifts.
BTW, GREAT job on losing 120+ pounds! And maintaining a pretty good amount of muscle. You obviously know what you’re doing.
Also I know I’m going to catch a bit of shit for this “diagnosis” but you look like you’re kinda hunched over in the side shots. You can decide whether or not you are…but regardless some mobility work for the entire body and especially the scapular/thoracic region would make you feel and look better. Also consider comparing your push vs pull numbers (horizontal).
[quote]chutec wrote:
sento guy, i appreciate your point. but i was really just after a completely general set of opinions based on my current picture.
looking at my picture myself i think that i still have large amounts of fat to lose.
but everyone around me thinks im going too far with the ‘cut’.
ive heard you want to get your bodyfat down way low before you bulk up so that even with a clean bulk you wont start to look chubby too quickly.
ive also considered that cutting further will make my future bulk harder. i.e ill lose some muscle if i cut more.
so the carb cycle is obviously the way to go( in fact im going that at the moment) so thanks to those who reassured me of that.
for sentoguy i think the question i should have asked was…should i bulk or cut FIRST? ;]
[/quote]
Haha, ok fair enough.
There are really two sides to this coin and you started to address them above.
If you lean out first then yes, when you start gaining a larger percentage of your weight gained will come in the form of muscle than if you start at a higher bf.
Don’t think though that this means that if you were to start focusing on gaining muscle now that you will automatically get fat. In many cases it’s possible to maintain your bf (or possibly even decrease it) while gaining muscle.
Really all you need for building muscle is an appropriate stimulus (lifting progressively heavier weights) and sufficient calories to support the growth of new muscle tissue.
Now, it’s true that you can gain weight faster if you just throw caution to the wind and eat like a bear coming out of hibernation. But, you’ll also end up looking like a bear getting ready to hibernate. 
On the other hand if you just eat a clean diet of sufficient calories, and continue to overload the muscles, it’s very possible to stay relatively lean while building muscle. If you see your bf start to get out of hand, just up the cardio (increase the calories burned to calories ingested ratio).
The reason why people often get upset about gaining while staying lean is because many newbies are so preoccupied/obsessed with being “ripped” that they fail to eat enough to support growth. So, in order to get them to actually eat enough to support growth, people will tell them that they’re going to have to “smooth out” a bit. I’m not suggesting that you can stay at single digit bf and still make impressive gains in muscle mass in a relatively short period of time.
Basically the leaner you stay, the slower you will gain mass/muscle. The fatter you’re willing to get, the faster you will reach your goal of muscle mass. But, there is a sweet spot (which is slightly different for every individual) where you can gain muscle at a relatively fast rate and maintain a relatively low bf %.
Unfortunately I can’t tell you what that is for you. You’re going to have to experiment and figure that out for yourself (as have all of us who have been at this for a while). Just don’t be mislead into believing that you’re going to need to get Sumo wrestler fat to build muscle, or be able to build substantial amounts of muscle while staying “ripped”.
Hope this helps.
Well said Sento. However, once you start gaining ridiculous amounts of fat your body will stop producing as much muscle. The “sweet spot” point is right on though.
[quote]tonyc wrote:
these are the dumbest threads… People who post “bulk or cut?” always need to do both. So pick one and get started instead of wasting trivial time deciding which one to do. [/quote]
Not really. Most of the guys who ask this question are skinny fifteen year olds with no muscle mass what so ever.
To the OP, it sounds like you have been training and cutting for a while now, it might be good for your metabolism to go back to eating at least maintenance for a month or two, try to gain five or ten pounds of muscle before going back on the cut. Congradulations on the progress so far.
Sentoguy I don’t know how you responded so nicely to that first post, kudos to you. Let’s just say I would not have done the same haha
thanskf ro the feeback, i should have made myself clearer from the start ;]
conwict i agree with you i have a natural hunch, what are do i have to strengthen to correct my posture do you think?
sento what i have been doing the last few weeks is:
kept my weekday intake the same (400 cal deficit- low carb except post workiout), but then given myself an excess of 500 cals on both weekend days and allowed myself to eat liberally but sensibly (i.e eating regular carbs and having a treat or 3 each weekend day)
that modification is from a constant 600 cal deficit which got me to where i am now.
not the most severe change and im bumping above and below my maitainance so i figure that will result in very very slow muscle gain.
ill just have to look at my fitday charts and resultant body fat in 2 weeks time and see wont i ;]
i like the idea of just upping my cardio if i notice a fat increase - good advice.