Should Humans Drink Milk?

Nutrition
81

[quote]punnyguy wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]punnyguy wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]punnyguy wrote:
Can someone please explain to me the material difference between drinking milk vs. using whey (or casein) protein?[/quote]

They have different macronutrient make ups…

How about you do this.

Mix your shakes with milk.[/quote]

Whey and casein protein is manufactured from milk. I thought the “new” thinking in nutrition is that the whole food is always better than the sum of it’s parts?

Why can’t you mix a shake with milk? It’s a liquid, just like water. I’m stupid, I have no idea what you’re trying to say.[/quote]

Yeah sticking to whole foods in general will yield better results.

What I’m saying here is when you drink milk you’re consuming protein, fats and carbs, while a protein powder your basically just taking in protein.

130 calories worth of whey protein powder is 24g protein, 1.5g fat and 4g carbs

130 calories worth of 2% milk is 9g protein, 5.3g fat and 12.6g carbs

Milk and whey are both good bulking products. Instead of favouring one over the other, why not use both? That’s why I suggested you mix your whey shakes with milk.[/quote]

Thanks for the response, I am in total agreement with your perspective.

My puzzlement occurs when someone who uses whey/casein protein powder paints milk as “bad” for reasons that (seemingly) have nothing to do with the nutrition profiles. This thread caught my eye so I thought I’d ask.
[/quote]

This is very true and infact whey and casein have both been heat processed more then pasteurised milk so this is a contradiction on their behalf and therefore they obviously haven’t given this the considered it needed.

82

[quote]Vicomte wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
^^^ Jesus Christ dude, making fun of someone who’s dyslexic by intentionally misspelling words is a huge dick move. Shit like this is why this site is kind of a joke. The guy presented a valid opinion and instead of engaging in articulate discussion he gets blasted for his thoughts and made fun of for his disability. Stay classy T-Nation.[/quote]

A ‘valid’ opinion?

Reread the part where he presents his valid opinion against organic food.

Stupid is as stupid does. As Momma always used to say.[/quote]

This made me smile correct me if I am wrong but you basically said:

Reread the part where he disagrees with me and my opinion on organic food. Therefore his opinion is not valid.

And the next part make me laugh. I do assume your mother was talking about you when she said that.

83

[quote]Jeffrey of Troy wrote:

[quote]Nards wrote:
It’s the organic food industry as well as health zealots that say our food is full of toxins.

Look, I’m not going to get into some long discussion, I type far too slowly for that.

The FDA is a very careful, sometimes cripplingly so, organization. The idea that they let poisons into our food and only organic can save us is wrong.[/quote]

the FDA is deeply and thoroughly corrupt; our food supply is horribly adulterated (yet another way “our” gov fails to make itself legitimate); the documentation of the evidence which proves it has been widely available for many years, but it’s not all in one place. Different foods/supps/meds, different examples, different media. Follow the clues and connect the dots.[/quote]

Yes your and my government has a huge conspiracy where they tell you to drink “bad” milk just for the sake of it so that they can make you ill cost the economy money and make the country a worse place. Great idea and from this they gain fuck all.

84

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
If you want to make someone look stupid, do so with the truth and some references. [/quote]

Oh ok. So youre talking to both sides. I thought for a second that you were singling out those who had an opinion that didnt validate your approach to bodybuilding/nutrition. My mistake

But at the same time I also cant get past the irony of this sentence and your post history. So I dont know what to believe anymore.

edit

And Im really not trying to start any sort of argument. I obviously agree with you that I want to see some studies. Because thats what each of my posts towards the english guy (Im sorry guy I know it’s your first and last name but I cant remember it) have been asking for. And I keep getting the run around mixed in with ‘I dont have time’. [/quote]

Haha no problem with being called English guy it’s easy to remember, and I am English.

85

[Quote]

You are correct here. Adolescents need the calcium milk contains to help grow bone most basically[/quote]

Have you heard of the China Study by Dr. Campbell? It shows that as dairy consumption in a population increases, so does the incidence of osteoporosis.

86

[quote]TomKaminski wrote:

[quote]Jeffrey of Troy wrote:

[quote]Nards wrote:
It’s the organic food industry as well as health zealots that say our food is full of toxins.

Look, I’m not going to get into some long discussion, I type far too slowly for that.

The FDA is a very careful, sometimes cripplingly so, organization. The idea that they let poisons into our food and only organic can save us is wrong.[/quote]

the FDA is deeply and thoroughly corrupt; our food supply is horribly adulterated (yet another way “our” gov fails to make itself legitimate); the documentation of the evidence which proves it has been widely available for many years, but it’s not all in one place. Different foods/supps/meds, different examples, different media. Follow the clues and connect the dots.[/quote]

Yes your and my government has a huge conspiracy where they tell you to drink “bad” milk just for the sake of it so that they can make you ill cost the economy money and make the country a worse place. Great idea and from this they gain fuck all. [/quote]

I don’t know about England, but here in the US, the FDA most definitely works for the food industry, not for the consumer. In fact many of the higher-ups in the FDA came from various food and chemical companies including Monsanto who is the major producer of GMO products currently available in the US market.

87

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
If you put little bowls of milk out in the wild and went back ad checked on them, guess what you’d find… you’d find that you’d have to refill the bowls or the animals would turn on you and say, “Give me some more f*&^ng milk, cause that shit is delicious.”

So should we drink milk? People vary as much as does the quality of the milk. Some people do fine with grocery store junk milk and others do not. Sadly this commercially available milk is nearly the only milk which 98% of Americans know about… bla bla blahbidy blah blah, and I say sadly because pasteurization destroys many of the good for you components of milk, including lactase which helps digest milk. Organic, raw, unpasteurized milk gives most people no ill effects (including no upset stomach) and actually has a curative effect for many diseases such as asthma, which is actually worsened by commercial “regular” milk. Also for what it’s worth, I think it’s completely stupid to say that “humans are the only species that drinks milk.” That’s because we have hands, brains, tools, production techniques etc.[/quote]

Exactly! ^^^ I drink at least a quart of whole milk from grass fed pastured cows a day. Also a lot of raw milk butter and cheese. REAL milk is a perfect food for humans.

88

[quote]athomefitness wrote:

[Quote]

You are correct here. Adolescents need the calcium milk contains to help grow bone most basically[/quote]

Have you heard of the China Study by Dr. Campbell? It shows that as dairy consumption in a population increases, so does the incidence of osteoporosis.[/quote]

I have not I will look into and I don’t like to comment on something that I haven’t looked at.

89

[quote]athomefitness wrote:

[quote]TomKaminski wrote:

[quote]Jeffrey of Troy wrote:

[quote]Nards wrote:
It’s the organic food industry as well as health zealots that say our food is full of toxins.

Look, I’m not going to get into some long discussion, I type far too slowly for that.

The FDA is a very careful, sometimes cripplingly so, organization. The idea that they let poisons into our food and only organic can save us is wrong.[/quote]

the FDA is deeply and thoroughly corrupt; our food supply is horribly adulterated (yet another way “our” gov fails to make itself legitimate); the documentation of the evidence which proves it has been widely available for many years, but it’s not all in one place. Different foods/supps/meds, different examples, different media. Follow the clues and connect the dots.[/quote]

Yes your and my government has a huge conspiracy where they tell you to drink “bad” milk just for the sake of it so that they can make you ill cost the economy money and make the country a worse place. Great idea and from this they gain fuck all. [/quote]

I don’t know about England, but here in the US, the FDA most definitely works for the food industry, not for the consumer. In fact many of the higher-ups in the FDA came from various food and chemical companies including Monsanto who is the major producer of GMO products currently available in the US market.
[/quote]

Virtually everything that you eat is GM in some way most of the crops we have today are not naturally occurring, but are due to our agricultural revolution. I do not wish to get into theres corruption theories, and regret bringing it up, because there isn’t anyway to prove it wrong or write. So lets leave that for another time.

90

I would like to point out quickly that I do believe that what an animal is feed on will alter its nutrient profile, because it does. So that’s not the argument although there is a argument in that but lets leave it for another time. Im going to have to start a thread where I state things and people reticule me refusing to acknowledge what I have to say.

91

lol

how unsurprising.

92

I’m pretty dairy tolerant it seems, as I’d say 3/4ths of my daily 300ish grams of protein are from whey, whole milk, and cottage cheese. I noticed that once I switched to drinking organic milk as opposed to ‘regular’, I never get gassy or bloated, like I use too with it.

That, along with the fact organic eggs and beef taste about 10x better to me, was enough to ‘sell’ me on the alleged ‘organic propaganda’.

93

No one has mentioned organic dairy products often boast their cows are not treated with rBGH or rBST. This could be an advantage, though I can’t find any conclusive evidence of its ill effects (sources say that more testing has to be done). Do people think these hormone treatments are a concern as far as dairy products is concerned (or meat consumption for that matter)?

94

[quote]qsar wrote:
No one has mentioned organic dairy products often boast their cows are not treated with rBGH or rBST. This could be an advantage, though I can’t find any conclusive evidence of its ill effects (sources say that more testing has to be done). Do people think these hormone treatments are a concern as far as dairy products is concerned (or meat consumption for that matter)?[/quote]
Most definitely! Hormonal Milk and Meat: A Dangerous Public Health Risk | HuffPost Life

95

[quote]MODOK wrote:

[quote]TomKaminski wrote:
I would like to point out quickly that I do believe that what an animal is feed on will alter its nutrient profile, because it does. So that’s not the argument although there is a argument in that but lets leave it for another time. Im going to have to start a thread where I state things and people reticule me refusing to acknowledge what I have to say. [/quote]

But what you have to say isn’t particularly intelligent or thought-provoking. You start a discussion and then say you don’t have time or patience to post any substance because we "won’t read it."You are simply falling into the same reductionist mindset that always limits discussions on nutrition. You acknowledge “what an animal eats changes what is in its milk”, yet completely dismiss the changes that pasteurization and homogenization impart on the fragile natural proteins, fats, enzymes and probiotics in natural milk. Make no mistake, these are very important things to consider, and they do fundamentally alter the final product. You cannot see that if you are not willing to view nutrition as a whole instead of an amalgamation of individual components.
[/quote]

What I ment by this is that we already have many discussions on the go and if we continually add the we will never discuss any of them in enough detail. So let’s stick to the four I outlined then branch out from there.

96

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
I’m pretty dairy tolerant it seems, as I’d say 3/4ths of my daily 300ish grams of protein are from whey, whole milk, and cottage cheese. I noticed that once I switched to drinking organic milk as opposed to ‘regular’, I never get gassy or bloated, like I use too with it.

That, along with the fact organic eggs and beef taste about 10x better to me, was enough to ‘sell’ me on the alleged ‘organic propaganda’. [/quote]

What you feel is not science. There are probably good reasons for what you experienced but we can’t to an argument seriously based on what you feel.

97

[quote]MODOK wrote:

[quote]TomKaminski wrote:
I would like to point out quickly that I do believe that what an animal is feed on will alter its nutrient profile, because it does. So that’s not the argument although there is a argument in that but lets leave it for another time. Im going to have to start a thread where I state things and people reticule me refusing to acknowledge what I have to say. [/quote]

But what you have to say isn’t particularly intelligent or thought-provoking. You start a discussion and then say you don’t have time or patience to post any substance because we "won’t read it."You are simply falling into the same reductionist mindset that always limits discussions on nutrition. You acknowledge “what an animal eats changes what is in its milk”, yet completely dismiss the changes that pasteurization and homogenization impart on the fragile natural proteins, fats, enzymes and probiotics in natural milk. Make no mistake, these are very important things to consider, and they do fundamentally alter the final product. You cannot see that if you are not willing to view nutrition as a whole instead of an amalgamation of individual components.
[/quote]

I would appreciate reading. My posts before dismissing them.

There is no breakdown of peptide linkages; therefore, casein can be considered a thermal-resistant compound. Although α-lactoalbumin is relatively heat stable, other whey proteins can be denatured as a result of heating. These denatured proteins are more digestible than their natu- rally occurring form because the protein?s structure is loosened and enzymes can act easier (Renner, 1986). Pasteurization

I do recognises this post doesn’t address fat, enzymes and probiotics. I will go onto this next.

98

[quote]TomKaminski wrote:

[quote]MODOK wrote:

[quote]TomKaminski wrote:
I would like to point out quickly that I do believe that what an animal is feed on will alter its nutrient profile, because it does. So that’s not the argument although there is a argument in that but lets leave it for another time. Im going to have to start a thread where I state things and people reticule me refusing to acknowledge what I have to say. [/quote]

But what you have to say isn’t particularly intelligent or thought-provoking. You start a discussion and then say you don’t have time or patience to post any substance because we "won’t read it."You are simply falling into the same reductionist mindset that always limits discussions on nutrition. You acknowledge “what an animal eats changes what is in its milk”, yet completely dismiss the changes that pasteurization and homogenization impart on the fragile natural proteins, fats, enzymes and probiotics in natural milk. Make no mistake, these are very important things to consider, and they do fundamentally alter the final product. You cannot see that if you are not willing to view nutrition as a whole instead of an amalgamation of individual components.
[/quote]

I would appreciate reading. My posts before dismissing them.

There is no breakdown of peptide linkages; therefore, casein can be considered a thermal-resistant compound. Although α-lactoalbumin is relatively heat stable, other whey proteins can be denatured as a result of heating. These denatured proteins are more digestible than their natu- rally occurring form because the protein?s structure is loosened and enzymes can act easier (Renner, 1986). Pasteurization

I do recognises this post doesn’t address fat, enzymes and probiotics. I will go onto this next.

[/quote]

I have already apologises for assuming you will not read my references, and have now provided references. As I am being schooled as a scientist then due to the manner in which science works if anyone can prove that raw milk is better for me then I will change my mind. But at the moment the evidence points towards that it doesn’t matter as it is potentially dangerous.

I only ask that you guys and girls approach this with equally balanced approach. It seems to me that some people approach this as of a attact on their person and will not discuss it further. This does not surprise me with the propaganda that the organic activist spread.

99

Ok so probiotics:

Probiotics are defind as live bacteria, with a prove beneficial effect on the health of the host.

These bacteria may have a role in the treatment of cow’s milk allergy related diarrhoea. But clinical studies are inconsistent.

Lahtinen SJ, Guesimond M, Ouwehand AC, et al: comparison of four methods to enumerate probiotic bifidobacteria in fermented food product, Food Microbiology 23(6):571, 2006.

To be effective, normally active live cultures need to be administered; however, optimal doses are unknown due to concerns over adverse effects such as systemic bacteramias need further investigation.

The facts are there are no facts there is not enough studies that show wether probiotics are definitively helpfully or not. So I do not know wether they help or not and nether can you, at this time. Although if they are good for you, then you could just get them from other sources such as yogurt.

100

Hopefully this won’t be taken into examination to much simply trying to answer someone’s question.

They mentioned something about having IBS.

Fructose malabsorption is reported in more then one in three IBS patients. One study demonstrated an improvement in all types of IBS symptoms in 74% of patients found to have fructose malabsorption following a diet low in fructose and polyols.

Shepherd SJ, Gibson PR: Fructose malabsorption and symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome: Guidelines for effective dietary management, JAMA 106:1631-1639, 2006

And another study

Shepherd SJ, Parker FC, Muir JG, Gibson PR: Dietary Triggers of Abdominal Symptoms in patients with Irritable Bowel Syndrome: Randomized Placebo-controlled Evidence, Clinical Gastroenterology and Hepatology 6:765-771, 2008