Newbie Question:
Why is proviron not used coming off many of the “sample” cycles I have seen on here? Mind you I have seen it added, just not to the degree that I would expect.
Is it a “looks good on paper, not as effective in real life” sort of thing? Price? Availability? SHBG is not that big of a deal? What?
Seems to me that the effects of Clomid therapy would be maximized (in terms of minimum dosages, minimum recovery time, and max return on gains) if Proviron was used to bind the large amounts of SHBG floating around and let more of your natural T production start taking over. Ex: Is three weeks of Clomid more “cost effective” than 1 week of “Prov”. What about keeping your gains?
Let me quantify me previous example:
Ex: Is three weeks of Clomid more “cost effective” than 1 week of “Prov”. What about keeping your gains?
I did not mean to insinuate that you would replace clomid completely with Proviron. Instead, adding prov concurrently with Clomid and perhaps shortening the length of Clomid required, etc. It should have read
Ex: Is three weeks of Clomid more “cost effective” than 1 week of “Prov” and only 2 weeks of Clomid concurently. What about keeping your gains?
Proviron should only be used if you are trying to get your girl pregnent or having major trouble post cycle with no libido.
Proviron is supressive - not as bad as other roids but it will slow down recovery.
Thanks for the reply. Here is an excerpt that got me pondering the question…
[quote]The second use (of PROVIRON) is in enhancing the potency of testosterone. Testosterone in the body at normal physiological levels is mostly inactive. As much as 97 or 98 percent of testosterone in that amount is bound to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin, two proteins. In such a form testosterone is mostly inactive. But as with the aromatase enzyme, DHT has a higher affinity for these proteins than testosterone does, so when administered simultaneously the mesterolone will attach to the SHBG and albumin, leaving larger amounts of free testosterone to mediate anabolic activities such as protein synthesis. Another way in which it helps to increase gains. Its also another part of the equation that makes it ineffective on its own, as binding to these proteins too, would render it a non-issue at the androgen receptor.
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[/quote]Interesting con as you mentioned which seems counter to the ‘rumors’ that proviron will make you sport wood like no other [quote]
Unlike what some suggest or believe, its not advised that Proviron be used when not used in conjunction with another steroid, as it too is quite suppressive of natural testosterone, leading to all sorts of future complications upon discontinuation. Ranging from loss of libido or erectile dysfunction all the way up to infertility. One would not be aware of such dangers because Proviron fulfills most of the functions of normal levels of testosterone.
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The best thing to stack it with is testosterone of course. Its most easily bound to SHBG and albumin, and deactivated for up to 98%. Since the DHT can compete for these structures with higher affinity it would naturally lead to a higher yield of whatever testosterone product you stacked it with. Since DHT levels are notably higher now there is also more stimulation of the androgen receptor causing more strength gains, and because of its affinity for aromatase the overall estrogen level decreases as well. This has as a result that gains are leaner, and once again the overall testosterone yield is increased as less I converted at the aromatase enzyme.[/quote]
I am still curious as to why proviron won’t enhance the ability of your natural test production by allowing more to roam freely instead of being bound to the SHBG when taken along with Clomid for supression. The increased T usage should help you keep your gains as you come off your cycle. Proviron is anti-aromitaze but you are still taking clomid to block the hypothalamus (correct?) which in turn secretes GnRH to the pituitary which secretes LH to the nuts causing them to increase T production and reduces your suppression.
The only difference in clomid only and clomid + proviron is your body is able to use more of your body’s natural test.
Right?
“its not advised that Proviron be used when not used in conjunction with another steroid, as it too is quite suppressive of natural testosterone”
Proviron is also an androgen. And there is more than one method of shutting your test production down. Example: you can take all the clomid in the world but if your test levels are 23,543 ng/dl you are not going to be producing your own natural test. Your test levels have to be below normal physiological levels before your body kicks in and begins producing more. This is just the way it works. T levels have to have fallen off and estrogen must decrease as well, before you can begin to produce your own T. So yes in the short term you will increase your the effects of your natural testosterone circulating because it takes a few weeks before shut down occurs, and if there is more unbound endogenous test in your system, of course you are going to be more horny and of course you will have better gains. But sooner or later your natural production shuts down and then these effects will fall off unless you add an exogenous test. So at the end of the cycle you must take into acount the half life of proviron like everyother steroid, make sure it is fully out of your system, and then begin recover using clomid and /or nolvadex. Hcg during wouldn’t be a bad idea while using proviron either.
Great response prisoner, I forgot the test AND estrogen have to be lowered before endogeous T production kicks back in. In this case… the SERM’s help by making estrogen seem super low - but if the androgen feedback is still there… no dice.