[quote]therajraj wrote:
I notice all the people against shaming are also the ones in favour of promoting a healthy lifestyle.
My question is, where is the evidence that will work?[/quote]
My sobriety and the thousands of people I’ve known who got sober.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I notice all the people against shaming are also the ones in favour of promoting a healthy lifestyle.
My question is, where is the evidence that will work?[/quote]
My sobriety and the thousands of people I’ve known who got sober.[/quote]
I just googled it and according to this site 12 step programs have a 90% failure rate.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I notice all the people against shaming are also the ones in favour of promoting a healthy lifestyle.
My question is, where is the evidence that will work?[/quote]
Actually, I don’t know. Why don’t you think long and hard about the little experiment I conducted for your sake over in the Master Troll thread and tell me how you feel about it?
Also can we really equate shaming drunks effectiveness to shaming the average obese person?
Seems like 2 different breeds of people
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I notice all the people against shaming are also the ones in favour of promoting a healthy lifestyle.
My question is, where is the evidence that will work?[/quote]
The evidence of this is hidden away in virtually every psychological study and strategy done and developed to understand and implement a system to modify behavior.
The results overwhelmingly point out that positive reinforcement on a random reward schedule trumps the fuck out of negative reinforcement, which is what shaming actually is.
Feel free to be ashamed now that you have gotten twenty pages into an argument without a fundamental understanding of what the hell you are talking about.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Those are some very good points DB. In a lot of cases, shame doesn’t work. You can’t make a person feel any worse than they already do, and even if you try your efforts are both futile and sadistic. You might be able to get the person to feel worse, but at that point you might as well throw them off of a bridge.
My wife has had a weight problem, and after having our son it has become worse. What do you guys suppose I do? Come home every night and make her feel like complete garbage? Keep doing that until she no longer feels like breathing?
No Thanks. I already know that she feels very badly about herself. Do you guys suppose I should make that worse? Maybe I can make her feel so badly that she develops a good healthy eating disorder like anorexia or bulimia. Or how about just shaming her into leaving so that I don’t have to look at her any more? Then she can be a single mother with a new baby and I can be a single dad with a nice child support payment and a lifetime of regret!
You guys are fucking genius!
Or maybe I can just be supportive and present some healthy options for diet and exercise that we can both feel good about.
[/quote]
Again, I, for one, am not suggesting that coming home and haranguing your wife would be at ALL effective in motivating her to lose weight.
I still think both sides in this debate are either misinterpreting or misrepresenting each other’s ideas of what “shame” entails.
[/quote]
I understand what it entails. I’m just bringing it home instead of toying with the idea in the abstract.
It’s great to talk about society builders and what not, but that lacks any real viscera. Lets cut straight into the flesh of it, right where it lives. The people who experience it.
Here’s another example of what she deals with on a regular basis- Being ostracized at work. She’s a smart woman and well educated. She’s a very hard working member of the management team at work. But here’s the catch- She’s not part of the in group. She has to work her ass off with a crew that has been stacked against her by her manager. Every chance they get she gets nit picked and analyzed in ways that are just flat out unfair, which would never happen to the members of the in group. She is currently being looked over for a promotion and has been passed over several other times for positions which she is imminently qualified for.
Who gets them? The pretty little idiots who everybody love, because they are better looking, slimmer, and know how to shake it in just the right faces.
It’s the halo effect in reverse. Instead of finding someone attractive to be things that are not necessarily true, the opposite happens. They see her as lazy, unqualified, and certainly not their equal, let alone superior.
That is shamming. That is how it happens.
Real society builder, huh?
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I notice all the people against shaming are also the ones in favour of promoting a healthy lifestyle.
My question is, where is the evidence that will work?[/quote]
The evidence of this is hidden away in virtually every psychological study and strategy done and developed to understand and implement a system to modify behavior.
The results overwhelmingly point out that positive reinforcement on a random reward schedule trumps the fuck out of negative reinforcement, which is what shaming actually is.
Feel free to be ashamed now that you have gotten twenty pages into an argument without a fundamental understanding of what the hell you are talking about.
[/quote]
Do you have any actual direct evidence that positive reinforcement trumps negative reinforcement in the context of fat people?
Or is this one sweeping generalization to help you rationalize not doing anything about your wife’s stretch marked covered rolls?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I notice all the people against shaming are also the ones in favour of promoting a healthy lifestyle.
My question is, where is the evidence that will work?[/quote]
The evidence of this is hidden away in virtually every psychological study and strategy done and developed to understand and implement a system to modify behavior.
The results overwhelmingly point out that positive reinforcement on a random reward schedule trumps the fuck out of negative reinforcement, which is what shaming actually is.
Feel free to be ashamed now that you have gotten twenty pages into an argument without a fundamental understanding of what the hell you are talking about.
[/quote]
Do you have any actual direct evidence that positive reinforcement trumps negative reinforcement in the context of fat people?
Or is this one sweeping generalization to help you rationalize not doing anything about your wife’s stretch marked covered rolls?[/quote]
I would ask if you always resort to personal attack in the face of your own ignorance, but this example is all I really need.
Stand proud as the first person to ever make it to my ignore list, you piece of shit dothead.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I just want to make clear that I was not suggesting we should be bullying or otherwise tormenting or harassing people.
[/quote]
If it gets them to change their behavior why not? Just bullying, tormenting, and harassing you. lol
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I notice all the people against shaming are also the ones in favour of promoting a healthy lifestyle.
My question is, where is the evidence that will work?[/quote]
The evidence of this is hidden away in virtually every psychological study and strategy done and developed to understand and implement a system to modify behavior.
The results overwhelmingly point out that positive reinforcement on a random reward schedule trumps the fuck out of negative reinforcement, which is what shaming actually is.
Feel free to be ashamed now that you have gotten twenty pages into an argument without a fundamental understanding of what the hell you are talking about.
[/quote]
Or is this one sweeping generalization to help you rationalize not doing anything about your wife’s stretch marked covered rolls?[/quote]
LOL…you continue to be such a huge troll asshole.
You are a true internet douche warrior.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Or is this one sweeping generalization to help you rationalize not doing anything about your wife’s stretch marked covered rolls?[/quote]
very disrespectful and unnecessary.
Fucking 7-11 workers, not a smart one in the bunch.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]therajraj wrote:
I notice all the people against shaming are also the ones in favour of promoting a healthy lifestyle.
My question is, where is the evidence that will work?[/quote]
The evidence of this is hidden away in virtually every psychological study and strategy done and developed to understand and implement a system to modify behavior.
The results overwhelmingly point out that positive reinforcement on a random reward schedule trumps the fuck out of negative reinforcement, which is what shaming actually is.
Feel free to be ashamed now that you have gotten twenty pages into an argument without a fundamental understanding of what the hell you are talking about.
[/quote]
Or is this one sweeping generalization to help you rationalize not doing anything about your wife’s stretch marked covered rolls?[/quote]
LOL…you continue to be such a huge troll asshole.
You are a true internet douche warrior.[/quote]
X1000
Maybe shaming really will work and this asshole won’t come back. Doubtful he’s got enough class to be ashamed.
Alright guys, ill admit I was out of line with that comment.
Some crap was happening at work and I used my reply to skyzks to vent my anger.
While I do think you are rationalizing I shouldn’t have chosen the words I did. You’re obviously just concerned about your wife.
See shaming does work?
I dunno guys, maybe we should go easy on him, lest he come back and call the anti-shammers a bunch of hypocrites.
So while I’m thinking about it, a question for Cortes then I’m out of the thread-
Is this demonstration of behavior by therajraj what you were referring to when you mentioned lack of humility?
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Alright guys, ill admit I was out of line with that comment.
Some crap was happening at work and I used my reply to skyzks to vent my anger.
While I do think you are rationalizing I shouldn’t have chosen the words I did. You’re obviously just concerned about your wife.
See shaming does work? [/quote]
No it doesn’t you came back.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
Alright guys, ill admit I was out of line with that comment.
Some crap was happening at work and I used my reply to skyzks to vent my anger.
While I do think you are rationalizing I shouldn’t have chosen the words I did. You’re obviously just concerned about your wife.
See shaming does work? [/quote]
No all it shows is your a child and will continue to think like a child.
I suggest growing a pair of balls and take care of your own failed job instead of projecting on other people.