[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
toughcasey wrote:
Does Bill or anyone else know if the oil in Flameout is in the natural triglyceride form? this is why I use Nordic or Crayhon stuff…
thanks!
I don’t know. I would not worry about it either way however as the body hydrolyzes fats to free fatty acids anyway, and the usefulness in the body of DHA and EPA is as the free fatty acids, not as being part of a triglyceride.[/quote]
can you help me translate what these two studies are saying about bio availability?
What I buy is $18 for 360 caps. You have to take 4 a day to get the dose that is in one Flameout cap. If you take one Flameout cap a day, you get ~550 mg DHA and an 88 day supply. If you take 4 of the brand I buy, you get ~600 mg of DHA for a 90 day supply.
Againn, the Flameout is 30 bucks, the brand (GNC) I buy is 18 bucks. I don’t mind taking something like 6 caps/ serving twice a day in order to get a lot of fish oils, if I can recoup 12 dollars for each container I buy. Thats upwards of $50 a year (depends on the doses you are taking it at), which you can ultimately splurge on Surge or Superfood or whatever you want. Its all about priorities.
I know that an argument against GNC can be that their products aren’t as “potent” as Biotest products are. All I know is that these fish oils have treated me well, and I like saving the money for more important stuff.
Looking at the first, the abstract – which is just a summary and doesn’t give the means to see exactly how the authors arrived at what they did – reads:
What is done is that blood levels, or more accurately plasma levels, are measured at several time points. Curve-fitting is done to try to estimate what the levels would have been at all time points, though in fact only a few points are typically measured. The area under the calculated curve is figured, and this gives the total amount estimated as delivered.
One material is chosen as the reference: in this case, the triglyceride form.
The calculation was that EPA had 186% the bioavailability – in other words 86% more – than did the fatty acids form.
Ethyl esters were worse.
A general principle one always has to use in science is that when a claimed conclusion is weird, that it had better be really soundly backed up, else one is entitled to suspect that something about the method or some other reason is what generated the weirdness.
Since the bioavailability of the free fatty acids could not be in excess of 100%, if EPA as free fatty acids was 186% of EPA as triglycerides, that would means as triglycerides, bioavailability could at best be 54%. (Since 186% of 54% is 100%.)
We already know that when fats aren’t absorbed, the Olestra effect occurs.
It is an unlikely finding that the triglycerides are so poorly absorbed.
It is probably the case that the delivery curve is different: in other words probably less of the triglyceride is delivered very promptly, and more at a later time. Thus, curve fitting will not be the same and it’s possible that the sampling method gives a falsely high estimation of the curve for the free fatty acids and falsely low for the triglycerides.
Additionally, measuring plasma levels is actually not directly measuring total delivery, as the liver is inbetween. It might well be the case that slower delivery of the triglyceride form results in a greater percentage being temporarily taken up in the liver and released later, completely missing the time points used in the plasma measurement.
These are possible explanations which the study probably (not having the full text) doesn’t have evidence to exclude. The weird result of concluding that triglycerides are at best 54% bioavailable thus remains questionable, rather than something that ought to be considered to have been demonstrated.
On the the second one:
[quote]Absorption of eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acid from fish oil triacylglycerols or fish oil ethyl esters co-ingested with a high-fat meal.
Lawson LD, Hughes BG.
Murdock Pharmaceuticals, Springville, Utah 84663.
The absorption of eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) from fish oil triacylglycerols and fish oil ethyl esters consumed in a high-fat meal (44 g total fat) by male volunteers was measured and compared to values previously reported for consumption in a low-fat meal (8 g total fat). Absorption of EPA, but not of DHA, from fish oil triacylglycerols was significantly improved from 69% to 90% by co-ingestion with the high-fat meal. Absorption of both EPA and DHA from fish oil ethyl esters was increased three-fold, to about 60%, by co-ingestion with the high-fat meal, indicating that absorption of fatty acid ethyl esters is highly dependent on the amount of co-ingested fat.[/quote]
Here they say that bioavailability, with the same concerns about measurements as for the previous study, was calculated as being better when taken with a high-fat meal.
Again I have wondered when seeing this sort of finding whether the difference really is in absorption, or whether more makes it past the liver first-pass when there are other fats competing, so to speak, for the liver’s attention.
What I would want to see would be an isotopic study that establised for a fact what percentage was excreted unabsorbed. The amount absorbed would then be 100% minus that amount. This would be far more conclusive. Additionally it would be possible to learn the time course of delivery where the fatty acids spend some time in the liver before being released to the bloodstream: a process that probably (I would think almost undoubtedly) happens.
[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
Is it workoutworld? That’s the only place I could find Workout Fuel - which CT has persauded me to try. Damn thing cost Ã?£52.49 so it better be good. Oh, how I do envy our American cousins sometimes![/quote]
No I order direct from here. Workout Fuel oost around £45 for me when the exchange rate was 1.40 or there abouts, I ordered in bulk but play around with the quantities to save on shipping. When I bought Flameout exhange rate was about 1.80. Now it’s about 1.60, so you might want to wait for it to change.
£52.49 is a lot, when the exchange rate gets better I recon it could work out as low as £40(maybe lower).
I normally buy a years supply when making an order to save on shipping.