Serge Nubret Pump Training

Training
161

Just had an interesting point to bring up. In the article it says that he didn’t train to failure, rather choosing to keep the pump throughout. Yet I have found 2 quotes in particular where he says otherwise.

“As i said before i had the possibility to put the weight i want into my mind so i did not really need the weight. That means every set i’m able to go to failure” “Yes has been ask, but again, every set to FAILURE”

Just wondered what was your take on this. As currently I’m not sure what to do in my training. I’m finding some sets towards the end I’m stopping at like 8 reps, and then maybe lowering the weight. I don’t know whether I should pick a lower weight for the next workout, or strive to finish those last four reps.

162

@ Ulterior
Earlier i did vary my weight to reach the 12 reps goal and i asked a similar question about weight selection.
I was told select weight and keep it. It is my understanding that reaching failure regularly is a mind thing not a physical one.

Using a weight i can do over 5 sets with short rests the first 2 seems a bit of a waste of time so i range my reps about 18 to 10. We have to realize english is not Serge first language so his english advices might not be 100 % like his french version. I think 12 is not the primairy focus to use.
Short rest, the pump are more likely the right thing to focus on.
I might do sets of 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 10, 9 more or less.

An other option might be doing sets ot 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 11, 10 with rests of 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 55, 60.
Well i guess you catch my drift.
Previously i was using a stop watch for my tempo, TUT, but it simply clashes so i made a total switch.

Counting is usefull the first 3-4 sets verifying if the weight selected matches the intention and noting 5-10 more or less pound next WO.
Failure is a no-no with high volume, six days it was written earlier.
I hope that helps and others share their 2 cents.

163

[quote]BHappy wrote:
@ Ulterior
Earlier i did vary my weight to reach the 12 reps goal and i asked a similar question about weight selection.
I was told select weight and keep it. It is my understanding that reaching failure regularly is a mind thing not a physical one.

Using a weight i can do over 5 sets with short rests the first 2 seems a bit of a waste of time so i range my reps about 18 to 10. We have to realize english is not Serge first language so his english advices might not be 100 % like his french version. I think 12 is not the primairy focus to use.
Short rest, the pump are mor likely the right thing to focus on.
I might do sets of 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 10, 9 more or less.

An other option might be doing sets ot 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 11, 10 with rests of 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 55, 60.
Well i guess you catch my drift.
Previously i was using a stop watch for my tempo, TUT, but it simply clashes so i made a total switch.

Counting is usefull the first 3-4 sets verifying if the weight selected matches the intention and noting 5-10 more or less pound next WO.
Failure is a no-no with high volume, six days it was written earlier.
I hope that helps and others share their 2 cents.[/quote]

BHappy,

You’re a prime example of someone seemingly understanding the system, and making it work for you.
No one should ever mimic another’s routine exactly. By understanding the objective, and applying the principals, one should come up with his own program that gets the desired results touted. If not, tweak as needed.

Good job, sir!

164

Did workout A this morning, and quads are toasted.

I to like the way BHappy is looking at this. Might be making a slight switch in my rep ranges or rest intervals for tomorrow.

165

[quote]Ulterior wrote:
Just had an interesting point to bring up. In the article it says that he didn’t train to failure, rather choosing to keep the pump throughout. Yet I have found 2 quotes in particular where he says otherwise.

“As i said before i had the possibility to put the weight i want into my mind so i did not really need the weight. That means every set i’m able to go to failure” “Yes has been ask, but again, every set to FAILURE”

Just wondered what was your take on this. As currently I’m not sure what to do in my training. I’m finding some sets towards the end I’m stopping at like 8 reps, and then maybe lowering the weight. I don’t know whether I should pick a lower weight for the next workout, or strive to finish those last four reps.[/quote]

That is where instinct comes into play , Serge recommended keeping the weight the same every set . But also remember how big of a fan of the MIIND he was , he would say “As i said before i had the possibility to put the weight I want into my mind so I did not really need the weight. That means every set i’m able to go to failure” The weight gain will come but give it time and start light , he never wanted true muscular failure. that has a large effect on recovery mid workout and day to day.

If on set 3 you barely get 12 and set 4 you reach muscular failure, you will never get set 5. Start light, focus on the pump , the muscle stretching and flexing and increase the weights from there.

166

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]BHappy wrote:
@ Ulterior
Earlier i did vary my weight to reach the 12 reps goal and i asked a similar question about weight selection.
I was told select weight and keep it. It is my understanding that reaching failure regularly is a mind thing not a physical one.

Using a weight i can do over 5 sets with short rests the first 2 seems a bit of a waste of time so i range my reps about 18 to 10. We have to realize english is not Serge first language so his english advices might not be 100 % like his french version. I think 12 is not the primairy focus to use.
Short rest, the pump are mor likely the right thing to focus on.
I might do sets of 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 10, 9 more or less.

An other option might be doing sets ot 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 11, 10 with rests of 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 55, 60.
Well i guess you catch my drift.
Previously i was using a stop watch for my tempo, TUT, but it simply clashes so i made a total switch.

Counting is usefull the first 3-4 sets verifying if the weight selected matches the intention and noting 5-10 more or less pound next WO.
Failure is a no-no with high volume, six days it was written earlier.
I hope that helps and others share their 2 cents.[/quote]

BHappy,

You’re a prime example of someone seemingly understanding the system, and making it work for you.
No one should ever mimic another’s routine exactly. By understanding the objective, and applying the principals, one should come up with his own program that gets the desired results touted. If not, tweak as needed.

Good job, sir!
Great advice ID.
[/quote]

167

THANKS,
thanks to Iron Dwarf for your comment,
thanks to Bradley for your very interesting article about Serge Nubret Pump Training,
thanks to all participants to this thread.
I apologize if my frequent posting annoyed anyone. My goal was to keep our thread up, get readers to get contributors. It seems we reached critical mass we can choose to help each other and avoid wasting valuable training time.
About Xtra wide pressing at my gym inside posts is 44 to 41 in. Smith machine, squat rack, power rack, bench rack so i am lucky to be only 5 11. Creating a rack from 2 objects seems the option for tall ones, maybe laying on floor will work safely.
Wishing you well !

168

[quote]Bradley Joe Kelly wrote:

[quote]Ulterior wrote:
Just had an interesting point to bring up. In the article it says that he didn’t train to failure, rather choosing to keep the pump throughout. Yet I have found 2 quotes in particular where he says otherwise.

“As i said before i had the possibility to put the weight i want into my mind so i did not really need the weight. That means every set i’m able to go to failure” “Yes has been ask, but again, every set to FAILURE”

Just wondered what was your take on this. As currently I’m not sure what to do in my training. I’m finding some sets towards the end I’m stopping at like 8 reps, and then maybe lowering the weight. I don’t know whether I should pick a lower weight for the next workout, or strive to finish those last four reps.[/quote]

That is where instinct comes into play , Serge recommended keeping the weight the same every set . But also remember how big of a fan of the MIIND he was , he would say “As i said before i had the possibility to put the weight I want into my mind so I did not really need the weight. That means every set i’m able to go to failure” The weight gain will come but give it time and start light , he never wanted true muscular failure. that has a large effect on recovery mid workout and day to day.

If on set 3 you barely get 12 and set 4 you reach muscular failure, you will never get set 5. Start light, focus on the pump , the muscle stretching and flexing and increase the weights from there. [/quote]

Sorry Bradley, I realised I asked essentially the same thing already, but It can seem difficult to know what this true muscular failure is, and what’s just failure, and where I should draw the line and go lighter or stick with the same weights. I’ll try what you said with it though, which will probably mean I’ll need to lower the weight a little.

169

Really enjoying this thread guys. I am starting week two today so having done only 6 days of Pump training here are my initial thoughts

Starting light is definitely a good idea, then use the first few sessions of each bodypart to get the weight right. 20rm is way too heavy for most exercises for someone like me who has always trained heavy in the low rep ranges. Serge says 20-25rm, I would agree with 25rm.

Train through the DOMS. Everyone else seems to be experiencing the DOMS brought on by beginning this style of training. It is not like anything I have experienced before, not that it is particularly debilitating, it’s just very present without really restricting training. I was able to get straight into the second cycle and showed improvement despite my muscles feeling very sore. Now, having trained through the DOMS and finished two 3 day cycles there is barely any soreness. As another user posted, DOMS is often caused by the body doing something new.

In terms of what I want to get out of this program, fat loss is high on the list, and as I have bad muscle insertion points aesthetically, I’m looking forward to developing the muscle bellies as much as possible to still look round in the arms and legs. Chest and back are good though, and are responding well already.

I haven’t been doing the situps or calves, but I’ve been following the rest of the program, and have been resting 60 seconds for both upper and lower body exercises. I bought a stopwatch yesterday so once I feel like I’ve got my training weights right I can really start working those rest times down.

170

I’m better off not doing the Pullovers.

Those bastards kill my shoulders.

171

@ Milkismurder you wrote :
“as I have bad muscle insertion points aesthetically …”
I have no clue how we can know that. Would it happen to be what some call short muscle bellies(wich come with long tendons)?

172

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
I’m better off not doing the Pullovers.

Those bastards kill my shoulders.[/quote]

I had the same problem with pullovers until I tried two versions. These end my back workouts almost every time.

  1. John Meadow style, lying with the bench, only lower DB low enough to stretch lats without pain and only bring the DB to the top of your forehead.
  1. On a cable with a rope attachment like Stu does from this site.
173

[quote]Milkismurder wrote:
Really enjoying this thread guys. I am starting week two today so having done only 6 days of Pump training here are my initial thoughts

Starting light is definitely a good idea, then use the first few sessions of each bodypart to get the weight right. 20rm is way too heavy for most exercises for someone like me who has always trained heavy in the low rep ranges. Serge says 20-25rm, I would agree with 25rm.

Train through the DOMS. Everyone else seems to be experiencing the DOMS brought on by beginning this style of training. It is not like anything I have experienced before, not that it is particularly debilitating, it’s just very present without really restricting training. I was able to get straight into the second cycle and showed improvement despite my muscles feeling very sore. Now, having trained through the DOMS and finished two 3 day cycles there is barely any soreness. As another user posted, DOMS is often caused by the body doing something new.

In terms of what I want to get out of this program, fat loss is high on the list, and as I have bad muscle insertion points aesthetically, I’m looking forward to developing the muscle bellies as much as possible to still look round in the arms and legs. Chest and back are good though, and are responding well already.

I haven’t been doing the situps or calves, but I’ve been following the rest of the program, and have been resting 60 seconds for both upper and lower body exercises. I bought a stopwatch yesterday so once I feel like I’ve got my training weights right I can really start working those rest times down.

[/quote]

Dont sell yourself short, you have a great back already. Keep training hard, lose all negatity and just keep going, I guarantee you will be happily suprised on how far you go. That goes with any program , just keep the good work up.

174

Starting my first day of serge’s split today. Quads AM, Chest PM. I’m adjusting the split slightly, Sacrilege i know, but im doing the 3 days, then adding a fourth day for a proper ab session following the same principles, 3-4 exersizes or 6-8 sets for maximum pump, rather than doing abs in the AM. Ive just always preferred giving abs a full weighted session.

Also have people found the ‘Splash’ from doing squats managable? It just seems that the same logic that excludes deadlifts and adjusts benching would also negate the use of regular squats? I was considering doing smith-squats with feet out infront of me for pure quad work.

175

@ putter2712
You wrote " Sacrilege i know " about modifying the suggested program. I would disagree. I hope this thread can be open. Some might be forced to substitute exercise due to lack of access to a wide enough rack , an injury, etc… Also time constraint, some like alternating high reps, lower reps, etc…
My personal 2 cents would be if you cycle in 5 days or do twice your A B C D WO than rest 1 day, you might do an other abs session even if it is short. The fact it can be done at home in a few minutes is somthing i enjoy.
Welcome aboard!

176

[quote]BHappy wrote:
@ Milkismurder you wrote :
“as I have bad muscle insertion points aesthetically …”
I have no clue how we can know that. Would it happen to be what some call short muscle bellies(wich come with long tendons)?
[/quote]

Sorry, yes, that is what I mean. I don’t lose sleep over it, my goals in the past have been strength based and I’ve done quite well in that regard. This is a complete change of goals and fitness philosophy for me.

177

[quote]Bradley Joe Kelly wrote:

[quote]Milkismurder wrote:
Really enjoying this thread guys. I am starting week two today so having done only 6 days of Pump training here are my initial thoughts

Starting light is definitely a good idea, then use the first few sessions of each bodypart to get the weight right. 20rm is way too heavy for most exercises for someone like me who has always trained heavy in the low rep ranges. Serge says 20-25rm, I would agree with 25rm.

Train through the DOMS. Everyone else seems to be experiencing the DOMS brought on by beginning this style of training. It is not like anything I have experienced before, not that it is particularly debilitating, it’s just very present without really restricting training. I was able to get straight into the second cycle and showed improvement despite my muscles feeling very sore. Now, having trained through the DOMS and finished two 3 day cycles there is barely any soreness. As another user posted, DOMS is often caused by the body doing something new.

In terms of what I want to get out of this program, fat loss is high on the list, and as I have bad muscle insertion points aesthetically, I’m looking forward to developing the muscle bellies as much as possible to still look round in the arms and legs. Chest and back are good though, and are responding well already.

I haven’t been doing the situps or calves, but I’ve been following the rest of the program, and have been resting 60 seconds for both upper and lower body exercises. I bought a stopwatch yesterday so once I feel like I’ve got my training weights right I can really start working those rest times down.

[/quote]

Dont sell yourself short, you have a great back already. Keep training hard, lose all negatity and just keep going, I guarantee you will be happily suprised on how far you go. That goes with any program , just keep the good work up.
[/quote]

Thank you for your encouragement Bradley, I’m sorry if I sounded pessimistic. I love my body and one of the most rewarding parts of training for me is challenging the limitations and blessings nature has given me. Thank you for bringing Serge’s philosophy to us, as well as your own story.

178

[quote]BHappy wrote:
@ putter2712
You wrote " Sacrilege i know " about modifying the suggested program. I would disagree. I hope this thread can be open. Some might be forced to substitute exercise due to lack of access to a wide enough rack , an injury, etc… Also time constraint, some like alternating high reps, lower reps, etc…
My personal 2 cents would be if you cycle in 5 days or do twice your A B C D WO than rest 1 day, you might do an other abs session even if it is short. The fact it can be done at home in a few minutes is somthing i enjoy.
Welcome aboard![/quote]

My planned Split is A B C D repeat no rest with D being my weighted ab session. I dont like full on ‘rest days’ so having eery fourth day be a single workout should sort me for recovery.

179

On a side note, a new study done ‘Low-Load High Volume Resistance Exercise Stimulates Muscle Protein Synthesis More Than High-Load Low Volume Resistance Exercise in Young Men’

Perhaps not the be all and end all, and by no means am i saying this is how you should always train, but its definitely strong evidence for the eficacy of Serge’s training style.

180

Putter2712 please keep us posted. The last 6 weeks i have been struggling with switching from upper/lower split doing A B A B A B off to A B C A B C A B C only occasional off C would be about 20% or half work half rest with obviously A and B being 40 % of my 3 day cycle. I enjoy training but i know rest is needed.

About 4 days ago i posted a link to a somewhat similar study. The problem is they have generally limited founding so 2 participants with very high or very low pain treshold can obliviate the validity failing way to early or much later than most of us. Also using BMI is meaning nothing, a 25 BMI can mean a 28 or a 38 waste line.
Have a nice day!