Serge Nubret Pump Training

[quote]Mr.Windupbird wrote:
Hi everybody I’m going to start this routine tomorrow, and I was wondering about a few things which I’d appreciate some advice on.

  1. Should an extremely wide grip be used for incline bench as well as flat bench?
  2. If someone can’t do 20 chin ups should they substitute them for close grip lat pulldowns until they get stronger or just try to build up to 20 slowly?
  3. I only have a lying leg curl machine in my gym… Should I just do 16 sets total with this or is there a good substitute for the standing leg curl?

Thanks. [/quote]

My opinion:

  1. Yes. Otherwise triceps and front delts take over (according to Nubret).
  2. Yes, do the pulldowns instead.
  3. Do 8 sets with heels touching and knees apart, and 8 sets with knees together and feet apart.

[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
Oh yeah he didn’t use, he just took these little pink vitamins!

THis a is a 70’s era BBer, AKA full of shit. Do you really believe that nubret did 2000 sit ups a day for his abs? Do you really believe he was drug free?

I personally think he was a great BBer, but absolutely full of shit. Most people couldn’t complete that workout routine. And if you look at most other 70’s era bodybuilder’s shared routines, they all are a ridiculous amount of sets and reps, usually followed by some whacked out stunt like 2000 sit ups or OD’ing on HCL tablets.

Examples:

Arnold got his legs huge by bring a group of friends into the woods, getting hammered, and doing squats for hours on end.

Franco columbu popularized ingesting an extra HCL Tablet with all meals to help digest extra protein, which usually ended up with people puking and having an overtly acidic feeling in the esophagus.

Gironda: “Large amounts of fertile eggs, is equal to the anabolic steroid Dianabol in effectiveness.” - also advocated not doing squats because it only grows your ass.

[/quote]

How old are you?

Most people NOW can’t complete this routine. Because they want P90x, insanity results in 60 min or less 3 days a week.

Do you realize they say testosterone is going down in men? I don’t think it’s pollution either. Minus athletes kids sit on their ass more than ever, before video games, 500 channels, people went outside and did shit all day. Those with focus would do the same thing all day, guess what happened? Their bodies adapted, their skills enhanced. Depending on the weight this program could be easy.

As you raise the weight and it gets more difficult your body would adapt and become like his. With the volume and an average 70’s diet (meaning not supersize fries and soda all day) you would be pretty large and pretty cut. This was the reason people didn’t want to be bodybuilders back then it took too long, nowadays we have all kinds of shortcuts. But hard work and consistency will have results. Put the internet down.

Have you ever tried these things you say don’t work?

Thanks Iron Dwarf.

Wait…so people REALLY think there weren’t guys doing 2,000 sit ups a day?

These guys trained for HOURS back then. If you were in and out of the gym in under two hours before 1985 you were a pussy.

The new class doesn’t seem to be bringing the pain on the real world knowledge.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Wait…so people REALLY think there weren’t guys doing 2,000 sit ups a day?

These guys trained for HOURS back then. If you were in and out of the gym in under two hours before 1985 you were a pussy.
[/quote]

Yep. Also, these guys truly loved to train. The whole gym experience (especially in Southern Cali) had a strong social bond connected to it as well. These guys ate, slept, and breathed bodybuilding - together.

My first legs WO felt like my left shoe on my right foot. I realized my previous high intensity mindset clashed. Today felt much better using the same weights but from 35 sec. i used 60 sec. sets. From 85 sec. rests i used 60 sec. rests. I also changed from 15 reps to 12.
Next time i will do 15 reps keeping all other parameters. It is still early but i think for me equal work-rest time will be fine just like jogging left-right repeat. I did 18 sets versus 16 previously.

Years ago, when I first heard about that 2000 situps a day stuff, I immediately tried it out; even when it felt stupidly oldschool - which is exactly my kind of thing, just as overcomplicated, nerdy ideas are.

If you’re too heavy/thick-boned or simply a fatty, or have issues with your spine this might be an especially terrible idea.
But I was always good at situps and did it at appr. 85 kg- and it was still very hard at first.
My starting number of reps were 100 with increments of +10 to 20.

The first two weeks is more about learning to cope with the pain. After that is becomes easier.

At some point -500 or so- I skipped counting them and instead looked at the watch, while tv was on (I don’t live on an island where I can listen to the ocean or hang out at the beach with carribean beauties and european milfs), smashing my 24 hour old record.

I didn’t do only straight situps, although that was the pattern I always returned to.
Every 10-20 reps I would use another variation. Figured that was healthier and more effective.
I also used very short rests here and then, say for 1-2 seconds, occasionally. And there were sometimes 1 or 2 off days a week.

While I’m pretty sure I broke 1000 at some point of 30min+, I cannot say the exact #reps or the time.
Probably not 2000, as Serge did.
Anyway, 30 minutes felt great to me as an achievement and I abandoned the exercise, more because I usually DO cardio-like activities and half an hour of torture is a long time.

My abs were a bit better then usual, but I am not a talented guy and have found so far only very few exercises or programs or whatnot that had a dramatic effect on my body composition.

So I cannot really recommend doing 1000+ situps a day.

For guys who are simply interested in all around good abs, I’d honestly have to recommend a combination of:
1a) doing the big exercises standing and with deliberate ab recruitment, eg military presses
b) throwing in exercises where abs play a key role, eg one armed push ups, suitcase deads etc
c) high tension ab isolation: rollouts, [hang straight] leg raises, front lever, v sits
2) diet

It was still worth it. I even might do it again.

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Mr.Windupbird wrote:
Hi everybody I’m going to start this routine tomorrow, and I was wondering about a few things which I’d appreciate some advice on.

  1. Should an extremely wide grip be used for incline bench as well as flat bench?
  2. If someone can’t do 20 chin ups should they substitute them for close grip lat pulldowns until they get stronger or just try to build up to 20 slowly?
  3. I only have a lying leg curl machine in my gym… Should I just do 16 sets total with this or is there a good substitute for the standing leg curl?

Thanks. [/quote]

My opinion:

  1. Yes. Otherwise triceps and front delts take over (according to Nubret).
  2. Yes, do the pulldowns instead.
  3. Do 8 sets with heels touching and knees apart, and 8 sets with knees together and feet apart.
    [/quote]

I agree on all 3 . Or 8 sets normal then 8 sets one leg at a time.

[quote]Bradley Joe Kelly wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]Mr.Windupbird wrote:
Hi everybody I’m going to start this routine tomorrow, and I was wondering about a few things which I’d appreciate some advice on.

  1. Should an extremely wide grip be used for incline bench as well as flat bench?
  2. If someone can’t do 20 chin ups should they substitute them for close grip lat pulldowns until they get stronger or just try to build up to 20 slowly?
  3. I only have a lying leg curl machine in my gym… Should I just do 16 sets total with this or is there a good substitute for the standing leg curl?

Thanks. [/quote]

My opinion:

  1. Yes. Otherwise triceps and front delts take over (according to Nubret).
  2. Yes, do the pulldowns instead.
  3. Do 8 sets with heels touching and knees apart, and 8 sets with knees together and feet apart.
    [/quote]

I agree on all 3 . Or 8 sets normal then 8 sets one leg at a time.
[/quote]

I just did quads and chest today.
I know you recommended against deadlifts, but would a hip hinge, such as back extensions, be too taxing as well? I’m wondering whether it could be one of the two hamstrings exercises.

Schwarzfahrer says it right. Yesterday i did 100 reps. 125 today, in a few days i will top that block at 200, time it a few days then just keep time. It will be easy to find time for it anytime of the day. Then i will build up an other block so loosing count will not be an issue. It just make sense, like running 2 half marathons you are has healthy as 1. I ran 2 marathons years ago, the first has power giving you confidence you can achieve but the second is not worth much. In the gym i also did a few hanging knee raises with a ball between my knees about 5 pounds. Each time i am in the gym, i find a way to stretch my spine.

How did you guys progress at the 2000 sit ups a day thing, did you just do as many as you could in one set or add in more sets of 30 or whatever?

Some additional Nubret Training points… from another site:

[i] "Body parts can be split up during the days, resting for 15 minutes or done at another time of during the day, eg; quads in the morning, pecs at night

For the workout, it is recommended to find a weight that you can do 20-25 reps to failure, use that for the sets of 12 reps (15 for hamstrings) in this workout. Attempt to use the same weights through the workout of that exercise. To increase intensity of said workout, lower the rest time as stated and by mentally adding weights in your mind. Lowering the rest time will make the weights tougher, but also makes your heart and lung work harder thus providing a cardiovascular workout without the cannibalization that result from doing actual cardio at a separate time.

The first half of the set is spent feeling the muscles move and contract. This is to establish the mind to muscle connection, continue through workout to finish out the sets. If weights are chosen right and/or have been mentally added correctly, the last two sets and reps should be difficult.

Now I’m sure you noticed the ‘mentally add weight’. It is exactly like it sound, but really isn’t that far-fetched.
Simply put, you forcefully, contracting (tensing) the muscles throughout the reps to make the weight heavier for yourself. Remember when doing barbell curls, approaching failure, how much harder your muscles work, mainly how hard they contract, now when you’ve reached failure, you have someone spot you?what happens the second they touch the bar, your muscles loosen up, even though your exerting so much effort, your muscles fell looser then they were before, this is because the weight IS actually lighter, not a lot, but still lighter. See what I’m getting at?
In the same way, you learn to contract your muscles and make the weight heavier/lighter as needed. One way of learning to do this, is simply to start of with the weight you would normally use in serge’s routine, and then increase the weight each set. For the last set or two, go back to the weight you started off with and try and remember the feeling of how hard your muscles contracted and attempt to make the weight heavier by replicating that feeling by tensing.

The logical behind his workouts: His workout his centered around the ‘pump’. You get as quickly as possible and keep it going for the rest of the workout. Large muscle groups are worked separately because it is difficult to get a pump in tow large muscle groups at the same time

Compound movements and large muscle groups should have more sets and/or more rest time.

Allow different workouts to hit different angles and work the muscles differently, but keep the basic movements in the routine.

Chest and quads are done because they are large muscles. Legs are too big of a muscle group to do all at once.
Back and hamstrings for the same reason.

Superset arms with no rest because when the biceps are working, the triceps are resting. The converse is true. Also for reason for supersets, the biceps and triceps are part of the same body part, thus the pump is already there. The supersets count for the arm workout that serge has in his workout program is a TOTAL of 16 supersets.

Serge would sometimes do a large amount of reps in the first set, 15-50, to get a good pump going. Feel free to try this yourself

Every set is trying for failure, this was done by putting the mind into the muscle. By contracting/tensing the muscle as much as possible during the last few reps,one could achieve failure. ‘putting your mind in the weight’

Concentrate on EVERY rep, think about the particular muscle you are working. You should feel it working in every rep. move the weight/body in such a way that you keep constant tension throughout the whole set. Example, bench press, don?t lock out your elbows at the top of the rep, and pull downs, don?t let the bar go all the way up.

YOU control the weight, the weight doesn’t control you.

Science is nice but the body knows better. Sports science is the study of the body to guess and make hypothesis of how things work. The body knows what it needs, it will already tell you. Listen to your body when you have an understanding of what your body is asking of you. Of course, you can keep on studying, nothing wrong with, it could help you understand your body faster along with serge’s routine.

You will know when to eat because the body will tell you when it is hungry. It will tell you if you need protein and water. science is a guesstimate that changes over time. Whole foods and protein are the building blocks of building muscles. The body knows best than the scientists who don?t body build themselves. Digestion of food takes time; it is use for the next workout and for the next day.

The routine Serge has given to the community is considered intermediate. It is intermediate because it is for you to understand the body and the three powers. Once you understand, the advance routine is not given by Serge, but created by yourself from learning from him based the three powers and understanding of your body.

When modifying his routine, be sure follow the basic principles of his routine

  • high sets
  • low rest
  • 4-6 exercises per bodypart, with one exercise being a key compound exercise for each bodypart, eg: squat
  • choose the heaviest weight that allows you to finish all the sets, while keeping a low rest period. Remember to use your mind to make the weight heavier or lighter.
  • Whatever rest time, weight, sets etc you select, make sure it allows you get good pump and keep it for the duration of the workout."[/i]

@ Iron Dwarf Thanks, i had allready figured extending the first set to keep the same weight all these sets.

@ Ulterior
Abs might be approached differently according to your personality, time available, experience.

  • The key point like all exercises is 100% TOTAL RELAXATION, well… every muscle not necessairy.
    Many tend to add tension in shoulders, neck, face … that makes it tough. You will want to be efficient.
  • The key to achieve maximun relaxation is focusing on exhaling. You obviously want to exhale when you contract harder wich is natural wich makes it somewhat easy to keep doing more and more. You should never really relax your abs from the start of the first rep till the end of the last 1.

I did 100 yesterday in 1 set/block. Today i did 125 in 4:33 at home than at the gym 24 knee raises, hanging ( i enjoy stretching my spine ) the first 12 with a ball between my knees about 5 pounds. At home i did another set/block of 100 in 4:05 the first 50 twisting left, twisting right the last 50.
Within 10 days i plan to do 2 blocks of 200 each. Than probably use that has my minimum and do more on occasion according to time available.
You might start with 40 adding 5 or 10 a day. I guess some will do them 3 times weekly or every other day. It does not really mathers. Find a match with your capacities, goals, time available.
Personaly i like a positive progression so i start on the easy side and build up.
You might notice i call them blocks like building blocks.
Just like mentioned by a previous poster eventually counting can be replaced you simply do x amount of minutes.

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Some additional Nubret Training points… from another site:

[i] "Body parts can be split up during the days, resting for 15 minutes or done at another time of during the day, eg; quads in the morning, pecs at night

For the workout, it is recommended to find a weight that you can do 20-25 reps to failure, use that for the sets of 12 reps (15 for hamstrings) in this workout. Attempt to use the same weights through the workout of that exercise. To increase intensity of said workout, lower the rest time as stated and by mentally adding weights in your mind. Lowering the rest time will make the weights tougher, but also makes your heart and lung work harder thus providing a cardiovascular workout without the cannibalization that result from doing actual cardio at a separate time.

The first half of the set is spent feeling the muscles move and contract. This is to establish the mind to muscle connection, continue through workout to finish out the sets. If weights are chosen right and/or have been mentally added correctly, the last two sets and reps should be difficult.

Now I’m sure you noticed the ‘mentally add weight’. It is exactly like it sound, but really isn’t that far-fetched.
Simply put, you forcefully, contracting (tensing) the muscles throughout the reps to make the weight heavier for yourself. Remember when doing barbell curls, approaching failure, how much harder your muscles work, mainly how hard they contract, now when you’ve reached failure, you have someone spot you?what happens the second they touch the bar, your muscles loosen up, even though your exerting so much effort, your muscles fell looser then they were before, this is because the weight IS actually lighter, not a lot, but still lighter. See what I’m getting at?
In the same way, you learn to contract your muscles and make the weight heavier/lighter as needed. One way of learning to do this, is simply to start of with the weight you would normally use in serge’s routine, and then increase the weight each set. For the last set or two, go back to the weight you started off with and try and remember the feeling of how hard your muscles contracted and attempt to make the weight heavier by replicating that feeling by tensing.

The logical behind his workouts: His workout his centered around the ‘pump’. You get as quickly as possible and keep it going for the rest of the workout. Large muscle groups are worked separately because it is difficult to get a pump in tow large muscle groups at the same time

Compound movements and large muscle groups should have more sets and/or more rest time.

Allow different workouts to hit different angles and work the muscles differently, but keep the basic movements in the routine.

Chest and quads are done because they are large muscles. Legs are too big of a muscle group to do all at once.
Back and hamstrings for the same reason.

Superset arms with no rest because when the biceps are working, the triceps are resting. The converse is true. Also for reason for supersets, the biceps and triceps are part of the same body part, thus the pump is already there. The supersets count for the arm workout that serge has in his workout program is a TOTAL of 16 supersets.

Serge would sometimes do a large amount of reps in the first set, 15-50, to get a good pump going. Feel free to try this yourself

Every set is trying for failure, this was done by putting the mind into the muscle. By contracting/tensing the muscle as much as possible during the last few reps,one could achieve failure. ‘putting your mind in the weight’

Concentrate on EVERY rep, think about the particular muscle you are working. You should feel it working in every rep. move the weight/body in such a way that you keep constant tension throughout the whole set. Example, bench press, don?t lock out your elbows at the top of the rep, and pull downs, don?t let the bar go all the way up.

YOU control the weight, the weight doesn’t control you.

Science is nice but the body knows better. Sports science is the study of the body to guess and make hypothesis of how things work. The body knows what it needs, it will already tell you. Listen to your body when you have an understanding of what your body is asking of you. Of course, you can keep on studying, nothing wrong with, it could help you understand your body faster along with serge’s routine.

You will know when to eat because the body will tell you when it is hungry. It will tell you if you need protein and water. science is a guesstimate that changes over time. Whole foods and protein are the building blocks of building muscles. The body knows best than the scientists who don?t body build themselves. Digestion of food takes time; it is use for the next workout and for the next day.

The routine Serge has given to the community is considered intermediate. It is intermediate because it is for you to understand the body and the three powers. Once you understand, the advance routine is not given by Serge, but created by yourself from learning from him based the three powers and understanding of your body.

When modifying his routine, be sure follow the basic principles of his routine

  • high sets
  • low rest
  • 4-6 exercises per bodypart, with one exercise being a key compound exercise for each bodypart, eg: squat
  • choose the heaviest weight that allows you to finish all the sets, while keeping a low rest period. Remember to use your mind to make the weight heavier or lighter.
  • Whatever rest time, weight, sets etc you select, make sure it allows you get good pump and keep it for the duration of the workout."[/i][/quote]

This is a pretty nice write up and the core training is exactly the same , glad you found it. But he is definitely adding to what Serge said in some areas .

The sit ups can be adapted to whatever suites you best but Serge said only 1 set and to add a few reps each time.

[quote]Bradley Joe Kelly wrote:

This is a pretty nice write up and the core training is exactly the same , glad you found it. But he is definitely adding to what Serge said in some areas .

The sit ups can be adapted to whatever suites you best but Serge said only 1 set and to add a few reps each time. [/quote]

Apparently, Serge spent some time helping others on some other BBing forum. Some of that text is his unedited posts that were compiled to inform those interested in his philosophy.

We lost Serge WAY too soon. It’s such a damn shame.
Somehow I feel like one of the reasons I’m taking on his training style is to keep the man alive in me.

Thanks for your great article, Joe. I appreciate the fact that a young gun like yourself has found inspiration and information from a past great. Bringing Serge into the spotlight is essential to anyone picking up a barbell with any interest in the sport.

Link to the training article everyone is referencing?

Thanks.

And my thoughts on the steroid questions in this thread. They started because someone who read the article asked of Serge was natural like he claimed. It don’t start off with people jumping in this thread to say he used AAS. No one cares if top pro’s use steroids. It’s just a given like “the sky is blue” and “grass is green.” it’s only when someone lies and claims to be natural when they are clearly not that these things become an issue.

Anyway. I really like his style and his quotes are awesome. He seemed genuinely intent on helping people and had accomplished a lot but was still humble and nice. Gotta respect someone like that.

Here you go Greg

^^sweet, thanks!

I quit powerlifting yesterday, may give this a go since I’m switching gears to bodybuilding.

I’m really interested in what the size gains of this program would be versus a more ‘standard’ approach

[quote]Ethan7X wrote:
I quit powerlifting yesterday, may give this a go since I’m switching gears to bodybuilding.

I’m really interested in what the size gains of this program would be versus a more ‘standard’ approach[/quote]

Looking sick in the new avi! If I were you I’d do a 5x5 hybrid with Serge’s training.