Seeing Urologist Soon - Any Major Points?

@swoops39 @highpull @systemlord @rusty_hammer @Andrewgen_Receptors

Hi lads, thanks all for your input, further update on above after a lot of researching and enquiring (as shown above), found out that Nebido would be given on NHS 1 x 3 months however, would check on week 11 to see if this has dropped and top up if needed. This would be free which is obviously best financially which suits me at the moment.

However, discussed with another source, abd they are happy to ask for me to go get bloods, and then for £150 per month, (no questions asked) provide Nebido 1 x 12 weeks too, but then given every 8-10 weeks, or sustanon provided 1ml every 3 wks but then drops to every 2 wks. Bloods checked after 8 weeks.

I have then contacted BMH who for an expensive fee will do bloods (or i can get these done) and then have a consultation where they provide and advise Sustanon or Cypionate 0.5 every 3/4 days (which sounds a lot like the method you guys are talking about), but this is quite pricey, however after bloods and the £199 consultation, i think it drops to a payment plan dd per month.

I’m a bit stuck on cash as have a family/kids etc, so was thinking if i try the nebido regime for free and it turns out shit, then go onto the BMH in due course, would that be an issue, how long does it take to go from one process without issues to another.

The consultant from BMH sounded very knowledgable indeed, has looked at my bloods and said that they are a few things should be looking at, he’s had 47 yrs in the field of endocrinology/autoimmune conditions, which i seem to have both, and told me that its most likely primary hypogonadism as LH should be roughly be around 2 but is 6.7 (would you guys agree with this who know about bloods). My urologist didn’t even point this out.

Thoughts on above lads please?

I’ve also given over a week break training as had aches in forearms and feels like bone pain, legs have been aching too, but this seems to be now that I’ve given training a break these are all coming out, my urologist said that slow recovery is also a sign of low T, but I’ve had fingers pain as well as forearms, just weak feeling and stiffness etc, like I said I stopped training for over a week and will be resuming in due course, but going to get bloods done to see if test has changed from having a break as was 7.7 (seemed to go down after training and was higher previously before started gym).

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It’s possible you’re on your way towards the primary hypogonalism, but it doesn’t really matter, if T is low, then you treat it with TRT.

This makes sense. Everyone can argue their opinions regarding the best route to take, but all of it works for at least some. You may do very well with it.

@systemlord no worries mate, yes i think i’m gonna start with the nebido so hopefully some improvement, i bet even in the latter weeks i wont be feeling like i do now, like @highpull says too, it may work and then can always tweak or move onto private if not happy in due course but at least i’m progressing then rather than struggling to get test up, been told that boron is really good lads to increase free testosterone? So to order that too, 6mg x 2 per day = 12 mg per day? Any confirmation on this?

Lads, Was also told shbg should be up near 40 and mine was 16 last checked months ago! Getting new blood test next week so will share updated results!

Comparative effects of daily and weekly boron supplementation on plasma steroid hormones and proinflammatory cytokines - PubMed (nih.gov)

Don’t do this, SHBG will likely decrease anyway once you initiate TRT.

No worries, don’t i need my shbg to increase though, not decrease? Would it be beneficial for my FT to increase or not make any difference as will start TRT/Nebido etc?

Increased SHBG results in decreased free testosterone.

Exercise can help. So can coffee. Make sure your thyroid is not low, increasing thyroid levels will increase SHBG. Lose weight. Decrease sugar intake.

So is there any point me increasing or decreasing anything before TRT, i think thats the main question? Or no point?

This is something i’m not understanding, i’ve been off gym for over a week now. However, having issues with pain in forearms and leg muscle pains, slight dizziness at times.
When i was at gym i was not as bad, this aches have only shown up more since stopped gym. Having some pain in fingers, weakness in grip strength, power and arms. Going for walks and feeling the same as the day after i was doing incline treadmill and that was a lot more gruelling.

What should thyroid be? Last time checked Free T4 - 19.8 (11-26), TSH 0.79 (0.27-4.2) TT - 10.9, However will be getting another BT soon, but dont lnow if these levels will get checked.

Was going to gym so was excercising. Hardly have any sugar intake usually, however have had a few buscuit binges lately as had a week off work and gym :rofl:. Losing weight is what i was trying however after gym 3 x per week just weights helped a little, tried incline treadmill but like i say the pain/aches after are lasting too long so this could be to do with the low T?(recovery).

I do not think so.

The operative word is “can.”

Doesn’t look like thyroid would help.

Well, gels mimic normal release best.

Correct?

I guess, in theory maybe. Assumes they are consistently absorbed.

Hi All,

@highpull @systemlord @swoops39 @rusty_hammer @Andrewgen_Receptors @roscoe88 and anyone else

Right lads before my testosterone levels were showing at 7.7, I decided to stop training for two wk period (was on hols anyway) and in the recent blood test taken after my test was at 11. SHBG is at 15 too, which i well low.

Please see screenshots of blood test results including Testosterone, SHBG and Oestradiol (which i had to specifically request) and other results too.

I’m not sure if the levels are varying due to differing times of the day? 7.7 were later in afternoon and 11 was an appointment at 10am.

I’ve noticed that from the results, mean cell haemoglobin is a little high as is white blood cells, could this be due to low T? Or likely to be another reason please?

Is Oestradiol E2? My Oestradiol is 116, is this a high Oestradiol/E2 reading? What should I be aiming for/expecting approx on cycle on/off please? Should I be monitoring any other types of estrogen?

I have been advised to take zinc, magnesium so have been taking these, and some good fats (I have been eating almond butter and now eating salmon later in day) along with a vit E tablet - 200iu and have been told that this should increase testosterone naturally so trying this at the moment (I am awaiting for appointment to administer test undecanoate on NHS injection anyway, as none available at current time).

However would the change in diet have an impact on the high LH - 6.7? Urologist said this was fine, but endocrinoligist stated that this is seeming like primary hypogonadism? Why would Urologist say this is ok which i find a bit unprofessional?

As i said awaiting to go on TRT anyway, so i should still proceed with this right? But in meantime just seeing if above will help at all?

If they are trying to stick me with 4ml all at once shoukd i be saying stick me on an anti e too, armidex or something?

You can also see I’ve tried saying to the GP not happy about taking 4ml all at once and want to split it…dont know if they will agree though, urologist is trying to stick to regime without booking a separate appointment to discuss it! Which im trying very hard to get…




Yes, you should.

Ok cheers, as stated above, Is Oestradiol E2? My Oestradiol is 116, is this a high Oestradiol/E2 reading? What should I be aiming for/expecting approx on cycle on/off please? Should I be monitoring any other types of estrogen?

If they are trying to stick me with 4ml all at once shoukd i be saying stick me on an anti e too, armidex or something?

I’ve noticed that from the results, mean cell haemoglobin is a little high as is white blood cells, could this be due to low T? Or likely to be another reason please?

Is there anything else i should be aware of from my results do you think at all please?

Yes.

No.

A high MCH is usually means macrocytic anemia.

Not everyone is going to have symptoms of high E2. Dial-in on Test first, adjust the dosage and injection frequency to get the desired levels.

Ok is 116 high? Range shows <150

Ok, should i be worried about starting TRT with high MCH? Should i be concerned with the levels I have? If you’re saying high mch usually means macrocytic anemia, shall i ask for a certain test to find this out? If so, what is it please. Just looking at previous blood test last year and it was 32.9, recent one is 31.3 so must be better than before??

Technically 151 would be high, but again that isn’t always a bad thing.

No, regardless of other medical conditions your body needs adequate testosterone to function normally.

So many causes for high MCH, for example smoking, kidney diseases and congenital heart problems.

@systemlord @rusty_hammer @highpull @roscoe88 @swoops39 @FunkOdyssey

Hi All,

OK since I’ve last been on here, I’ve tried test gel 50mg test 5g sachets - seemed to be good but too much messing about and risk to my children/partner too which I need to avoid.

So I took the plunge and got the Nebido - Test Undecanoate - coming up to 3 weeks on Monday coming. I’m based in UK so unfortunately don’t have a massive choice on NHS.

Yesterday, I was violently sick and had major stomach cramps, seemed to bring acid up bad and some fleeting cramps in legs. Feeling a bit better today and not throwing up anymore. Is this more likely a food issue or just being ill, or could it be related to the Nebido? If so, would I not have felt something before this time?

My urologist has said I need bloods doing at 11 weeks, (I’m going to push this to 8-9 weeks, as there’s no way it will last till then, an endocrinologist I’ve been chatting to has been really helpful, he’s the one who saw my LH at 6.7 and test being at 11 and said no way should LH be that high, looks like primary hypogonadism). I told my urologist this and then he agreed (even though didn’t mention anything himself previously and said it was ok).

The endocrinologist said best thing would be sustanon 0.3 every 3 days… however if can’t do this, then closest to this would be best.

Latest bloods came back at LH 3.5, test - 10.8. So LH has come down, but maybe to do with time of day taken…

I’ll see how get on with Nebido, but can see how there’s an up and down and don’t like the idea of massive amount of test given n then comes down sharply at end - so as mentioned before stability issues.

As far as I know supposed to have a loading period too, so injection at 6 wks… urologist not mentioned this either. Is there a reason why has not done so?

If Nebido doesn’t work well or too many peaks/troughs… Will request Sustanon as I think it’s available (my GP) has confirmed it’s given to some patients.

As far as I can see, Sust is given 1 x 3 weeks? How can I push for this to be given sooner? 1ml would usually be given in a week from my young gym days? Why is this so spread out?

I’m also going to ask for hcg to avoid testicular shrinkage and to keep fertility.

Anybody on here who has had nebido and sustanon and can explain the difference in feelings/results? Any reviews of each too if possible?

Testosterone affects the immune system, I had ear infections at the start of TRT that went away as my body adapted. I have GERD too and cramps in legs that turned out to be iron deficiency.

Nebido offers very little control, Sustanon would have been a better choice.

Sustanon shouldn’t be dosed out more than 14 days because of the shorter acting esters.

Sustanon has multiple esters, short, medium and long.

No, you don’t have primary hypogonadism, LH would need to be over the ranges. You likely have combined hypogonadism, a mixture of both secondary and primary, the most common.

Combined hypogonadism is still recognized as secondary hypogonadism.

Had GERD and few cramps that don’t usually get so wondered if it was due to injection or just illness… would it be continious though if injection especially longer than a day for onset and stopping etc? Really bad stomach cramps though which was the worst of the lot, did you ever have this?

Would you recommend switching to Sust then? And if this is the case… why would endo advise .03 every 3 days… so if they offer 1ml per 3 weeks, that would be a better choice in your opinion

Ah i see, the endo stated ranges that were provided on my results (1.6 - 8.6 IU/L) were actually for womens ovulation cycles, he said anything over 2 in mens is likely abnormal, does this sound accurate?