Yes it is
My endo told me insurance companies don’t like it.
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Worried they can’t bill each time? Why go once when you can go 5 times.
It’s a game, doctors have to follow protocol, steps need to be taken before further testing is allowed. It sickens me how doctors have one hand tied behind their backs, the doctors should have full discretion for treating patients.
The reality is the insurance company is the customer, you’re the product and all these other parties make money off you.
@systemlord i agree drs should be able to do what they need to do with their patients, its a joke needing to get bloods done x 5 times for different things 
Any ideas on the above mate please?
It’s not that. Insurance companies are in business to collect premiums, not to pay claims. Collecting as high of a premium as possible and limiting claim exposure is the goal. Doctors ordering tests or providing treatments indiscriminately is not going to fly.
Years ago, one carrier assigned a manager to oversee network doctors, sorry, providers. This one guy’s license plate was “DR MGR”. Looking at patient demographics, they would determine things like how many chest x-rays should be ordered in a year. Go over that, you are not a cost effective provider. Big data had arrived. I was criticized for ordering a test (too expensive) and as it turned out, the patient had renal cancer.
Every test must be linked with a diagnosis, and that diagnosis must be backed up in the records, justifying the need for the test. Estradiol may not be allowed absent a diagnosis of gynecomastia, or maybe mastalgia.
Here’s another example, did not happen to me, but a friend, a hospitalist. Pregnant patient with blood clots. Insurance carrier determines she’s had enough days in the hospital. The insurance doctor (who works for the insurance carrier and reviews records and denies tests and treatments) is on the phone arguing with the attending regarding the case management. “Look, just put her on some coumadin and send her home!” Response, “if you practice medicine, instead of banking, you know coumadin is contraindicated in pregnancy.”
Talking to many doctors, across many specialties, at post doctoral conferences on hormones and asking them why they are interested in doing this, a very common answer, maybe the most common, is they want out of the insurance system.
I know some in their mid 50s who just got out, ground up by the system. It is not good.
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Years ago I suffered a knife wound, went to the ER and they aggressively tried to push micro nerve surgery due to not being able to feel the top part of my thumb and index finger.
This was at Kaiser back in the early 90’s, today they would prescribe some pain killers and send me packing. This was before having to get stuff authorized by the insurance company.
@systemlord @swoops39 @highpull
Hi lads,
Ok so ive been training a while as stated in 2 x previous post above.
One thing I’m noticing though, is my forearms aching badly, when usually from gym years ago I’d be fine and would repair quicker.
Defo putting muscle on but shoukd i be aching this way, when was younger was not like this, well maybe for a day but feeling it for longer now?
I’ve been advised to give gym a break for a week and then start afresh? So am just taking a break for a week now.
What do you think or could I be making my test worse by training as I am? Like I said I think I need a blood test? So is it best to get an independent one do through medichecks or BMH?
What exactly should i be looking for apart from obvious test increase lads??
What are the signs this is working and what signs making it worse please oh yes im taking tribulus and daspartic acid to see if that helps with feeling horny and raises test a little too if that’s possible? ?
Cheers 
None of this. As I mentioned previously, this sounds like a training/orthopedic issue. I spent many years lifting very heavy weights which resulted in a lot of pain, both with and without the benefit of PEDs. What you describe does not sound hormonal.
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Ok, well i’m taking a week off now so hopefully should definitely be enough time to recover and more I’m just a bit concerned that if after a week i go back and the same happens, then whats the best way to proceed? I can’t do gym without pushing myself a little at least… i took what you said into account and went lower than i should really too, and every 4 weeks go low and then build up again etc…
Taking tribulus and daspartic acid to help, along with some ultra lean protein shake (opt nutrition - isolate) but not arrived as yet, any other recommendations at all please?
I do not know how experienced you are, if you are not it might be a good idea to have someone observe and make sure your technique is correct.
@highpull I used to go to gym and train years ago and have trained with quite a few different people with various techniques and different movements etc, some guys were major gym heads and we used to try and maintain form, so i think my technique is fine to be honest. I’m sure its something else and that’s why i was concerned with maybe doing further damage which may decrease test? It may just be that i’ve done too much too soon and this week off should help but its like a muscle ache from when you train forearms and waiting to repair but taking much longer and then same with legs, what do you think of this lads too? @systemlord @swoops39
Way back when I used to work out etc etc etc … I see this a bunch on the forums. Guys comparing their workouts now to what they were 10 years ago (or whatever number). It’s different now; you’re different now. I’d reach back maybe a year to make comparisons, at best, but that’s just me.
10 years ago I was deadlifting 3 plates while on a 1700 cal diet after a weekend in Vegas on 3 hours sleep … can I do that today, while on TRT? Hell no lol.
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I understand what you’re getting at and i dont expect to do the same as what i did when younger, but what i mean is the substantial aches and how long they last, i. Not expecting to repair in a day or two, but a week is too long. However, i do believe its to do with i’ve started gym up again and even though taking it easy for the first week or so (so dont ache like mad, as ive learned from the past days as a teenager not to do so! 
) the next few weeks i’ve increased and pushed it a little, so im guessing this is just fatigue of muscles and need to use a slow approach, ive gone back to gym after a week off and lifted 40% of what i did and hopefully gradually increase it abd should be ok, aches and pain free… well a little ache is fine 
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Hi guys, ive been gym for a few months since last time now and feel as if put muscle on, however test levels checked lately and dropped to 7.7 apparently??! Can this be just as overdoing it?? Please let me know your thoughts, i might have to get on nebido at this rate as only thing available apart from gels?!
I think you’ve hit a plateau and this is as good as it gets.
Maybe dial things back in the gym a little. Also make sure you’re getting enough rest between workouts.
I think I wrote previously regarding programing training loads. While exercise can help increase testosterone levels, overtraining can decrease them, which may be your situation. I doubt you will ever see decent testosterone levels without TRT.
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I just read through this thread in its entirety and was disappointed to discover the journey led nowhere. Six months and 77 posts later we are still right where we started: complaining about low testosterone levels and not doing anything about it.
I understand what you’re saying, but decided to try change lifestyle to see if that makes a difference without starting TRT, if this was possible to do so which have done for a 4 month period. Started gym, changed diet and tried to improve sleep. I thought that overtraining , under eating or lack of sleep may have caused this dip to increase and test levels fallen further to 7.7. However, my urologist has said its not likely going to have such an impact that woukd impact it that much so im now guessing i have to go ahead with TRT - Nebido at that as its on the NHS, however worried due to the garbage protocol and causing additional issues! So looking at any alternative options also…
I’m nowhere near being an expert on the subject of TRT as are some other members of this forum, but neither ar the docs who are doing all the guesswork, so I’ll offer my opinion based on more or less on my own situation and my extensive reading on the subject.
Unfortunately with your levels you will not see any significant noticeable positive changes to your Testosterone levels. That being said, any positive lifestyle change is commendable regardless of your situation. If you do get on TRT you should resume any positive changes you made which will amplify the positive feeling you get from TRT.
It is really very very hard for a novice working out 2 times a week to wander into overtraining territory. At the start the weights are relatively light, your body is not getting as taxed as it would if you were an intermediate or elite. Being sore and achy isn’t overtraining; more likely there is a problem with your program and lifting technique. Also it’s possible you’re not getting enough food to fuel recovery post-workout. Coupled with shitty sleep and low T levels, you got yourself the perfect recipe for making 0 progress.
You’re better off having low T than getting on that emotional rollercoaster. It’s likely one day that your doc, clueless as he is, may say “you’re all better now, no more TRT necessary!” That’s when the real fun starts!
What I did, and it’s no secret others did as well, was ordered from an underground source, as reputable as they come, and started self medicating. It’s much cheaper, don’t have to go through the distress of convincing any doctors and you can get as much bloodwork in private labs as necessary to make sure you are well within range
You need to get used to it. If you can’t, have your wife stick you. She’ll likely enjoy it.
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