^^Exactly. There is no way that cop could tell in the moment if this woman was going for his gun or not… In that link Waldo posted they stated that only a month or two before this incident there was a similar one with a seattle officer. He was surrounded by a mob (just like in this video) and the mob turned on him. Beat him down and now he has severe brain damage.
.greg.
99 times out of 100 you will be better off treating a cop with respect than not treating him with respect. the other 1 time it will be an indifferent reaction from the officer.
Cops have very hard jobs and honestly don’t get that good of pay.
as was brought out already, jay walking is illegal. meaning they CAN ticket you for it. CAN doesn’t me HAVE TO. Regardless if someone tries to make a case that it is “safer” to cross in the middle of the street. That has nothing to do at all with a law IN PLACE that is just being enforced.
If someone feels that Jaywalking should be legal, go fight for that. Until then it is still illegal.
It is not humanly possible to ticket EVERYONE that goes a mile over the speed limit or ticket EVERY person that jaywalks. That is not even realistic. What is realistic is an officer using their preceptive powers and enforcing the law where they feel it does the most good.
[quote]gregron wrote:
^^Exactly. There is no way that cop could tell in the moment if this woman was going for his gun or not… In that link Waldo posted they stated that only a month or two before this incident there was a similar one with a seattle officer. He was surrounded by a mob (just like in this video) and the mob turned on him. Beat him down and now he has severe brain damage.
.greg.[/quote]
In this video, go to 1:25 and watch to 1:35 a few times. The guy in the hat to the left of the officer, tell me that’s not a gun in his hand. You can see the trigger guard clearly around 1:32.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]waldo21212 wrote:
Here is a better video:
http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/20367994
I don’t know enough about what happened before to comment on the stop, but she should not have shoved/put her hands on him. I’m not sure if the punch was really a necessary amount of force but I wasn’t in the situation and that’s not my call.[/quote]
pretty interesting commentary on the video in your link. Good find
.greg.[/quote]
Credit Loudog with the find - he posted it in another thread first.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]waldo21212 wrote:
Here is a better video:
http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/20367994
I don’t know enough about what happened before to comment on the stop, but she should not have shoved/put her hands on him. I’m not sure if the punch was really a necessary amount of force but I wasn’t in the situation and that’s not my call.[/quote]
It is a better video from the cops point of veiw [/quote]
When I said better I meant longer version of the incident. Yes video also does contain a Seattle police rep defending the actions of the officer.
[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I understand the Cop , but that was 0 to 60 faster than I have ever seen[/quote]
Bingo. The cop’s response wasn’t calculated, it was reflexive. The punch came in way too early in my opinion unless the women were going for his gun.[/quote]
After thinking about this I agree. While I’m not a huge fan of law enforcement I have hung out with a few cops at bars and clubs and when they have been shoved or even just have had people run into them their automatic reflexes kick in to make sure the person can’t get them down.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Do you think illegal drug use is more prevalent among poor or rich neighborhoods?
[/quote]
Do you think that illegal drug use causes more damage in poor or in rich neighborhoods?
[quote]overstand wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
^^Exactly. There is no way that cop could tell in the moment if this woman was going for his gun or not… In that link Waldo posted they stated that only a month or two before this incident there was a similar one with a seattle officer. He was surrounded by a mob (just like in this video) and the mob turned on him. Beat him down and now he has severe brain damage.
.greg.[/quote]
In this video, go to 1:25 and watch to 1:35 a few times. The guy in the hat to the left of the officer, tell me that’s not a gun in his hand. You can see the trigger guard clearly around 1:32.
[/quote]
wow… That really did look like a revolver. I mean you cant really tell what it is but it sure as hell looked like one. Crazy
.greg.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
Here is a little story:
In a small Austrian village there lived a family of illegal aliens.
The police had the cunning plan to catch them and deport them, but because they knew that the village liked them and did not want them to be deported they moved in at around 5.30.
The whole village awaited them and blocked the entrance to the house where this family was living so the police concluded that they really had no other choice than to let it be or try again later.
I guess to some Americans the instinctual reaction is that they should have alarmed a SWAT team, call in air support and level the whole village with artillery strikes to eliminate this nest of isurgency from a safe distance.
[/quote]
Why didn’t the village just offer the cops a small bribe, or tell them to “mind your own business?”
From what I’ve read in the news about Austria, that almost always works.
Oh, any chance there was a young sex slave being held captive in the basement of that house?
That might explain why the Austrian police walked away.
And you’re still nothing more than a bigot.[/quote]
Are you trying to make a point here?
And I would invite you to try and bribe an Austrian police officer.
That should be fun.
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
What is realistic is an officer using their preceptive powers and enforcing the law where they feel it does the most good.
[/quote]
This is the opposite of the whole idea of blind justice. It is not the job of an officer to decide what is good for different people. Or who will be helped by issuing a ticket and who will be helped by not issuing one.
[quote]phaethon wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Do you think illegal drug use is more prevalent among poor or rich neighborhoods?
[/quote]
Do you think that illegal drug use causes more damage in poor or in rich neighborhoods?[/quote]
I’m going to go with it being pretty equal. rich people OD, end up in depression, commit suicide, est. probably at least as much as the poor.
[quote]gregron wrote:
[quote]Loudog75 wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
I dont know if he thought she was going for his weapon or whatever but I was taught never to put my hands on a cop. Guess these chicks never got that lesson
.greg.[/quote]
I was never taught that lesson. I was always taught to respect those that respect you. Tell me, what was the basis for this lesson that you were taught?
Was it that you have to respect the uniform or the person or that cops will “F” you up and get away with it?[/quote]
how were these women being disrespected? For being stopped by an officer for breaking the law? Since when is that disrespect? You have a weak post and even weaker argument.
So your parents sat you down as a kid and said “ok listen here little loudog if you’re ever in a situation and you feel like the person isnt being completely respectful to you, even if you’re breaking the law, then fuck them, be verbally abusive and try to get physical?” I dont think so.
.greg.[/quote]
Let me make it clear. I’m not defending the poor behavior of the two chicks. I think they should have been arrested, I just question the technique used.
I’ve been detained by officers for a few different reasons in my lifetime. A couple for DWB. While they have the athority to pull me over they don’t have the right to disrespect me with that BS and I have no obligation to then be respectful of them.
Story time - Its the NBA finals (Chicago for the win). A couple of my buddies and I are going to their brothers house to watch the game and play some Sega Genesis. We have our TV in the car (cause its bigger than his). We get pulled over because “there have been some robberies in the neighborhood”. Are you serious? Its a Sat/Sun afternoon and you have three black guys in a car with a TV. Yeah they look guilty and so was the cop’s ATTITUDE. I guess we should have been like " Yes Sir, No Sir we’re sorry for being black sir". “F” him and cops like him.
^^And let me make it clear. I respect the job, its a difficult one. But if you don’t have the tolerance, patience or personality for it - don’t do it. Go be a sanitation worker for the city - you don’t have to deal with people and you still get to work for your community.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
What is realistic is an officer using their preceptive powers and enforcing the law where they feel it does the most good.
[/quote]
This is the opposite of the whole idea of blind justice. It is not the job of an officer to decide what is good for different people. Or who will be helped by issuing a ticket and who will be helped by not issuing one.[/quote]
The problem is that it CANNOT be physically enforced on ALL people the law. This makes it necessary to pick and choose who they enforce it with. The problem is, they can’t decide that it isn’t illegal. That isn’t their job. Their job, as describe in part on Wikipedia is as follows:
In the majority of Western legal systems, the major role of the police is to maintain order, keeping the peace through surveillance of the public, and the subsequent reporting and apprehension of suspected violators of the law. They also function to discourage crimes through high-visibility policing, and most police forces have an investigative capability. Police have the legal authority to arrest, usually granted by magistrates. Police officers also respond to emergency calls, along with routine community policing.
In regards to citations, etc:
Police are also responsible for reprimanding minor offenders by issuing citations which typically may result in the imposition of fines, particularly for violations of traffic law. Traffic enforcement is often and effectively accomplished by police officers on motorcycles â?? called motor officers, these officers refer to the motorcycles they ride on duty as simply motors. Police are also trained to assist persons in distress, such motorists whose car has broken down and people experiencing a medical emergency. Police are typically trained in basic First aid such as CPR.
They have to use their own training to decide which of the times they feel would be best to enforce the laws, as it isn’t possible to enforce them all the time. It isn’t a perfect system, but I am sure that you and everyone else are glad they are not ticketed EVERYTIME they go 1 mile over the speed limit, etc.
There are a couple people here that seem to share the belief that police have to be respectful and polite to them no matter how they are behaving. It’s like the saying goes…police are here to save your ass, not kiss it. Nowhere in the job description does it say police are here to be polite and courteous to every single jackass they come across.
Your attitude goes a long way in determining how you are treated. You definitely don’t have to follow blindly and kiss ass, however being polite as you would with any other person will generally ensure the police officer shows you respect and treats you fairly.
And actually yes, we do have discretion with who we charge and who we don’t. For me, if someone is a good person, and does not have a record of victimizing others and is not a total asshole I will let them go. However if someone acts like an asshole, they are going to get treated like one.
So generally, how you get treated is all about how you act towards the police. Be polite (doesn’t mean you have to kiss ass) and you will be treated fairly, be rude and obnoxious and you will likely be treated in a similar fashion. Police are human…don’t expect them to act like robots.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
What is realistic is an officer using their preceptive powers and enforcing the law where they feel it does the most good.
[/quote]
This is the opposite of the whole idea of blind justice. It is not the job of an officer to decide what is good for different people. Or who will be helped by issuing a ticket and who will be helped by not issuing one.[/quote]
Duce,
What you are proposing is impossible. There are not enough hours in a day or enough officers on the street to engage in what you are proposing. You are equating “blind justice” with “zero tolerance”. I am assuming here and correct me if I am wrong, but your intent is to essentially remove discretion from officers in how they do their job as an extension of your distrust of the profession. That is impossible but if some how it were to be tried, the unintended consequences would be horrific. In fact, some sneaky politicians have used that argument to justify traffic cameras that automatically record violators for red light infractions and speeding. You don’t want to go down that road.
Police discretion is deeply rooted in US law and allows for an examination of the circumstances at hand. Was I wrong for letting a girl go the other day who was speeding to get to the hospital because her grandmother wasn’t long for this world? A “blind justice” approach would have to say “yes”. This also includes the practice of targeting specific problem areas to dissuade or modify behavior(which, by the way, is the true purpose of criminal and motor vehicle law).
We’re starting to move away from the discussion at hand but fail to see where you are coming from with this.
I can not speak for every one , but I have also been disrespected by our police as well . I can understand how cops put themselves into a position to have to punch people . The times I felt abused by the police , if not for an education knowing I may win the battle but there is no way to win the war. I could have went there .
I think they have to get back to being PEACE officers and away from a para military . I would like to see that cops personel records and if I were his boss I would have to mention the incident in his records . And if they don’t mention this in his records all the records are worthless
[quote]trevor16 wrote:
There are a couple people here that seem to share the belief that police have to be respectful and polite to them no matter how they are behaving. It’s like the saying goes…police are here to save your ass, not kiss it. Nowhere in the job description does it say police are here to be polite and courteous to every single jackass they come across.
Your attitude goes a long way in determining how you are treated. You definitely don’t have to follow blindly and kiss ass, however being polite as you would with any other person will generally ensure the police officer shows you respect and treats you fairly.
And actually yes, we do have discretion with who we charge and who we don’t. For me, if someone is a good person, and does not have a record of victimizing others and is not a total asshole I will let them go. However if someone acts like an asshole, they are going to get treated like one.
So generally, how you get treated is all about how you act towards the police. Be polite (doesn’t mean you have to kiss ass) and you will be treated fairly, be rude and obnoxious and you will likely be treated in a similar fashion. Police are human…don’t expect them to act like robots. [/quote]
My point was that no matter hoe repectful your are to some police they show you the standard disrepect and there is ZERO recourse . You are wrong about always being treated fairly by the police . Some of them are so used to treating people in the manner that get’s the results they like , they forget they are dealing with people with feelings and a temper