^^hahaha yeah so did I
.greg.
[quote]gregron wrote:
So is your question:
Is it wrong to not cross in a crosswalk? (which is what I believe you were saying?
or
Is it safer to not cross in a crosswalk?
.greg.[/quote]
is it wrong?
after watching that and thinking about it , two words come to mind , excessive force. If I were a lawyer I would be looking this womaan up so we could sew the dog shit of of the cops , so I could make both Dmaddox and pat a nice sweater:)
Don’t you know pigs have to knock out little women if they feel irritated? He was just being a pig.
Respect is a two way street however one individual has a job to do and the other does not. I believe the cop needs to be the individual that keeps a cooler head and I struggle to understand why punching the woman in the face is reasonable use of force.
If the guy can’t subdue two women, he probably should keep a desk job.
Lastly, I’ve only run into two types of cops - Good Cops and Bad Cops. The good cops are the guys that appear to respect citizens no matter what demographic. The bad cops seem to be the ones who want to wave their athority and or have little big man syndrome. I want to like cops, I really do but its crap like this that keep me pessimistic.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Cop asks you to do something like stop and talk or come down to the station, you don’t give him lip, you don’t get physical, you fucking go to the station. [/quote]
Really!!!
I think this comment is so absurd that I’m at a loss for words.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
And as I’ve explained, I logically think j-walking is safer.[/quote]
Here is the crux. J-walking for the individual at that moment, assuming they are not wearing headphones, look both ways before crossing, does not trip… may be safer that one time. But if everyone jay walked in an area with high pedestrian and car traffic, or even just high car (especially high speed) traffic, then you will have issues. The pedestrians and the drivers need to be able to rely on the others behavior. Walkers do not dart out into traffic, car stop appropriately, do not drive onto sidewalk, etc. That is for everyone’s safety. Predictability of action is what allows for traffic to flow. That said, accidents happen but rarely when everyone is doing what they are supposed to be doing - and in those cases there may be mechanical failures.
Laws are written to establish cultural norms in behavior so that there is some predictability in this. (Imagine if there were no traffic laws). Cops enforce these laws.[/quote]
So I’m wrong to more safely cross away from intersections because its bad for society?[/quote]
If none of the potential drivers involved act in a way not in accordance with the law, than you are just as safe, if not safer, to cross at the intersection. If something goes wrong and you cross in the street, your fault. Cross at the intersection, their fault. You could look at it as, who would I rather pay the medical bills?
There exists in society a tension between what is expedient for the individual now (what best meets your present needs) to what is expected in conforming with society. Basically the whole individual verse community thing. Not everyone agrees on the best balance nor are the outcomes always clear.[/quote]
And that dependence on others got you hit by a car.
Answer the question, am I wrong to cross away from intersections?[/quote]
You just donte get it, do you?
It is not that laws must serve a purpose, you must serve the law.
If you dont those impure tendencies must be purged from your soul and if that is not possible you must be purged from society.
Obedience is freedom.
[/quote]
I don’t think I want that type of freedom.
[quote]Loudog75 wrote:
Respect is a two way street however one individual has a job to do and the other does not. I believe the cop needs to be the individual that keeps a cooler head and I struggle to understand why punching the woman in the face is reasonable use of force.
If the guy can’t subdue two women, he probably should keep a desk job.
Lastly, I’ve only run into two types of cops - Good Cops and Bad Cops. The good cops are the guys that appear to respect citizens no matter what demographic. The bad cops seem to be the ones who want to wave their athority and or have little big man syndrome. I want to like cops, I really do but its crap like this that keep me pessimistic.[/quote]
preach it bro:)
[quote]gregron wrote:
I dont know if he thought she was going for his weapon or whatever but I was taught never to put my hands on a cop. Guess these chicks never got that lesson
.greg.[/quote]
I was never taught that lesson. I was always taught to respect those that respect you. Tell me, what was the basis for this lesson that you were taught?
Was it that you have to respect the uniform or the person or that cops will “F” you up and get away with it?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
And as I’ve explained, I logically think j-walking is safer.[/quote]
Here is the crux. J-walking for the individual at that moment, assuming they are not wearing headphones, look both ways before crossing, does not trip… may be safer that one time. But if everyone jay walked in an area with high pedestrian and car traffic, or even just high car (especially high speed) traffic, then you will have issues. The pedestrians and the drivers need to be able to rely on the others behavior. Walkers do not dart out into traffic, car stop appropriately, do not drive onto sidewalk, etc. That is for everyone’s safety. Predictability of action is what allows for traffic to flow. That said, accidents happen but rarely when everyone is doing what they are supposed to be doing - and in those cases there may be mechanical failures.
Laws are written to establish cultural norms in behavior so that there is some predictability in this. (Imagine if there were no traffic laws). Cops enforce these laws.[/quote]
So I’m wrong to more safely cross away from intersections because its bad for society?[/quote]
If none of the potential drivers involved act in a way not in accordance with the law, than you are just as safe, if not safer, to cross at the intersection. If something goes wrong and you cross in the street, your fault. Cross at the intersection, their fault. You could look at it as, who would I rather pay the medical bills?
There exists in society a tension between what is expedient for the individual now (what best meets your present needs) to what is expected in conforming with society. Basically the whole individual verse community thing. Not everyone agrees on the best balance nor are the outcomes always clear.[/quote]
And that dependence on others got you hit by a car.
Answer the question, am I wrong to cross away from intersections?[/quote]
We depend on the actions or nonaction of others in ways we never consider. In fact, most of what we do involves a tacit agreement between members of a society.
Whether you are right or wrong depends on how you want to define the question. Because I try to leave room for context and perspective, there are too many variables to just ignore in making a blanket statement about right or wrong. If no one is impacted by your action, does it matter (this goes beyond just yourself and drivers, it can include a small child seeing what you do and assuming that to do the same would be safe). If someone is impacted, do you feel guilty and was your actions legal. Sometimes we lead by example even if we do not think anyone is watching.
The thing is, laws are made and cops are trained to enforce them so that we as individuals do not have to have this type of conversation before we do anything. Sometimes we confuse repression of rights with being inconvenienced.
[quote]Loudog75 wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
I dont know if he thought she was going for his weapon or whatever but I was taught never to put my hands on a cop. Guess these chicks never got that lesson
.greg.[/quote]
I was never taught that lesson. I was always taught to respect those that respect you. Tell me, what was the basis for this lesson that you were taught?
Was it that you have to respect the uniform or the person or that cops will “F” you up and get away with it?[/quote]
I heard on the news that one if not both of the accused have prior convictions of assault on an officer.
Sometimes you have to show some respect before you get it. It amazes me (and I not accusing you of this) of the number of people who demand respect, or what they deem respect, from ‘hello’ without ever consider that they have to act respectful as well - and maybe continue to for a little while to earn some respect.
Bear in mind that cops deal with a lot of crap, being respectful can make a big difference on how you are treated.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
So is your question:
Is it wrong to not cross in a crosswalk? (which is what I believe you were saying?
or
Is it safer to not cross in a crosswalk?
.greg.[/quote]
is it wrong?[/quote]
its illegal so I guess yeah its wrong. Breaking the law is wrong
.greg.
[quote]Loudog75 wrote:
[quote]gregron wrote:
I dont know if he thought she was going for his weapon or whatever but I was taught never to put my hands on a cop. Guess these chicks never got that lesson
.greg.[/quote]
I was never taught that lesson. I was always taught to respect those that respect you. Tell me, what was the basis for this lesson that you were taught?
Was it that you have to respect the uniform or the person or that cops will “F” you up and get away with it?[/quote]
how were these women being disrespected? For being stopped by an officer for breaking the law? Since when is that disrespect? You have a weak post and even weaker argument.
So your parents sat you down as a kid and said “ok listen here little loudog if you’re ever in a situation and you feel like the person isnt being completely respectful to you, even if you’re breaking the law, then fuck them, be verbally abusive and try to get physical?” I dont think so.
.greg.
[quote]Loudog75 wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Cop asks you to do something like stop and talk or come down to the station, you don’t give him lip, you don’t get physical, you fucking go to the station. [/quote]
Really!!!
I think this comment is so absurd that I’m at a loss for words.
[/quote]
whats so absurd about this statement? you honestly dont really have a choice if an officer wants to stop you or question you so you might as well do it politely and be cooperative.
.greg.
Here is a better video:
http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/20367994
I don’t know enough about what happened before to comment on the stop, but she should not have shoved/put her hands on him. I’m not sure if the punch was really a necessary amount of force but I wasn’t in the situation and that’s not my call.
[quote]waldo21212 wrote:
Here is a better video:
http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/20367994
I don’t know enough about what happened before to comment on the stop, but she should not have shoved/put her hands on him. I’m not sure if the punch was really a necessary amount of force but I wasn’t in the situation and that’s not my call.[/quote]
pretty interesting commentary on the video in your link. Good find
.greg.
[quote]waldo21212 wrote:
Here is a better video:
http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/20367994
I don’t know enough about what happened before to comment on the stop, but she should not have shoved/put her hands on him. I’m not sure if the punch was really a necessary amount of force but I wasn’t in the situation and that’s not my call.[/quote]
It is a better video from the cops point of veiw
the first video didnt show all of the womens aggression towards the cop or how she kept trying to fight him the whole time. Then it comes out that both of these women have been involved in assault cases with officers… Yeah didnt make them look like innocent j walkers.
.greg.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]trevor16 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Dustin wrote:
This all happened because of jay-walking? Seriously?
One would think that a cop would have better things to do than to harass jay-walkers.[/quote]
This is what I was thinking. I can almost guarantee the cop was being an ass to begin with. Once in the situation though, I don’t think it was wrong to punch her.[/quote]
Because it’s always the cops fault and citizens would never, ever do something without provocation?
I don’t know how someone can make a “guarantee” about something knowing absolutely no details of the incident. Just because you may be reasonable and would not do what this woman did unless the cop was being an ass, doesn’t mean everyone you see on the internet is a reasonable, sensible person. [/quote]
I never made a guarantee. There was a word in my post that made a qualification. You must have missed it.
Next, I never made any of the claims you accuse me of. Just because you like to hump fire hydrants, doesn’t mean everyone does.
I do know some things as fact. The confrontation was over j-walking. A cop has no right to do anything to anyone (even assholes) without reasonable cause. J-walking is not reasonable cause in my book. A police officer approaching someone on the subject of j-walking is utter BS. It’s like pulling someone over because they were going 2 miles an hour over the speed limit.
The reason I can almost guarantee he was being an ass is because there is apparently no reasonable explanation for the initiation of the contact. Can you think of a better explanation?
I never said the women were being reasonable or sensible, but it isn’t against the law to not be. I also said that he was right to punch her for laying hands on him (much the way I wish the student would have punched the congressman for grabbing him).
Learn to read. Learn to think.[/quote]
wrong. In Columbus, Ohio a few years back I was on the medical staff at the Arnold Classic. I was tired and zoned out after a long day at work and was not paying attention. I crossed a busy street and was going against a green light on a busy downtown street.
I was stopped by the cops, actually pulled over. he asked me for driver’s license and asked me why I was jaywalking. I was polite and gave him a straight up I was wrong explanation. He called in my license, saw I was not a fugitive and gave me a warning, explaining how me getting run over would ruin a lot of people’s days.
I was thankful and thanked him for the break. In certain areas jaywalking is a big deal. hit a person and there are insurance bills, lawsuits etc. Then the first thing everyone complains about is that the cops were not doing their job.
[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I understand the Cop , but that was 0 to 60 faster than I have ever seen[/quote]
Bingo. The cop’s response wasn’t calculated, it was reflexive. The punch came in way too early in my opinion unless the women were going for his gun.[/quote]
Touching a cop can and probably should be construed as going for a gun. A guy gets knocked out and it’s pretty easy to get his gun.