Ryan Kennelly's 1036lb Bench Press!

Training Powerlifting
182

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
If someone posted a thread saying “New home run record!”… and you opened it to find that it was a softball home run record, would you at least be tempted to suggest that a more honest title would be “New softball home run record!”?[/quote]
Where is this coming from? This thread isn’t titled “New Bench Record.” It’s titled “Ryan Kennelly’s 1036lb Bench Press!” If you find that misleading, it’s only because you don’t know who Kennelly is, and, again, that’s not the sport’s problem.

This is the same as complaining about a thread titled “Barry Bonds hits 73 homeruns!” and expecting it to be about a softball record. The title has the athlete’s name listed and that should be a dead give away as to which sport is being discussed. In this case it’s equipped lifting.

[quote]
I’m just an advocate of honesty. And yes, calling a raw bench and a geared bench both “bench press” is dishonest.[/quote]

It’s no more dishonest than both softball and baseball using the term “homerun” (among many others). It’s no more dishonest than calling a made basket in basketball and a kick in football a field goal. Many sports use the same or similar terms. How is that dishonest?

[quote]
Consider the guy who falls asleep in the same bed as a girl he’s hooking up with at a party, and lets everyone read into him saying “We slept together” as they wish. Sure, he isnt lying, but he knows they’re interpreting it differently. Gear advocates KNOW people are going to interpret “XXX bench press” as “raw XXX bench press” unless otherwise noted. [/quote]

Why the hell would people interpret it that way? I know of no geared lifters that try to pass off their lifts as RAW. The only people who would possibly interpret things that way are people completely clueless about powerlifting. And if they are clueless, they probably don’t care about the sport anyway, so why cater to them? If they do care, they would take the time educate themselves.

[quote]
But sure, why should that guy care if people dont know that by “sleep” he means “entered a state of unconciousness” and not “sexual intercourse”… sure sure, it just happens to make him look like a stud and gets him some cheap admiration from his friends… but its not his fault, so why should he go out of his way to clear things up… right? [/quote]

Again, no credible lifter is going to try pass their lifts as RAW. Your analogy is just dumb.

[quote]
Just like geared lifters shouldnt care that most people will assume it was a raw lift… sure, sure, it just happens to make him sound a lot stronger, but… (and please dont argue that a person with a 1000 pound raw bench is not stronger than a person with a 1000 pound shirted bench).

Would it really be that hard to just call it a geared bench press? Its one extra word.[/quote]

Why? Why should the sport cater to those who don’t care enough to find out the difference between a raw and shirted lift? The only people that make a big deal of this are the ones with no real interest in powerlifting, and are not going to contribute to the sport in any way, shape, or form. I wouldn’t care what these people think either.

Instead, why don’t the RAW lifters call their lift a RAW bench press? Oh wait – they already do. So what’s the problem?

You seem to have this misconception that lifters are just flat out lying and claiming their lifts as RAW. I have never seen or heard of this happening.

183

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
On the other end of things, I’d be my left arm that if something happened that brought the numbers down, the same people who dont go out of their way to denote a geared lift vs raw would be QUICK to point out the difference.

Lets say, just for example, all the federations decide that instead of the squat, lifters will perform an overhead squat. Since an overhead squat is always going to be less than a persons back squat… do you think they would want to continue calling the event simply “squat”? Or do you think they would push to have the event correctly named “overhead squat”?

I think they’d call it their “overhead squat” every single time they ever talked about the lift.

I bet they’d care a whole lot what the “non-lifting community understands” if a change was made that deflated their numbers instead of inflating them.[/quote]

After reading this, I regret responding to any of your posts. If you think what you typed here makes any sense, I really feel sorry for you.

184

[quote]malonetd wrote:

You seem to have this misconception that lifters are just flat out lying and claiming their lifts as RAW. I have never seen or heard of this happening.[/quote]

No, they’re not “flat out lying”… they just (suprisingly) dont feel the need to go out of their way to clear up misconceptions, when those misconceptions just “happen” to make them look really, really good.

Now, if a misconception made them look bad, i.e. the overhead squat analogy, they’d certainly clear up that misconception for everyone.

Why are you making such a big deal out of the suggestion that a geared bench press be called “the geared bench press”?

185

[quote]malonetd wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
On the other end of things, I’d be my left arm that if something happened that brought the numbers down, the same people who dont go out of their way to denote a geared lift vs raw would be QUICK to point out the difference.

Lets say, just for example, all the federations decide that instead of the squat, lifters will perform an overhead squat. Since an overhead squat is always going to be less than a persons back squat… do you think they would want to continue calling the event simply “squat”? Or do you think they would push to have the event correctly named “overhead squat”?

I think they’d call it their “overhead squat” every single time they ever talked about the lift.

I bet they’d care a whole lot what the “non-lifting community understands” if a change was made that deflated their numbers instead of inflating them.

After reading this, I regret responding to any of your posts. If you think what you typed here makes any sense, I really feel sorry for you.[/quote]

It makes perfect sense.

When someone wins something, they’re reluctant to mention any help they had. When someone loses something, they’re quick to point out whatever made it difficult for them.

Lets say theres a basketball game, and on one team 3 of the best players are just getting over being sick and obviously arent playing at their best. The sick team loses.

If you ask a player from the winning team about the game, they’ll probably just say “We won.” and not “We won, and their best guys werent in top shape for the game.” Why? Because its less impressive. The same way its less impressive to hear “xxx geared bench press” instead of “xxx bench press”.

Now, if you asked someone from the losing team, they’d likely say “We lost, but our 3 best guys were just getting over being sick.” They’d be much more likely to point out the disadvantage they were at.

Refusing to call it a geared bench press (I know, I know, remembering to say one 6 letter word before “bench press” is so difficult) is sort of like being one of the former teammates in the analogy; sure you arent “lying”… but you are omitting a major factor that works towards your advantage in order to seem more impressive to anyone who isnt aware of that advantage. That, to me, is dishonest, even if its not “flat out lying”.

186

I can continue making analogies to illustrate the point that its dishonest to silently allow people to misinterpret things in a way that makes you look good (especially when you’d clear up any misinterpretations that put you in an unfavorable light).

And you can tell me about how gay the analogies are or how they make no sense, blah blah blah, but the point still stands.

Refusing to do something as simple as putting the word “geared” before “bench press” when the person performing the exercise is wearing a bench shirt, is dishonest.

Its funny, the same advocates that say the pros are proud of their gear treat the gear like a dirty little family secret they dont want to be reminded of, and certainly cant be bothered to remind others of.

187

[quote]Antman517 wrote:
shandwill wrote:
orangecola wrote:

  1. I think it is interesting that you singled Kara out, seeing as she is Ryan Kennelly’s wife.

Check your facts…she is not his wife.

[/quote]

My apologies. Last time I saw her compete, they were still together.

188

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Its funny, the same advocates that say the pros are proud of their gear treat the gear like a dirty little family secret they dont want to be reminded of, and certainly cant be bothered to remind others of. [/quote]

They problem is, you just don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Show me one – ONE! – geared lifter who hides the fact he competes equipped. You can’t.

People aren’t lying about their lifts. Geared lifters LOVE to talk gear. No one is treating it like a “dirty little family secret.” You already admitted to not being a fan of powerlifting, so where the hell are you suddenly getting all this knowledge of people concealing their gear? Quit making shit up.

189

[quote]malonetd wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Its funny, the same advocates that say the pros are proud of their gear treat the gear like a dirty little family secret they dont want to be reminded of, and certainly cant be bothered to remind others of.

They problem is, you just don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Show me one – ONE! – geared lifter who hides the fact he competes equipped. You can’t.

People aren’t lying about their lifts. Geared lifters LOVE to talk gear. No one is treating it like a “dirty little family secret.” You already admitted to not being a fan of powerlifting, so where the hell are you suddenly getting all this knowledge of people concealing their gear? Quit making shit up.[/quote]

The root of the problem, imo, is that a non-powerlifter/non-powerlifting fan is trying to decide how the sport should be controlled.

Anybody who’s even remotely familiar with powerlifting would have instantly know Kennellys lift was shirted.

Same way that anyone familiar with weightlifing would say something out his squat coming out of his clean or snatch, no need to mention “front” or “overhead” because it’s implied.

which brings me nicely to replaching the squat with an overhead squat but still calling it the same thing. When the mechanics of the lift aren’t even similar it’s neccessary to call them different things. It’s like saying oh yeah a hand powercleans basically a curl cos the same thing’s happening with the bar.

When it comes down to it, you don’t compete, you don’t care about the sport, you display basic (at best) knowledge and have absolutely no comprehension of what goes into trainnig for a meet. Raw OR Geared.

All you’re doing is being overly pedantic in the hopes that people who don’t know what shirts do in powerlifting will be appeased and it will some how make the sport more “credible” and acceptable.

I guess the implication is we should attempt to change the rules and how the lifts are performed in the hopes that someone who MIGHT have a passing interest in the sport gets involved?

So you wanna fuck with the powerlifters and their sport in an attempt to get people who don’t know what the fcuk they’re doing into it?

And you wonder why you’re catching so much flak.

190

[quote]malonetd wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Its funny, the same advocates that say the pros are proud of their gear treat the gear like a dirty little family secret they dont want to be reminded of, and certainly cant be bothered to remind others of.

They problem is, you just don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. Show me one – ONE! – geared lifter who hides the fact he competes equipped. You can’t.

People aren’t lying about their lifts. Geared lifters LOVE to talk gear. No one is treating it like a “dirty little family secret.” You already admitted to not being a fan of powerlifting, so where the hell are you suddenly getting all this knowledge of people concealing their gear? Quit making shit up.[/quote]

I’m not making anything up. The lift is a geared bench press, but its still referred to just as the “bench press”. This is misleading.

191

[quote]Hanley wrote:

The root of the problem, imo, is that a non-powerlifter/non-powerlifting fan is trying to decide how the sport should be controlled.
[/quote]

Nobody is saying that people cant use gear. Just call a geared bench a geared bench. Whats so hard about that? Why is it so difficult to just call the damn lift what it is?

[quote]

Anybody who’s even remotely familiar with powerlifting would have instantly know Kennellys lift was shirted.

Same way that anyone familiar with weightlifing would say something out his squat coming out of his clean or snatch, no need to mention “front” or “overhead” because it’s implied.

which brings me nicely to replaching the squat with an overhead squat but still calling it the same thing. [b]When the mechanics of the lift aren’t even similar it’s neccessary to call them different things.[/b] It’s like saying oh yeah a hand powercleans basically a curl cos the same thing’s happening with the bar.

When it comes down to it, you don’t compete, you don’t care about the sport, you display basic (at best) knowledge and have absolutely no comprehension of what goes into trainnig for a meet. Raw OR Geared.

All you’re doing is being overly pedantic in the hopes that people who don’t know what shirts do in powerlifting will be appeased and it will some how make the sport more “credible” and acceptable.

I guess the implication is we should attempt to change the rules and how the lifts are performed in the hopes that someone who MIGHT have a passing interest in the sport gets involved?

So you wanna fuck with the powerlifters and their sport in an attempt to get people who don’t know what the fcuk they’re doing into it?

And you wonder why you’re catching so much flak.[/quote]

hahahaha. Wow.

Read that sentence that I bolded.

Even among your usual baseless personal attacks, you agree with me.

The mechanics of a geared bench press are different enough from a bench press that the lift should be called the geared bench press.

There should be two seperate records. One for the bench press. One for the geared bench press.

192

Explain how the mechanics are different?

And please point out my “baseless” attacks.

193

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
I’m not making anything up. The lift is a geared bench press, but its still referred to just as the “bench press”. This is misleading.[/quote]

The only people that think it’s “misleading” are non-fans like you. You keep ignoring this fact. No sport is ever going to cater to, or change its terminology for non-fans. Why is this so difficult for you to understand? Why have you continuously ignored this concept throughout this “debate”? There is nothing misleading about a sport using a term it has always used.

I really hope you are consistent in your line of thinking and criticize all other sports in the same manner. Because damn near everything you have complained about applies to all other sports.

194

[quote]Hanley wrote:
Explain how the mechanics are different?

And please point out my “baseless” attacks.[/quote]

How are the mecanics of a geared bench press different than a bench press?

You’re joking, right. You dont seriously need me to explain how the mechanics are different, do you?

You cant possibly be arguing that the mechanics of the lift are the same. I will not allow myself to believe that you are that stupid.

Please, stop saying stupid things.

195

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Explain how the mechanics are different?

And please point out my “baseless” attacks.

How are the mecanics of a geared bench press different than a bench press?

You’re joking, right. You dont seriously need me to explain how the mechanics are different, do you?

You cant possibly be arguing that the mechanics of the lift are the same. I will not allow myself to believe that you are that stupid.

Please, stop saying stupid things. [/quote]

Sorry, who’s making personal attacks?

I think people who lift both raw and in shirts are most qualified to answer the following question but since you seem to be au fait with the theory behind competitive benching I guess you’re qualified.

See I was always under the impression that when you benched you had to lower the bar to your chest (sternum - IPF). Obviously when you’re in a shirt you won’t do it very easily without tucking your elbows some what. This can also be done raw and one could make the argument that it’s MORE important raw since the lats assist in the initial push off the chest.

Then you press the bar up and back as you flare your elbows to lockout. How does this differ from a shirted bench? And please don’t confine your argument to multi ply benching. Explain how it is different to single ply benching also.

196

[quote]malonetd wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
I’m not making anything up. The lift is a geared bench press, but its still referred to just as the “bench press”. This is misleading.

The only people that think it’s “misleading” are non-fans like you. You keep ignoring this fact. No sport is ever going to cater to, or change its terminology for non-fans. Why is this so difficult for you to understand? Why have you continuously ignored this concept throughout this “debate”? There is nothing misleading about a sport using a term it has always used.

I really hope you are consistent in your line of thinking and criticize all other sports in the same manner. Because damn near everything you have complained about applies to all other sports.[/quote]

I’ve ignored the concept because its just a form of poor, circular logic on your part. According to you, people who don’t lift shouldnt have an opinion about it (unless their opinion matches yours… then its ok).

Not only that, you “dont understand why raw lifters have a problem with it”. I suppose, since they dont use gear, they shouldnt have an opinion about gear either.

So, clearly, the only people who’s opinion of gear you care about are… geared lifters! And…hmmmm… I wonder… what are geared lifters opinions on gear going to be… ?

Hmmm.

Sounds like you only want to listen to people who agree with you, and will find any way to discredit the opinions of anyone who disagrees.

I hope you follow your own advice/logic and only have opinions about things you are personally involved in. I hope you have no opinions about politics (unless you’ve been in some form of office), I hope you have no opinions about women (since you aren’t one), no opinions about criminals (since you arent one) etc, etc. The same way I should have no opinions about powerlifting since I’m not a powerlifter… right?

See, Mal, “being a part of it” isnt required to have an opinion on something. So, please, drop that little fallacy from your head and try to argue your point without the ad hominems, ok?

197

[quote]Hanley wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Explain how the mechanics are different?

And please point out my “baseless” attacks.

How are the mecanics of a geared bench press different than a bench press?

You’re joking, right. You dont seriously need me to explain how the mechanics are different, do you?

You cant possibly be arguing that the mechanics of the lift are the same. I will not allow myself to believe that you are that stupid.

Please, stop saying stupid things.

Sorry, who’s making personal attacks?

I think people who lift both raw and in shirts are most qualified to answer the following question but since you seem to be au fait with the theory behind competitive benching I guess you’re qualified.

See I was always under the impression that when you benched you had to lower the bar to your chest (sternum - IPF). Obviously when you’re in a shirt you won’t do it very easily without tucking your elbows some what. This can also be done raw and one could make the argument that it’s MORE important raw since the lats assist in the initial push off the chest.

Then you press the bar up and back as you flare your elbows to lockout. How does this differ from a shirted bench? And please don’t confine your argument to multi ply benching. Explain how it is different to single ply benching also.[/quote]

Well, uh, in one you have a shirt helping you lift the weight.

In the other, you dont.

…still dont see the difference?

Or are you going to argue that the shirt doesnt help lift the weight?

198

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

Well, uh, in one you have a shirt helping you lift the weight.

In the other, you dont.

…still dont see the difference?

Or are you going to argue that the shirt doesnt help lift the weight?[/quote]

No I’m not. But the mechanics of the lift are the still the same.

You have to use your muscles to push the bar.

You don’t just let the weight fall on you and then decide to start lifting when you get near to lockout.

Is that what you think happens with shirts???

199

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

I hope you follow your own advice/logic and only have opinions about things you are personally involved in. I hope you have no opinions about politics (unless you’ve been in some form of office), I hope you have no opinions about women (since you aren’t one), no opinions about criminals (since you arent one) etc, etc. The same way I should have no opinions about powerlifting since I’m not a powerlifter… right?
[/quote]

You want to talk about flawed logic??

Politics effects each and everyone of us. It makes perfect sense to have an interest and opinion about that.

Same goes for criminals. Or maybe by your reasoning since he isn’t a criminal he’s not effected by them?

As for women, they play a big role in a fully functioning society. It is wise to have an opinion on how to act and treat them so that we can live in a harmonius world.

Does powerlifting effect your life?

Is a bench shirt going to rob your car?

If you suck up to a bench shirt is it going to make sure you get a promotion at the office?

200

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
malonetd wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
I’m not making anything up. The lift is a geared bench press, but its still referred to just as the “bench press”. This is misleading.

The only people that think it’s “misleading” are non-fans like you. You keep ignoring this fact. No sport is ever going to cater to, or change its terminology for non-fans. Why is this so difficult for you to understand? Why have you continuously ignored this concept throughout this “debate”? There is nothing misleading about a sport using a term it has always used.

I really hope you are consistent in your line of thinking and criticize all other sports in the same manner. Because damn near everything you have complained about applies to all other sports.

I’ve ignored the concept because its just a form of poor, circular logic on your part. According to you, people who don’t lift shouldnt have an opinion about it (unless their opinion matches yours… then its ok).

Not only that, you “dont understand why raw lifters have a problem with it”. I suppose, since they dont use gear, they shouldnt have an opinion about gear either.

So, clearly, the only people who’s opinion of gear you care about are… geared lifters! And…hmmmm… I wonder… what are geared lifters opinions on gear going to be… ?

Hmmm.

Sounds like you only want to listen to people who agree with you, and will find any way to discredit the opinions of anyone who disagrees.

I hope you follow your own advice/logic and only have opinions about things you are personally involved in. I hope you have no opinions about politics (unless you’ve been in some form of office), I hope you have no opinions about women (since you aren’t one), no opinions about criminals (since you arent one) etc, etc. The same way I should have no opinions about powerlifting since I’m not a powerlifter… right?

See, Mal, “being a part of it” isnt required to have an opinion on something. So, please, drop that little fallacy from your head and try to argue your point without the ad hominems, ok?
[/quote]

Wow, you are lost. Can you read? I never said you couldn’t have an opinion. Have all the opinions you want, just don’t expect a sport you don’t care about to change to fit you.

Read that last sentence again.

One more time.

Now, have a friend read it and explain it to you. Make sense yet? It’s like that in almost every aspect of life. No one is going to change a thing for someone who doesn’t care, regardless of what their opinion is.

I really can’t understand how or why you are so lost on this. You threw logic out the window long ago. You want a separate record for RAW and geared lifting? Boom! Already done. You want a different name for RAW and geared lifts? It doesn’t need one since almost anyone with even a tiny clue of powerlifting will know whether the lift was RAW or geared. What the hell is this issue?

Oh yeah. It’s misleading. It’s dishonest NO IT’S NOT! Maybe to an idiot. You come off as the kind of person that needs a warning on his coffee to remind that it’s hot. Or a warning that plastic bags are not a toy. If you would just use your head and a little common sense, you would know if a lift was geared of RAW. Just like a grocery bag – most people just know to keep it off their head.

Also, please don’t make assumptions. It makes you look silly.[quote]
I hope you have no opinions about politics (unless you’ve been in some form of office), I hope you have no opinions about women (since you aren’t one), no opinions about criminals (since you arent one) etc, etc. [/quote]
Two of the above actually do apply to me, ass.

201

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Well, uh, in one you have a shirt helping you lift the weight.

In the other, you dont.

…still dont see the difference?

Or are you going to argue that the shirt doesnt help lift the weight?[/quote]

No one is arguing that, but, uh, where exactly is the difference in mechanics here? Moron.