Overall best DVD buy has to be Steve Cotter’s Encyclopedia of KB’s. It’s $100, but that’s 7 hours of footage on 5 DVDs, and includes basic program design in the package. Every variation of every lift you can think of is on there.
[quote]Roo Boy wrote:
I would like to know how to structure them into a program.[/quote]
what kind of program? i don’t get it. use them for active recovery - do a set of 30 kb swings. use them for variation of a standard lift - substitute in for a standing military press. use them for conditioning - do EDT style kb snatches for 5 or 10 or 15 minutes.
they are simply a tool.
i don’t understand how people can be so negatively polarized against the use of them.
absorb what is useful. reject what is useless. (i totally just made that up.)
[quote]Pete Ross wrote:
Overall best DVD buy has to be Steve Cotter’s Encyclopedia of KB’s. It’s $100, but that’s 7 hours of footage on 5 DVDs, and includes basic program design in the package. Every variation of every lift you can think of is on there.[/quote]
negative ghost rider … it’s 7 hours, but … it’s 7 HOURS … 7 hours of anything is too much … steve is a great guy who is on top of the game, but most people don’t need 7 hours of kettlebell instruction … i suggest a mahler dvd
[quote]The Grizz wrote:
Mate. You are a dickhead.
Don’t lament your purchase. Just put it with your BOSU, ab roller and EAS supplements.
[/quote]
What is wrong with the basic EAS supplements? I have EAS/Myoplex creatine monohydrate and some meal replacements and they seem to be fine.
I’ve been using KBs for about six months now and I really enjoy training w/ them. I’ve used them w/ my wrestlers and as others have said, are a great tool to add to your training.
Zach Even-Esh and Jason C. Brown have a KBs for Sport DVD that I got off of Ebay and found to be good.
By the way, it looks life Fedor uses them
[quote]Roo Boy wrote:
Hi,
Has anyone bought Pavel’s Russian kettlebell Challenge DVD. I got it the other day and I have to say it is the biggest load of crap I have ever seen.
First of all, he gives next to no insight into how to develop a KB training program. I assume the DVD is for beginners (which I am in KB training) and I am absolutely none the wiser.
Second: His jerk is exactly the same as his Push press. Yet he calls them different exercises but all the coaching points are the same and the movement is identical.
I saw this DVD as a complete waste of money and would definetly advise all people not to buy it.
I feel like an absolute dickhead for buying it and I feel ripped off by another marketing gimmick.
Anyone else got views on Pavel?[/quote]
Don’t worry about it Pavel got us all at one time or another. Chalk it up to experience and move on.
[quote]JOG wrote:
kb jogging - the wave of the future[/quote]
Jogging? Is that pronounced with a soft J as in yogging?
For the poster who said that the coaches who use kettlebell’s are only doing so to profit from them, you are making quite the blanket statemet. This may be true in some cases but you are calling into question the integrity of many top notch people whose reputations are sterling.
Personally, I love kb’s and I learned a lot from Pavel. Are they the end all be all of training? Nope, but they are effective and fun.
[quote]Head_locker wrote:
I’ve been using KBs for about six months now and I really enjoy training w/ them. I’ve used them w/ my wrestlers and as others have said, are a great tool to add to your training.
Zach Even-Esh and Jason C. Brown have a KBs for Sport DVD that I got off of Ebay and found to be good.
By the way, it looks life Fedor uses them[/quote]
Pavel is gaunt…Fedor looks down right chubby. In some cases, aesthetics just don’t apply.
Isn’t that Fedor’s brother?
Even if thats him stand amoung those things in Russia is like being surronded by smith machines here, it doesn’t mean you are down with it.
[quote]JOG wrote:
Dirty Tiger wrote:
Is there any reason you can’t do the hi-rep snatches on Pav’s video with a dumbell?.
no
[/quote]
uhhhh… yeah. Deccelerating heavy DBs for high reps is an absolute bitch on the grip and back, turning the one-arm snatch from a good posterior chain exercise into a round-backed-grip-pain-in-the-ass exercise. Snatches w/55 pound DB are about the same as snathches with a 1.5 pood (24 kg) kettlebell. Snatches w/ a 75# DB are SUBSTANTIALLY harder, because one can ‘corkscrew’ the KB on the way down from the snatch, twisting the handle to rest the weight on the forearm as it descends and allow you to get more reps in more smoothly.
This is even more true of swings, especially when you take them all the way overhead.
re. Pavel’s Russian schtich, three words:
Tongue… in… cheek.
Personally, I think it’s funny as hell.
re. the product under consideration: Yes, it’s pretty thin. But then KB training is not rocket science, Comrade. If it’s light, swing it many times. If it’s not so light, swing it fewer times, or press it. Done.
I’d spend money getting instruction from somebody who knows the lifts, if you have the option. I know from experience that Mike Mahler is excellent.
If you want more bang for your Pavel buck, the book ‘Beyond Bodybuilding’ is really solid and chock full of information–this book is more like an armory of different techniques to use depending on your particular situation, although it also has a lot to say about how to plan training over longer periods of time. The article excerpt from Muscle Media, on Periodization, written many years ago, combines many of the most interesting approaches to varying intensity within a workout and over the course of months at a time that have since been portrayed in more tightly focused articles here on T-Nation.
[quote]petrainer wrote:
Isn’t that Fedor’s brother?
Even if thats him stand amoung those things in Russia is like being surronded by smith machines here, it doesn’t mean you are down with it.[/quote]
No that’s Fedor and there’s been video on other sites of him using the KB’s.
Frank Shamrock used KB training for his fight against Caesar Gracie and said they helped tremendously.
I trained with KB’s and bodyweight excerises exclusively for about 5 months. I got in the best shape of ever and had the time of my life. When I went back to heavy squats, deads, and Oly lifts, I also made a lot of progress.
KB’s are a useful tool but they’re not the end all, be all. Even Pavel says that, despite his agressive marketing. But WTF? The man’s running a business, not a charity.
[quote]Ross Hunt wrote:
uhhhh… yeah. …[/quote]
i hear you. there are some technical differences. but in general, one can perform db snatches to much the same effect as kb snatches.
i still do both.
Advice: If you want to learn kettlebell exercises, get Steve Cotter’s “Encyclopedia of Kettlebell Lifting.” It’s very good, and describes every kettlebell exercise I can think of. It’s 5 DVDs and sells for 100 bucks. A much better deal than any of the other overpriced Dragondoor garbage.
Dragondoor products in general are incredibly overpriced for what you get, with a few exceptions.
And while I have found great uses for kettlebells in GPP and strength endurance work, Pavel’s DVD sucks ass, and at best kbs are only a small part in an effective exercise program.
[quote]Hamster wrote:
…at best kbs are only a small part in an effective exercise program.[/quote]
bullsh!t. one could build an extremely effective “exercise program” using only kettlebells … or only dumbbells … or only barbells … or only sandbags … or only bodyweight … but why would one want to?
[quote]JOG wrote:
i suggest a mahler dvd[/quote]
Agreed. Mike Mahler’s Kettlebell Solution for Size and Strength is great.
You guys act like KB’s are a scam Pavel invented to trick people into giving him money.
They’ve been around for centuries, the standard weights are in ‘pud’ measurements from Tsarist Russia. They’re used a great deal by Russian wrestlers, there are many textbooks about training with them and they’re part of the curriculum for coaching.
They’re not intended for aesthetics, that doesn’t mean people are sick in the head for using them.
[quote]Ross Hunt wrote:
JOG wrote:
Dirty Tiger wrote:
Is there any reason you can’t do the hi-rep snatches on Pav’s video with a dumbell?.
no
uhhhh… yeah. Deccelerating heavy DBs for high reps is an absolute bitch on the grip and back, turning the one-arm snatch from a good posterior chain exercise into a round-backed-grip-pain-in-the-ass exercise. Snatches w/55 pound DB are about the same as snathches with a 1.5 pood (24 kg) kettlebell. Snatches w/ a 75# DB are SUBSTANTIALLY harder, because one can ‘corkscrew’ the KB on the way down from the snatch, twisting the handle to rest the weight on the forearm as it descends and allow you to get more reps in more smoothly.
This is even more true of swings, especially when you take them all the way overhead.
re. Pavel’s Russian schtich, three words:
Tongue… in… cheek.
Personally, I think it’s funny as hell.
[/quote]
I really like Pavel, PTTP helped me get a 2xBodyweight conventional deadlift.
I bought his KB video a while back and tried some of the exercises with a home made KB handle…I cut a tricep bar in half.
I didn’t like the way the KB smacked into my forearm so I gave up, Maybe I should just man up and learn good technique.
BTW I’ve heard that Pavel is Latvian, his Evil Russian schtick is kinda funny.
My wife thinks he’s cute.
[quote]JOG wrote:
Roo Boy wrote:
I would like to know how to structure them into a program.
what kind of program? i don’t get it. use them for active recovery - do a set of 30 kb swings. use them for variation of a standard lift - substitute in for a standing military press. use them for conditioning - do EDT style kb snatches for 5 or 10 or 15 minutes.
[/quote]
Is it honestly that hard to understand. He wants a program! If I bought a Ronnie Coleman DVD I would expect some sort of insight into the program he does or reccomends.
Ronnie simply doesn’t show you how to do a bench press. He explains sets and reps.
[quote]JOG wrote:
negative ghost rider … it’s 7 hours, but … it’s 7 HOURS … 7 hours of anything is too much … steve is a great guy who is on top of the game, but most people don’t need 7 hours of kettlebell instruction … i suggest a mahler dvd[/quote]
I think I will go and buy that. I’d prefer 7 hours than a dodgy 30 minute thing that Pavel whipped up in an afternoon. No thought, no effort and people still claim that it is a must have for a serious strength trainer.
[quote]Head_locker wrote:
By the way, it looks life Fedor uses them[/quote]
Obviously the “Watch in amazement as high-rep kettlebells let you hack the fat off your meat” statement doesn’t ring true.
That would be about $2k worth of KB’s at his feet. Imagine how good a home gym you could make with that much money.