Rousey vs Mayweather in MMA Fight

Training
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[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
She would never lay a hand on him before he rolled her eyes back. I cant feature any approach that she makes that doesn’t get skirted and counterpunched. God forbid you give him 6 months to train. Can someone give me a plausible explanation of how she would actually get to one of his legs, proceed to eat punches harder than any she has ever felt from an elite boxer while trying to take him down if she does get there, and not end up crumpling under the barrage that would ensue as she tried to grapple him?[/quote]
Roy Jones vs Royce Gracie? Similar idea and we all know what the result would be. Roy would be vastly more athletic but he’d still lose. You dorks sound like people trying to argue that batman would beat superman.[/quote]
Not similar at all. Royce trained his entire life for a moment like that whereas Rousey NEVER has. She has never trained to close the distance, clinch and take down a man anywhere near Floyd’s ability or even a man in general under mma-like circumstances.

People keep talking about Floyd’s nonexistent grappling but this is mma, not a Judo match. It starts out exactly where Floyd wants, not Rousey.

There is video of her training with Mousasi and it looks like he finds her attempts at fighting him amusing and even boring. Rousey does look frustrated though. Sure, he is bigger than Floyd, and Rousey, but she is an Olympic Judoka should it really have been that easy? [/quote]
Mousasi is a trained grappler and even outgrappled Hector Lombard (he was an olympic judoka) horrible comparison. And no Royce Gracie wasn’t training his entire life to close the distance and take guys down. The Gracie clan doesn’t include much in the way of takedowns unless we’re counting Rener and that bunch (I think they were state champs in HS) Royce had awful TD’s.[/quote]
Did Royce tell you that? You do know his father challenged Joe Louis? You do know that Carlson trained with boxers? You do know that Royce was doing challenge matches as a teen? You do know that the Gracies’ original intent with BJJ was to win a real fight, you know, with punches, and not a grappling match? So the idea that Royce’s training was not directed at the idea of overcoming an opponent who is trying to punch your face is pure ignorance.

BTW, I know Royce and I know how he expects his students to train. There is a heavy emphasis on closing the distance and clinching.

The Mousasi/Lombard comparison is irrelevant as that was an mma match, not grappling as it was with Rousey and Mousasi. Had the male bronze medal winner at a similar weight from the same Olympics as Rousey grappled with Mousasi the same way she was then Mousasi would have been thrown with ease. [/quote]

BTW I know Royce and Oh f me, are you saying Ronda doesn’t train to close the distance and secure the clinch? Derp…

122

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I mean think what you want about technique vs technique and who will win. You may be right. But the fact that you will even question whether or not there will be a significant strength difference between a 155lb trained male boxer and a 135lb trained female mma fighter makes me question your insight on most things regarding this issue. [/quote]

Weight room strength? Yeah probably. But “mat” strength? Ronda is likely going to be as strong if not stronger than Floyd, and even if she isn’t stronger in a 1 to 1 comparison (like say her biceps aren’t as strong as his), her decades of learning to use superior leverage and body mechanics will nullify any potential slight advantage that Floyd might have in terms of muscular strength. The sport specific strength built by grappling where you are under constant resistance from your opponent and having to carry their weight or manipulate their body is very different from the type of strength built from punching things. There is very little to no clinch work in modern boxing, so there is no way that Mayweather could have possibly developed grappling specific strength.

123

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
OK, let me rejoin the thread because of the children.

what have:
Chuck vs Tito (thank you jpick)
Mousasi vs Ronda (thank you zecarlo)

in common with:
Ronda vs Mayweather
?

Nothing.
the above feature all ELITE MMA fighters, while Mayweather might be the world’s most untalented grappler.

Anybody who has grappled in his life before knows that a complete novice has no clue how to apply his strength.
There must be a HUGE gap in physical power -bigger than in Mayweather-Rousey btw- for a big, muscular novice to hold his own for a minute or two against an experienced grappler.
On the other side, an expert sometimes doesn’t feel particularly strong outside the mat. But when rolling, his use of leverage and position will make him comfortably manipulate bigger opponents.

So it all comes down to wether Mayweather can knock Ronda out as she comes in- as some here claim
eyeroll

scenario 1
Mayweather attacks aggressively
a thankful Ronda shoots, its over in 15 seconds max.

scenario 2
Mayweather is defensive, feints, does some airjabs etc.
Ronda has to close the gap using one of ~1.2 Mio techniques that have proven to be effective.
She can use kicks, as Sento wrote.
She can pretty much lower her head and charge and comfortably take a dive if it gets tricky. Mayweather cannot follow up. This is time tested.
She can set up fake punches which will make Mayweather’s brain work-it’s his specialty after all, grab his lead hand- he’s not used to this, she’s handfighting for 20 years…etc …then go for the clinch.
…

Bottom line: As long as she doesn’t box with Floyd, she’ll be fine.
There are NO boxing techniques known that work well against a grappler coming in who wants to clinch or goes low.
90% of takedown and clinch defense involves some kind of knowledge of Judo, Wrestling, BJJ, if it’s not an outright dodge.
The rest is a mixup that still requires knowhow.
A pure boxer not only has zero knowledge about all that, Floyd’s clinching (“Ronda, here, have some double underhooks”) and evasive go-to-movements (“I’ll lean back so you can grab my skinny legs better”) would work wonderfully against him.

[b]If you know these secret boxing techniques, please let us know. You’d change martial arts!

PLEASE, TELL US![/b][/quote]
A. Tell us how good a female Judoka’s double leg TD is. I’m sure she practiced it for years. Combine that with the fact that women are faster and more powerful than men and I’m sure she could take down Ben Askren…oh wait.
B. Tell us how all of the anecdotal evidence you provide, which may be true, applies to women vs men since everything you mentioned was man vs man? [/quote]

There you go again, creating false equivalences and straw men. So now you are comparing Floyd’s takedown defense to Ben Askrin’s? You must think that Mayweather was born on Krypton or something.

124

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I mean think what you want about technique vs technique and who will win. You may be right. But the fact that you will even question whether or not there will be a significant strength difference between a 155lb trained male boxer and a 135lb trained female mma fighter makes me question your insight on most things regarding this issue. [/quote]

Weight room strength? Yeah probably. But “mat” strength? Ronda is likely going to be as strong if not stronger than Floyd, and even if she isn’t stronger in a 1 to 1 comparison (like say her biceps aren’t as strong as his), her decades of learning to use superior leverage and body mechanics will nullify any potential slight advantage that Floyd might have in terms of muscular strength. The sport specific strength built by grappling where you are under constant resistance from your opponent and having to carry their weight or manipulate their body is very different from the type of strength built from punching things. There is very little to no clinch work in modern boxing, so there is no way that Mayweather could have possibly developed grappling specific strength.[/quote]

Fair enough but the “strength” that you are talking about is more of learning how to better utilize leverages and body control. That isn’t really physical strength though, just knowing how to use the your body more efficiently in certain position.

With that said, when you talk about punching power and chin strength, Mayweather is by far and away superior, and like it or not, the chin thing is almost entirely due to the fact that he is a male and she is a female. That’s not a knock against Rousey or women, just an unfortunate truth that there bodies cannot absorb the same level of punishment.

With that said, I have never said that this fight would come down to strength. I don’t believe the speed and skill difference would ever allow it to get there as Mayweather would have plugged her and had her backpedaling or blindly grasping as soon as she was within range. There isn’t an MMA fighter alive that has ever faced a pair of hands as fast or laser accurate as Mayweather’s. Not really a knock but just a side effect of it not being as practical to devote the amount of time to developing that skill set to that level (if even physically capable as you are talking about some of the fastest hands in the world) those hands in MMA training. She will eat one or two punches, that is an almost certainty, and if she does, she will not win that fight.

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[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Doesn’t have to be a powerlifter, most 15 year old football players will total elite in her division. It is only a 703lb total. Not exactly male powerlifting numbers. I don’t think you have even a basic understanding of the sheer strength difference in men and women. Especially when you factor in a size difference of 20lbs.[/quote]

As far as I am aware, 15 year old football players are not cutting 20-30lb down from their natural weight.

Again, you cannot make an assumption that Mayweather will just be incredibly stronger than Rousey, because “he’s a man dude!”
[/quote]

So you are really going to hold on to the just because she is a woman she isn’t weaker argument. Dude, believe what you want about who would win, I still say that the colossal difference in foot work and the speed to work those angles dominantly will keep Mayweather away from her takedowns and the slim margin of error for her(she eats one semi-solid punch and she is going to have the fireworks going off in her eyes) creates a situation where she almost can’t win. With that said, "Because he is a man dude, that by the way weighs 20lbs heavier, does more than likely make him signigicantly stronger as most untrained 155lb males would be as strong if not stronger than Rhonda. That’s not really my opinion, its the reason why elite womens powerlifters would only be lower middle of the pack compared to male lifters. It is not sexist to state a simple fact of nature.
[/quote]

The difference in footwork speed would be significant, at first. But again, a couple of kicks to Floyd’d legs would likely start to even that difference out. I suppose Mayweathet could just run away for the whole fight and probably never get taken down, but if he was trying to win he would have to eventually plant his feet to land any type of potentially KO inducing punch. And when he did he would be in danger of getting jammed and clinched.

Or again, Ronda could take advantage of his hard wired defensive skills and trick him into putting himself in position where she could easily close and clinch on him. Floyd is a smart fighter, and given a few years of dedicated takedown defense training where every day he was only having world class wrestlers and Judoka try to take him down while he tried to stay on his feet or get back to his feet if they did take him down, then this would be a totally different discussion and I would concede that Floyd would probably win the vast majority of hypothetical matches. But that’s not what we are discussing here.

126

Listening to Rhonda in that interview, I am decently sure that Rhonda doesn’t even truly believe that she would win. If she stays on her feet enough to try to through a leg kick or two I truly believe the fight would be over within the first minute with Floyd planting a KO punch. If she is in range for an effective look kick she is almost in Floyd punching range and that in and out speed of his would let him tag her hard.

127

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Listening to Rhonda in that interview, I am decently sure that Rhonda doesn’t even truly believe that she would win. If she stays on her feet enough to try to through a leg kick or two I truly believe the fight would be over within the first minute with Floyd planting a KO punch. If she is in range for an effective look kick she is almost in Floyd punching range and that in and out speed of his would let him tag her hard. [/quote]
You do realize that
A. Floyd has never been kicked in his life
B. Never defended a takedown
C. Has zero experience in any form of combat other than boxing
D. Has no idea how a grappler/mma fighter would approach a fight
E. Literally one solid leg kick and he’d be down
F. This only changes a little bit if he trains for lets say one full camp

128

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Listening to Rhonda in that interview, I am decently sure that Rhonda doesn’t even truly believe that she would win. If she stays on her feet enough to try to through a leg kick or two I truly believe the fight would be over within the first minute with Floyd planting a KO punch. If she is in range for an effective look kick she is almost in Floyd punching range and that in and out speed of his would let him tag her hard. [/quote]
You do realize that
A. Floyd has never been kicked in his life
B. Never defended a takedown
C. Has zero experience in any form of combat other than boxing
D. Has no idea how a grappler/mma fighter would approach a fight
E. Literally one solid leg kick and he’d be down
F. This only changes a little bit if he trains for lets say one full camp[/quote]

One solid leg kick?? I kind of doubt that. But also, Rhonda also has seen anyone with a tenth of the boxing ability as Floyd and would really have no way to prepare for it. Rhonda has never been on the receiving end of a truly bad-intentioned punch from a man, not to mention an elite pro boxer.

The saying “Everyone has a plan till they are punched in the mouth” holds true here. Yall are saying Floyd getting kicked or rushed is going to be that “punch in the mouth” that lets Rhonda take him out, I am saying that a literal punch in the mouth would be the pivotal moment that sent Rhonda reeling before she ever got anything going.

129

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Listening to Rhonda in that interview, I am decently sure that Rhonda doesn’t even truly believe that she would win. If she stays on her feet enough to try to through a leg kick or two I truly believe the fight would be over within the first minute with Floyd planting a KO punch. If she is in range for an effective look kick she is almost in Floyd punching range and that in and out speed of his would let him tag her hard. [/quote]
You do realize that
A. Floyd has never been kicked in his life
B. Never defended a takedown
C. Has zero experience in any form of combat other than boxing
D. Has no idea how a grappler/mma fighter would approach a fight
E. Literally one solid leg kick and he’d be down
F. This only changes a little bit if he trains for lets say one full camp[/quote]

One solid leg kick?? I kind of doubt that. But also, Rhonda also has seen anyone with a tenth of the boxing ability as Floyd and would really have no way to prepare for it. Rhonda has never been on the receiving end of a truly bad-intentioned punch from a man, not to mention an elite pro boxer.

The saying “Everyone has a plan till they are punched in the mouth” holds true here. Yall are saying Floyd getting kicked or rushed is going to be that “punch in the mouth” that lets Rhonda take him out, I am saying that a literal punch in the mouth would be the pivotal moment that sent Rhonda reeling before she ever got anything going.[/quote]

A. You’ve obviously never been kicked in the leg before.
B. Ronda isn’t going to get hit, start crying and die. Floyd doesn’t have bazookas for fists.
C. Floyd doesn’t even have a good stance to avoid being taken down.
D. This is literally the exact argument all dumb boxing fans use for all of their theoretical fights. Ah naw man no way would GSP beat Sergio Martinez, he’d get lit up before ever getting the Takedown, if he shot in Sergio would punch him like 100 times, GSP has never faced a high level boxer, bla blah blah it’s all bull and you know it.

130

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Listening to Rhonda in that interview, I am decently sure that Rhonda doesn’t even truly believe that she would win. If she stays on her feet enough to try to through a leg kick or two I truly believe the fight would be over within the first minute with Floyd planting a KO punch. If she is in range for an effective look kick she is almost in Floyd punching range and that in and out speed of his would let him tag her hard. [/quote]
You do realize that
A. Floyd has never been kicked in his life
B. Never defended a takedown
C. Has zero experience in any form of combat other than boxing
D. Has no idea how a grappler/mma fighter would approach a fight
E. Literally one solid leg kick and he’d be down
F. This only changes a little bit if he trains for lets say one full camp[/quote]

One solid leg kick?? I kind of doubt that. But also, Rhonda also has seen anyone with a tenth of the boxing ability as Floyd and would really have no way to prepare for it. Rhonda has never been on the receiving end of a truly bad-intentioned punch from a man, not to mention an elite pro boxer.

The saying “Everyone has a plan till they are punched in the mouth” holds true here. Yall are saying Floyd getting kicked or rushed is going to be that “punch in the mouth” that lets Rhonda take him out, I am saying that a literal punch in the mouth would be the pivotal moment that sent Rhonda reeling before she ever got anything going.[/quote]

A. You’ve obviously never been kicked in the leg before.
B. Ronda isn’t going to get hit, start crying and die. Floyd doesn’t have bazookas for fists.
C. Floyd doesn’t even have a good stance to avoid being taken down.
D. This is literally the exact argument all dumb boxing fans use for all of their theoretical fights. Ah naw man no way would GSP beat Sergio Martinez, he’d get lit up before ever getting the Takedown, if he shot in Sergio would punch him like 100 times, GSP has never faced a high level boxer, bla blah blah it’s all bull and you know it.[/quote]

Man vs man is different. Womens chins are not as good when they are tested by a males fist, especially when that fist is from a trained fighter. One or two punches and he will have her totally off her kilter. I have been hit in the leg by a cattle brander before, does that count?? And yes I have also been kicked in the leg but not from anyone overly experienced. How hard do you think Rhonda can kick? I don’t think she is just going to kick his legs totally out from under him with one swoop. That is far more ludicrous than me saying he would knock her out with one punch.

131

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
OK, let me rejoin the thread because of the children.

what have:
Chuck vs Tito (thank you jpick)
Mousasi vs Ronda (thank you zecarlo)

in common with:
Ronda vs Mayweather
?

Nothing.
the above feature all ELITE MMA fighters, while Mayweather might be the world’s most untalented grappler.

Anybody who has grappled in his life before knows that a complete novice has no clue how to apply his strength.
There must be a HUGE gap in physical power -bigger than in Mayweather-Rousey btw- for a big, muscular novice to hold his own for a minute or two against an experienced grappler.
On the other side, an expert sometimes doesn’t feel particularly strong outside the mat. But when rolling, his use of leverage and position will make him comfortably manipulate bigger opponents.

So it all comes down to wether Mayweather can knock Ronda out as she comes in- as some here claim
eyeroll

scenario 1
Mayweather attacks aggressively
a thankful Ronda shoots, its over in 15 seconds max.

scenario 2
Mayweather is defensive, feints, does some airjabs etc.
Ronda has to close the gap using one of ~1.2 Mio techniques that have proven to be effective.
She can use kicks, as Sento wrote.
She can pretty much lower her head and charge and comfortably take a dive if it gets tricky. Mayweather cannot follow up. This is time tested.
She can set up fake punches which will make Mayweather’s brain work-it’s his specialty after all, grab his lead hand- he’s not used to this, she’s handfighting for 20 years…etc …then go for the clinch.
…

Bottom line: As long as she doesn’t box with Floyd, she’ll be fine.
There are NO boxing techniques known that work well against a grappler coming in who wants to clinch or goes low.
90% of takedown and clinch defense involves some kind of knowledge of Judo, Wrestling, BJJ, if it’s not an outright dodge.
The rest is a mixup that still requires knowhow.
A pure boxer not only has zero knowledge about all that, Floyd’s clinching (“Ronda, here, have some double underhooks”) and evasive go-to-movements (“I’ll lean back so you can grab my skinny legs better”) would work wonderfully against him.

[b]If you know these secret boxing techniques, please let us know. You’d change martial arts!

PLEASE, TELL US![/b][/quote]
A. Tell us how good a female Judoka’s double leg TD is. I’m sure she practiced it for years. Combine that with the fact that women are faster and more powerful than men and I’m sure she could take down Ben Askren…oh wait.
B. Tell us how all of the anecdotal evidence you provide, which may be true, applies to women vs men since everything you mentioned was man vs man? [/quote]

I logged in after who knows how many years just to say sweet Jesus I feel I’m lucky that I’ve never met someone that is this sexist before. God forbid you ever roll with a woman and she taps you out… it seems like your whole world would be destroyed.

All I would say would be given a man with the same exact skills strength and speed as Ronda… hell this is a weird man that looks nearly the same proportionally as well?!? Does he now magically beat Floyd?

Like another poster said sure Floyd has a chance of winning… but it comes down to who implements their game plan better and the odds are heavily in Rondas favor in an MMA match.

Also… women train with men. Shes spent her entire life rolling with men.

A well established varsity high school wrestler that’s never been punched would kill Floyd in MMA. The only hang up people seem to have is that Ronda is a woman. She’ll have physical disadvantages but she makes up for it with her many years of experience.

My girlfriend is a 95lb wrestler, I more than double her in weight but she can rag doll me if I play dumb. If she was remotely close to my weight and I was untrained then she would maul me.

Floyd can win… he has to avoid the takedown long enough to knock her out. But you’re delusional if you think the fight favors Floyd… he’d be the underdog.

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And I am not saying she is going to get hit and cry. I am saying she is going to get punched and start seeing stars. Then she is going to get punched over and over as she tries to collect herself from that initial blow and ultimately crumple from the barrage in a KO. I agree most of the boxer vs mma in an MMA fight arguments are ridiculous. And if we were talking about Jose Aldo, Uriah Faber, Renan Baroa I would go with all those guys over FM in an MMA fight.

However, Rhonda is not in the same league as those guys in terms of durability or athleticism. Technique yes, but the gap in athleticism between her and FM would not allow her to showcase her technique before ending up on the floor being covered up by the ref far more often than not. I will give you this, yall might have convinced me to give her more than 1 fight out of 100 though, maybe 1 out of 5.

133

Every scenario were people keep talking about women training with men and getting the better or holding their own in exchanges involves them starting out in a grappling position. Time and time again, I am saying she never manages to get a good hold on him before catching a punch that takes away her wits far more often than not.

134

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I mean think what you want about technique vs technique and who will win. You may be right. But the fact that you will even question whether or not there will be a significant strength difference between a 155lb trained male boxer and a 135lb trained female mma fighter makes me question your insight on most things regarding this issue. [/quote]

Weight room strength? Yeah probably. But “mat” strength? Ronda is likely going to be as strong if not stronger than Floyd, and even if she isn’t stronger in a 1 to 1 comparison (like say her biceps aren’t as strong as his), her decades of learning to use superior leverage and body mechanics will nullify any potential slight advantage that Floyd might have in terms of muscular strength. The sport specific strength built by grappling where you are under constant resistance from your opponent and having to carry their weight or manipulate their body is very different from the type of strength built from punching things. There is very little to no clinch work in modern boxing, so there is no way that Mayweather could have possibly developed grappling specific strength.[/quote]

Fair enough but the “strength” that you are talking about is more of learning how to better utilize leverages and body control. That isn’t really physical strength though, just knowing how to use the your body more efficiently in certain position.

With that said, when you talk about punching power and chin strength, Mayweather is by far and away superior, and like it or not, the chin thing is almost entirely due to the fact that he is a male and she is a female. That’s not a knock against Rousey or women, just an unfortunate truth that there bodies cannot absorb the same level of punishment.

With that said, I have never said that this fight would come down to strength. I don’t believe the speed and skill difference would ever allow it to get there as Mayweather would have plugged her and had her backpedaling or blindly grasping as soon as she was within range. There isn’t an MMA fighter alive that has ever faced a pair of hands as fast or laser accurate as Mayweather’s. Not really a knock but just a side effect of it not being as practical to devote the amount of time to developing that skill set to that level (if even physically capable as you are talking about some of the fastest hands in the world) those hands in MMA training. She will eat one or two punches, that is an almost certainty, and if she does, she will not win that fight.
[/quote]

Some of it is definitely better mechanics, but some of it is strength as well, especially competing at the elite world class level I’d bet dollars to dimes that there were situations where she had to power through throws, subs, or sub defenses. You try picking up a resisting opponent who weighs the same amount as you who knows how to defend the throw and tell me that doesn’t require some strength.

No argument that if they trade Rock Em Sock Em Robots style that Floyd wins 999 out of 1,000 times. Nobody is suggesting that Ronda will KO Floyd or that if Floyd lands a flush power punch on the button that Ronda will just eat it. Floyd could absolutely win by KO.

You were the one talking about strength, which I agree will not likely decide the victor either way. Again, I absolutely am not saying that Floyd could never KO Ronda, but I think you guys who think Ronda could never get in and get a hold of Mayweather are either blinded by your boxing centric point of view, have very little actual experience or knowledge of how a grappler can effectively close on a striker without getting KO’d, or in some cases are thinking with the head between your legs rather than the one on your shoulders.

135

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
So you are really going to hold on to the just because she is a woman she isn’t weaker argument.[/quote]

Here you talk about strength as though it is key to him winning.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Dude, believe what you want about who would win, I still say that the colossal difference in foot work and the speed to work those angles dominantly will keep Mayweather away from her takedowns and the slim margin of error for her(she eats one semi-solid punch and she is going to have the fireworks going off in her eyes) creates a situation where she almost can’t win.[/quote]

Here, you talk about Mayweather’s footwork and technique being the main components for him beating Rousey.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
With that said, "Because he is a man dude, that by the way weighs 20lbs heavier, does more than likely make him signigicantly stronger as most untrained 155lb males would be as strong if not stronger than Rhonda.[/quote]

Back to talking about strength as though it will be want lets him win.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
That’s not really my opinion, its the reason why elite womens powerlifters would only be lower middle of the pack compared to male lifters. It is not sexist to state a simple fact of nature.
[/quote]

Like I said. Mayweather is 20-30lb below what would be normal weight for a 5ft 8 man. Can you please fucking respond to that instead of just posting the same damned crap ad nauseum?

You cannot assume that, just because Mayweather is a man he will be stronger. You can certainly hold to the general concept that men are stronger than women, but that is not always applicable to all situations.

In other words, just because you have a general concept, doesn’t mean that you can assume that EVERYONE applies to that general concept.

And make up your damned mind on what lets Mayweather win. Is it strength? Or is it his technique? I’ve already pointed out just how bloody inconsistent your points are. Is it both? In that case I consider you an idiot who has no idea what he’s talking about if he thinks physical strength holds significant relevance to either boxing or grappling.

I’ve already agreed with you that Mayweather’s footwork and technique will probably let him win against Rousey. You’re right. Rousey has never fought an individual as talented in boxing as Mayweather (Who in the MMA business has?) If Mayweather can stick to his game, then Rousey will lose, no question.

But one cannot assume that Mayweather will be able to just stick to his game. It’s as if you’re playing one of those fantasy mind-games where your protagonist does everything right whereas the antagonist isn’t ever even factored in. It’s called bad writing.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
With that said, when you talk about punching power and chin strength, Mayweather is by far and away superior, and like it or not, the chin thing is almost entirely due to the fact that he is a male and she is a female. That’s not a knock against Rousey or women, just an unfortunate truth that there bodies cannot absorb the same level of punishment. [/quote]

And you just confirmed that you’ve never grappled (either judo or bjj) with women.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
With that said, I have never said that this fight would come down to strength.[/quote]

Uh…

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
and Mayweather is a bigger, stronger, faster man vs a woman.[/quote]

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I think most people here are drastically underestimating the difference strength, speed and power would make with regards to Rhonda’s ability to even grapple[/quote]

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Most healthy males can come damn close to totalling elite in Rhonda’s Raw powerlifting division with a month or two of strength work so I am not going out on a limb here and saying the strength disparity is large unless you think Rhonda is also a world class lifter.[/quote]

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
As you said, wouldn’t matter as much when it came to grappling, although it will matter some, how the fuck is she going to clinch.[/quote]

Ya, I call bullshit on that statement of yours.

136

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Time and time again, I am saying she never manages to get a good hold on him before catching a punch that takes away her wits far more often than not.
[/quote]

What if mayweather had to wear a gi jacket? I guarantee Rousey would have it the second he throws a jab.

137

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
So you are really going to hold on to the just because she is a woman she isn’t weaker argument.[/quote]

Here you talk about strength as though it is key to him winning.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Dude, believe what you want about who would win, I still say that the colossal difference in foot work and the speed to work those angles dominantly will keep Mayweather away from her takedowns and the slim margin of error for her(she eats one semi-solid punch and she is going to have the fireworks going off in her eyes) creates a situation where she almost can’t win.[/quote]

Here, you talk about Mayweather’s footwork and technique being the main components for him beating Rousey.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
With that said, "Because he is a man dude, that by the way weighs 20lbs heavier, does more than likely make him signigicantly stronger as most untrained 155lb males would be as strong if not stronger than Rhonda.[/quote]

Back to talking about strength as though it will be want lets him win.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
That’s not really my opinion, its the reason why elite womens powerlifters would only be lower middle of the pack compared to male lifters. It is not sexist to state a simple fact of nature.
[/quote]

Like I said. Mayweather is 20-30lb below what would be normal weight for a 5ft 8 man. Can you please fucking respond to that instead of just posting the same damned crap ad nauseum?

You cannot assume that, just because Mayweather is a man he will be stronger. You can certainly hold to the general concept that men are stronger than women, but that is not always applicable to all situations.

In other words, just because you have a general concept, doesn’t mean that you can assume that EVERYONE applies to that general concept.

And make up your damned mind on what lets Mayweather win. Is it strength? Or is it his technique? I’ve already pointed out just how bloody inconsistent your points are. Is it both? In that case I consider you an idiot who has no idea what he’s talking about if he thinks physical strength holds significant relevance to either boxing or grappling.

I’ve already agreed with you that Mayweather’s footwork and technique will probably let him win against Rousey. You’re right. Rousey has never fought an individual as talented in boxing as Mayweather (Who in the MMA business has?) If Mayweather can stick to his game, then Rousey will lose, no question.

But one cannot assume that Mayweather will be able to just stick to his game. It’s as if you’re playing one of those fantasy mind-games where your protagonist does everything right whereas the antagonist isn’t ever even factored in. It’s called bad writing.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
With that said, when you talk about punching power and chin strength, Mayweather is by far and away superior, and like it or not, the chin thing is almost entirely due to the fact that he is a male and she is a female. That’s not a knock against Rousey or women, just an unfortunate truth that there bodies cannot absorb the same level of punishment. [/quote]

And you just confirmed that you’ve never grappled (either judo or bjj) with women.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
With that said, I have never said that this fight would come down to strength.[/quote]

Uh…

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
and Mayweather is a bigger, stronger, faster man vs a woman.[/quote]

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
I think most people here are drastically underestimating the difference strength, speed and power would make with regards to Rhonda’s ability to even grapple[/quote]

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Most healthy males can come damn close to totalling elite in Rhonda’s Raw powerlifting division with a month or two of strength work so I am not going out on a limb here and saying the strength disparity is large unless you think Rhonda is also a world class lifter.[/quote]

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
As you said, wouldn’t matter as much when it came to grappling, although it will matter some, how the fuck is she going to clinch.[/quote]

Ya, I call bullshit on that statement of yours.[/quote]

Wrong, everything I said about strength was mostly just a rebuttle to your statement that an athletically trained 155lb male is not stronger than athletically trained female who is 20lbs lighter. That will almost never happen and for Rhonda to be stronger than the base levels of strength (keep in mind this is lifting strength which is the only quantifiable measure of strength) she would have to be a near masters level powerlifter in her division. Soooo yes I can assume very safely that Floyd is significantly stronger than Rhonda despite being an undersized male. As I said there are high school locker rooms filled with 15 year old 155lb boys who are much stronger than Rhonda.

Again, anytime I ever analyzed the fight, I always said it would come down to speed and that basically the discrepancy there and the margin of error being so slim for Rhonda in that if she eats a solid punch it at least throws her off her rocker a little and opens her up to the incoming flurry when he smells blood in the water. Oh, and by the way, the strength mattering a little, the fact that his higher strength (combined with technique) will lead to a much stronger punch makes it matter a little.

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
With that said, when you talk about punching power and chin strength, Mayweather is by far and away superior, and like it or not, the chin thing is almost entirely due to the fact that he is a male and she is a female. That’s not a knock against Rousey or women, just an unfortunate truth that there bodies cannot absorb the same level of punishment. [/quote]

And you just confirmed that you’ve never grappled (either judo or bjj) with women.[/quote]

Have you ever grappled?? Because the last time I checked chin strength didn’t matter jack shit in grappling.

Also, bjj and judo don’t change the fact that my or your bodies are more resilient than Rhonda’s. Her technique in those two arts could lead to her being able to push our stronger bodies far beyond their breaking points well before we can push hers past that point (this would most certainly happen in my case) but that doesn’t mean are bodies aren’t more resilient.

138

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Listening to Rhonda in that interview, I am decently sure that Rhonda doesn’t even truly believe that she would win. If she stays on her feet enough to try to through a leg kick or two I truly believe the fight would be over within the first minute with Floyd planting a KO punch. If she is in range for an effective look kick she is almost in Floyd punching range and that in and out speed of his would let him tag her hard. [/quote]
You do realize that
A. Floyd has never been kicked in his life
B. Never defended a takedown
C. Has zero experience in any form of combat other than boxing
D. Has no idea how a grappler/mma fighter would approach a fight
E. Literally one solid leg kick and he’d be down
F. This only changes a little bit if he trains for lets say one full camp[/quote]

One solid leg kick?? I kind of doubt that. But also, Rhonda also has seen anyone with a tenth of the boxing ability as Floyd and would really have no way to prepare for it. Rhonda has never been on the receiving end of a truly bad-intentioned punch from a man, not to mention an elite pro boxer.

The saying “Everyone has a plan till they are punched in the mouth” holds true here. Yall are saying Floyd getting kicked or rushed is going to be that “punch in the mouth” that lets Rhonda take him out, I am saying that a literal punch in the mouth would be the pivotal moment that sent Rhonda reeling before she ever got anything going.[/quote]

A. You’ve obviously never been kicked in the leg before.
B. Ronda isn’t going to get hit, start crying and die. Floyd doesn’t have bazookas for fists.
C. Floyd doesn’t even have a good stance to avoid being taken down.
D. This is literally the exact argument all dumb boxing fans use for all of their theoretical fights. Ah naw man no way would GSP beat Sergio Martinez, he’d get lit up before ever getting the Takedown, if he shot in Sergio would punch him like 100 times, GSP has never faced a high level boxer, bla blah blah it’s all bull and you know it.[/quote]

Man vs man is different. Womens chins are not as good when they are tested by a males fist, especially when that fist is from a trained fighter. One or two punches and he will have her totally off her kilter. I have been hit in the leg by a cattle brander before, does that count?? And yes I have also been kicked in the leg but not from anyone overly experienced. How hard do you think Rhonda can kick? I don’t think she is just going to kick his legs totally out from under him with one swoop. That is far more ludicrous than me saying he would knock her out with one punch.[/quote]

I agree that her taking out his leg with a single kick is unlikely, and honestly it would likely not be the best strategy anyhow as a really hard kick would likely be too telegraphic and slow and allow Floyd to avoid it or counter it. But a quick accurate lead leg inside round kick to Floyd’s lead leg would likely land and not open Ronda up to a counter (her left leg is almost certainly longer than Mayweather’s left arm and even if it wasn’t the fact that she should be leaning back and rolling her left shoulder in front of her chin would mean that she would be out of range of Floyd’s counters. Lead leg side kicks to his lead knee would be another very safe and effective strike to use.

If I were game planning as Ronda’s coach I would not be having her seek to take Floyd out with leg kicks. She is not a Muay Thai specialist and the longer she keeps the fight on the feet where Floyd can use his strength (boxing skills, not physical strength), the greater the chances that Floyd can win. Instead I would have her simply use them to spread Floyd’s attention beyond his usual (from the “belt” up target area), frustrate him, slow down his feet (either by causing accumulated damage or by trying to get him to start checking them), and take him out of his comfort zone. Even a couple of quick accurate lead leg round kicks with the top of the foot thrown to the exact same right spot will start to really wear on you and get you thinking about that target. They are also much harder to catch than rear leg power round kicks and don’t force you to square your body to the target at any time.

Once she has him frustrated and either reaching to try to catch the kick, trying to check it, or lunging in to try to hit her with a leaping left hook, then she should jam her way in, get the clinch and do her thing.

Her strategy of trying to crawl at him I think was more of a tongue in cheek comment, but I think would be a bad one and simply shows that she is not much of a strategist and needs a good coach to game plan for her (which isn’t a knock on her, she gets paid to fight after all, not strategize, but it’s also probably why she lost to decidedly in the TUF season against Meisha). If she tried to do that she would likely never catch Floyd before he held her head and punched her silly or at least just cut up her face till the ref stopped it or she lost a lopsided decision.

139

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Listening to Rhonda in that interview, I am decently sure that Rhonda doesn’t even truly believe that she would win. If she stays on her feet enough to try to through a leg kick or two I truly believe the fight would be over within the first minute with Floyd planting a KO punch. If she is in range for an effective look kick she is almost in Floyd punching range and that in and out speed of his would let him tag her hard. [/quote]
You do realize that
A. Floyd has never been kicked in his life
B. Never defended a takedown
C. Has zero experience in any form of combat other than boxing
D. Has no idea how a grappler/mma fighter would approach a fight
E. Literally one solid leg kick and he’d be down
F. This only changes a little bit if he trains for lets say one full camp[/quote]

One solid leg kick?? I kind of doubt that. But also, Rhonda also has seen anyone with a tenth of the boxing ability as Floyd and would really have no way to prepare for it. Rhonda has never been on the receiving end of a truly bad-intentioned punch from a man, not to mention an elite pro boxer.

The saying “Everyone has a plan till they are punched in the mouth” holds true here. Yall are saying Floyd getting kicked or rushed is going to be that “punch in the mouth” that lets Rhonda take him out, I am saying that a literal punch in the mouth would be the pivotal moment that sent Rhonda reeling before she ever got anything going.[/quote]

A. You’ve obviously never been kicked in the leg before.
B. Ronda isn’t going to get hit, start crying and die. Floyd doesn’t have bazookas for fists.
C. Floyd doesn’t even have a good stance to avoid being taken down.
D. This is literally the exact argument all dumb boxing fans use for all of their theoretical fights. Ah naw man no way would GSP beat Sergio Martinez, he’d get lit up before ever getting the Takedown, if he shot in Sergio would punch him like 100 times, GSP has never faced a high level boxer, bla blah blah it’s all bull and you know it.[/quote]

Man vs man is different. Womens chins are not as good when they are tested by a males fist, especially when that fist is from a trained fighter. One or two punches and he will have her totally off her kilter. I have been hit in the leg by a cattle brander before, does that count?? And yes I have also been kicked in the leg but not from anyone overly experienced. How hard do you think Rhonda can kick? I don’t think she is just going to kick his legs totally out from under him with one swoop. That is far more ludicrous than me saying he would knock her out with one punch.[/quote]

I agree that her taking out his leg with a single kick is unlikely, and honestly it would likely not be the best strategy anyhow as a really hard kick would likely be too telegraphic and slow and allow Floyd to avoid it or counter it. But a quick accurate lead leg inside round kick to Floyd’s lead leg would likely land and not open Ronda up to a counter (her left leg is almost certainly longer than Mayweather’s left arm and even if it wasn’t the fact that she should be leaning back and rolling her left shoulder in front of her chin would mean that she would be out of range of Floyd’s counters. Lead leg side kicks to his lead knee would be another very safe and effective strike to use.

If I were game planning as Ronda’s coach I would not be having her seek to take Floyd out with leg kicks. She is not a Muay Thai specialist and the longer she keeps the fight on the feet where Floyd can use his strength (boxing skills, not physical strength), the greater the chances that Floyd can win. Instead I would have her simply use them to spread Floyd’s attention beyond his usual (from the “belt” up target area), frustrate him, slow down his feet (either by causing accumulated damage or by trying to get him to start checking them), and take him out of his comfort zone. Even a couple of quick accurate lead leg round kicks with the top of the foot thrown to the exact same right spot will start to really wear on you and get you thinking about that target. They are also much harder to catch than rear leg power round kicks and don’t force you to square your body to the target at any time.

Once she has him frustrated and either reaching to try to catch the kick, trying to check it, or lunging in to try to hit her with a leaping left hook, then she should jam her way in, get the clinch and do her thing.

Her strategy of trying to crawl at him I think was more of a tongue in cheek comment, but I think would be a bad one and simply shows that she is not much of a strategist and needs a good coach to game plan for her (which isn’t a knock on her, she gets paid to fight after all, not strategize, but it’s also probably why she lost to decidedly in the TUF season against Meisha). If she tried to do that she would likely never catch Floyd before he held her head and punched her silly or at least just cut up her face till the ref stopped it or she lost a lopsided decision.[/quote]

That is a very plausible strategy for Rhonda. And you insinuating at something similar earlier is what swayed my thinking on the likely hood of Rhonda getting a win. With that said, I still think, more often than not, Floyd gets in and counters a leg kick (or Rhonda misses and ends up really open before getting clobbered) with a combo then gets out before getting grabbed (he may do this a couple times), leading to her getting KO’d before she can chop his legs out from under him enough to sufficiently slow him down.

140

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Oh, and by the way, the strength mattering a little, the fact that his higher strength (combined with technique) will lead to a much stronger punch makes it matter a little.
[/quote]

Holy crap.

You really do have no idea what you’re writing.

I give up.