Rousey vs Mayweather in MMA Fight

Training
181

No, I don’t think you are being argumentative.

We are again in complete agreement; Floyd’s use of clinching in boxing is used very effectively within the rules of boxing and he is a phenomenal boxer and very intelligent boxer. If we were discussing him vs any MMA fighter anywhere close to his weight class in a boxing match there would be absolutely no question that he would own anyone.

But, we aren’t.

Haha, well at this point he is mostly limited to some remedial Spider Guard, grounded defense, and ground mobility skills. :wink: Once he starts actually walking, then we can start teaching him striking, standing grappling, and weapons (within reason of course). :slight_smile:

182

Floyd would murder her with those small gloves. He wouldn’t even have to train his grappling once. I can’t believe this is being discussed even hypotheticaly. He’s way faster and more powerful and skilled. Not to mention bigger. He could light her up at will from any angle he wants. I think some of you are mocking boxing or something.

183

[quote]Liv92 wrote:
I think some of you are mocking boxing or something.[/quote]

Then you clearly haven’t read the thread.

184

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
I take it from 177 posts that some actually think Rowsy would win!

That’s crazy.

It would last a few seconds.[/quote]

Actually neither would win. If Ronda tried to get in to get one of these clinches that keeps getting talked about she would get lit up and go night night. If she tried to lay back in kicking range to kick at his legs (she’s not much of a kicker anyway) she would get lit up and go night night. SHE is smart enough to know all this so she would do exactly at she said she would do. She would hit the canvas and crawl at him.

Floyd is not a statue so he would simply dance away from her. Most likely after he danced away a few times he would start getting cocky and hop over her a few times. It would end up being a complete farce with no winner.

185

@Brett:What is crazy is that some people who know so little of factual fighting exhibit very strong feelings online.

However, the last part you got right - It’s unlikely to last more than a minute.

@Liv:Nearly everyone on earth though kickthai/boxing/gongfu was the shit until people actually tried it out.
“He wouldn’t even need to train grappling once” is EXACTLY the kind of dumb, ignorant, poisonous attitude martial arts was in before the advent of mixed martial arts.

@onedge
Floyd is maybe the greatest boxer of this time, but…
Floyd has nothing for Ronda.
Even with only a few months of training, clinching up or getting a takedown is ridiculously easy vs someone who is incompetent.
Ronda is ELITE in that regard and Floyd is INCOMPETENT.

Even worse, Mayweather’s particular style and physiology are a gift for a grappler.
Already discussed ad nauseam in this thread.

186

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

@onedge
Floyd is maybe the greatest boxer of this time, but…
Floyd has nothing for Ronda.
Even with only a few months of training, clinching up or getting a takedown is ridiculously easy vs someone who is incompetent.
Ronda is ELITE in that regard and Floyd is INCOMPETENT.

Even worse, Mayweather’s particular style and physiology are a gift for a grappler.
Already discussed ad nauseam in this thread.[/quote]

Ronda Rousey: â??I would drop down to the ground and crawl over to him as fast as I can,â??

Three quarters of the posters in this thread: “Ronda is elite at getting in and taking down”

Half the posters in this thread: “Ronda would stay out of his comfort zone and take him out with kicks to the legs” lol

Ronda Rousey: â??I wouldnâ??t even stand up, I wouldnâ??t be near him."

Seriously guys, Ronda can’t take one square hit from Floyd AND she can’t avoid square hits from the chicks she fights when she closes on them so how the hell would she do it against Floyd? Against Floyd she will suddenly, magically be able to slip a jab and be in on him when she can’t do that against chicks?

She knows this, thus her quotes above. Why do you all seem to think she’s lying and would really do something different?

187

Well, to be fair Schwarz, Boxing/Muay Thai/Kickboxing/Karate systems that actually practice full contact fighting (like Kyokushin)/even Tae Kwon Do trained realistically are integral parts of MMA and are effective arts. What MMA has really highlighted is the need to be well rounded to be a complete fighter.

Back in the early UFC days most of the Martial Arts community were strikers with very little if any grappling skill, thus a grappler who knew how to effectively close the gap and get a hold of them was able to exploit their weakness and beat them. A little later on the strikers got smart and started training takedown defense, anti-grappling skills, and escapes so they could keep the fight on the feet where they had the advantage over the guys who could pretty much only grapple (Maurice Smith was really the first of this group, Chuck Lidell would probably be the quintessential example though), and finally the complete Mixed Martial Artists started emerging and beating everyone who wasn’t (GSP, Anderson Silva, Fedor, Jon Jones, etc… pretty much every dominant champion in recent history falls into this category).

Ronda is nowhere remotely close to Floyd in terms of her boxing skills, anyone arguing that point is nuts. But she is well rounded enough (and exceptional in an aspect that Floyd is utterly inept at) that she could exploit Floyd’s completly one dimensional skill set (just like in the early days of the UFC), or at least have a damn good chance at being able to exploit it.

188

Quoting her or Floyd is not doing a reasonable discussion any good.
Remember, everybody knows that fight is never, ever gonna happen.
So all she or he can do is drop some vaguely interesting soundbites.

A boxer is flummoxed by someone coming in and grabbing very low.
He doesn’t train for it, it is illegal.
Same with the clinch. There are fantastic proboxers out there who tie em up, handing out underhooks liberally, and look anxiously to the ref -every time!
And why not- it works in Boxing.

But such sporty yet martially negligent behaviour is not unique to boxing.
Eg. Kykushinkai Karatekas have criminally underdeveloped awareness about getting facepunched.
It’s just their ruleset.
Does that make them less of a baddass? No.
But against a kickboxer with a good jab, I see little chances for them to shine should such a spontanous fight occur under kickboxing rules.

I repeat myself: Floyd is a heroic badass. Maybe the best boxer of my timetime.
He absolutely, radiantly displays outboxing technique like a pugilistc saint - in BOXING EXCHANGES.
Which would never take place.

What would happen; she shoots in or stumbles very low and gets a good grip.
It doesn’t look pretty. And Floyd would throw something resembling short hooks.
But they are desperate, and far from accurate.
They wrestle a bit. Hectic power vs economy of decade-old experience.
Then he’s flying south and it’s dramatically smoother.
5-20s later…submission. (damn, sounds a lot like me doing No2)

Its the same shit like “Bruce Lee would beat anyone” .

189

Sento, I agree completey with what you wrote.

190

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

@onedge
Floyd is maybe the greatest boxer of this time, but…
Floyd has nothing for Ronda.
Even with only a few months of training, clinching up or getting a takedown is ridiculously easy vs someone who is incompetent.
Ronda is ELITE in that regard and Floyd is INCOMPETENT.

Even worse, Mayweather’s particular style and physiology are a gift for a grappler.
Already discussed ad nauseam in this thread.[/quote]

Ronda Rousey: â??I would drop down to the ground and crawl over to him as fast as I can,â??

Three quarters of the posters in this thread: “Ronda is elite at getting in and taking down”

Half the posters in this thread: “Ronda would stay out of his comfort zone and take him out with kicks to the legs” lol

Ronda Rousey: â??I wouldnâ??t even stand up, I wouldnâ??t be near him."

Seriously guys, Ronda can’t take one square hit from Floyd AND she can’t avoid square hits from the chicks she fights when she closes on them so how the hell would she do it against Floyd? Against Floyd she will suddenly, magically be able to slip a jab and be in on him when she can’t do that against chicks?

She knows this, thus her quotes above. Why do you all seem to think she’s lying and would really do something different?

[/quote]

Who is talking about her slipping Floyd’s jab and entering to the clinch? I totally agree that trying to do that would get her into trouble.

Like I said before, Ronda is no strategist and therefore when asked what her plan would be, you have to take into consideration that she probably has no idea how to gameplan for someone like Floyd. That’s why fighters have coaches though and any fighter who is their own coach is a fool and will not go far in the fight game.

What has been discussed in this thread are strategies that could potentially be used to allow Ronda to exploit Floyd’s weaknesses. Whether or not those were the strategies that would be utilized or whether Ronda was actually able to execute them come fight time is obviously questionable, but then that is always the case when discussing fights.

191

Ok, let’s take Rousey’s “serious gameplan” at face value:

“I wouldnt even stand up, I wouldnt be near him” [said R. according to Edge]

Which basically means buttscooting.

What would Floyd do? COuld he do anything against smart buttscooting (think Werdum-Overeem)?
I think not.
Eventually, he’ll land in her guard.
Pro side: he is spared being smashed onto his back. The most painless scenario for Floyd.

192

I honestly don’t know if that would work though. I see Floyd avoiding her like the plague and simply refusing to engage her at all; waiting till the ref forced her to stand back up.

193

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Ok, let’s take Rousey’s “serious gameplan” at face value:

“I wouldnt even stand up, I wouldnt be near him” [said R. according to Edge]

Which basically means buttscooting.

What would Floyd do? COuld he do anything against smart buttscooting (think Werdum-Overeem)?
I think not.
Eventually, he’ll land in her guard.
Pro side: he is spared being smashed onto his back. The most painless scenario for Floyd.
[/quote]
A. She can’t crawl on all fours because that will get an immediate standup from the ref.
B. She can’t buttscoot because that will get a standup almost as quickly.
C. I don’t think she would want PBF on top regardless since she could very well eat a punch from there and men have been KOed in that position before.
D. Overeem beat Werdum.

194

no, dude, just no
A+B: There are seldom immediate standups. (see Werdum-Overeem).
As long as she wouldn’t overdo it, she could definitely use it.
It doesn’t mean she exclusively scoots.
Buttscooting as a whole isn’t used anymore because of other reasons.
In a match that onesided, going prone would be a safe and prudent strategy for Ronda.
Id est, she eats a lucky straight, loses control, down she goes, spread eagle jitsu and Mayweather backs off.

C: c’mon… as if Mayweather can stay on top for three seconds, much less throw something noticable

D. Yes, because he knows how groundgame works. He, a pro and certified monster, was entangled multiple times.
Imagine how easy it will be with an absolute beginner.

195

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
C. I don’t think she would want PBF on top regardless since she could very well eat a punch from there and men have been KOed in that position before.
[/quote]

I don’t know much about boxing, but I do know that a proper punch relies heavily on proper form and execution.

Now, Mayweather may be the greatest boxer currently alive, but I doubt even he’ll be able to throw a good punch in a positioning that he’s never been in before.

196

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
no, dude, just no
A+B: There are seldom immediate standups. (see Werdum-Overeem).
As long as she wouldn’t overdo it, she could definitely use it.
It doesn’t mean she exclusively scoots.
Buttscooting as a whole isn’t used anymore because of other reasons.
In a match that onesided, going prone would be a safe and prudent strategy for Ronda.
Id est, she eats a lucky straight, loses control, down she goes, spread eagle jitsu and Mayweather backs off.

C: c’mon… as if Mayweather can stay on top for three seconds, much less throw something noticable

D. Yes, because he knows how groundgame works. He, a pro and certified monster, was entangled multiple times.
Imagine how easy it will be with an absolute beginner.
[/quote]
You don’t watch mma. If a fighter sits down on the mat, as some do in ADCC matches, they will be stood up immediately. You are thinking of fights where a fighter goes for a TD and ends up on his ass. Yes, the ref doesn’t stand him up immediately if the fighter on top wants to keep the fight going from there but if the fighter on top, the one who is standing, disengages then it is stood up. This isn’t Pride where soccer kicks to a downed opponent were legal.

197

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
C. I don’t think she would want PBF on top regardless since she could very well eat a punch from there and men have been KOed in that position before.
[/quote]

I don’t know much about boxing, but I do know that a proper punch relies heavily on proper form and execution.

Now, Mayweather may be the greatest boxer currently alive, but I doubt even he’ll be able to throw a good punch in a positioning that he’s never been in before.[/quote]
Get in someone’s guard and throw a punch. It’s not that hard.

199

I tend to agree Irish.

While Hatton would still potentially be vulnerable to the same lack of clinch, takedown, and ground fighting defense and could still be just as open to getting kicked from a distance, his much more aggressive style (pressure), more squared defense/position, heavy punching (especially to the body, which could come in handy in clinch range), and constantly trying to cut angles as he comes in would give him a better chance of KO’ing Ronda. He could still potentially get smothered, clinched, thrown, and subbed, but I think stylistically he would transfer better to MMA.

200

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
C. I don’t think she would want PBF on top regardless since she could very well eat a punch from there and men have been KOed in that position before.
[/quote]

I don’t know much about boxing, but I do know that a proper punch relies heavily on proper form and execution.

Now, Mayweather may be the greatest boxer currently alive, but I doubt even he’ll be able to throw a good punch in a positioning that he’s never been in before.[/quote]
Get in someone’s guard and throw a punch. It’s not that hard. [/quote]

To hit them? No, maybe not. But we are also talking about someone who has never been in that position before so probably would have no idea about how to maintain their balance, posture, or what positions they don’t want to be in and probably wouldn’t even realize they were being subbed until they actually started to feel pain (and even if they did probably would not know how to react properly).

There is also a big difference between hitting someone and really hurting them with that hit. My prediction is that Ronda would fairly easily control his posture, keep him off balance (both of which would make a KO strike far less likely), and either sub or sweep Floyd fairly easily.

BTW, I’m also assuming we are talking about closed, butterfly, Rubber, or some other type of grounded guard. If we’re talking about her having a single De La Riva hook in, then yeah, maybe he’s got a chance of landing one big power punch to KO her, but even then she’d likely sweep him fairly easily or there is a good chance that he would end up not KO’ing her with that big punch and getting subbed or swept once he missed and she got a hold of him.

201

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
C. I don’t think she would want PBF on top regardless since she could very well eat a punch from there and men have been KOed in that position before.
[/quote]

I don’t know much about boxing, but I do know that a proper punch relies heavily on proper form and execution.

Now, Mayweather may be the greatest boxer currently alive, but I doubt even he’ll be able to throw a good punch in a positioning that he’s never been in before.[/quote]
Get in someone’s guard and throw a punch. It’s not that hard. [/quote]

To hit them? No, maybe not. But we are also talking about someone who has never been in that position before so probably would have no idea about how to maintain their balance, posture, or what positions they don’t want to be in and probably wouldn’t even realize they were being subbed until they actually started to feel pain (and even if they did probably would not know how to react properly).

There is also a big difference between hitting someone and really hurting them with that hit. My prediction is that Ronda would fairly easily control his posture, keep him off balance (both of which would make a KO strike far less likely), and either sub or sweep Floyd fairly easily.

BTW, I’m also assuming we are talking about closed, butterfly, Rubber, or some other type of grounded guard. If we’re talking about her having a single De La Riva hook in, then yeah, maybe he’s got a chance of landing one big power punch to KO her, but even then she’d likely sweep him fairly easily or there is a good chance that he would end up not KO’ing her with that big punch and getting subbed or swept once he missed and she got a hold of him.[/quote]

Thank you Sento.

I have witnessed plenty of folks who could punch lose the mechanics to do so when they started rolling and resort to arm punches. Mayweather isn’t big enough for arm punches to do a whole hell of a lot, heavyweights on the other hand.

I feel like I am in some kind of alternate reality where zecarlo is posting about how useless BJJ/grappling is against bigger people with no training and you and I are talking against the footwork and timing that is developed in boxing.

Regards,

Robert A