Rotating Pavel And His Bear

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1

hi folks,

I bought Pavels book “russian strength principles for each american-POWER TO THE PEOPLE”

Its nice to read but the density of information is not THAT high.

the cycling is pretty simple-but this has not to be negative.

My question to those of you,who trained by pavel:

i will be interested in trying his stuff-but including the russian bear.

The cycle begins with a weight you could lift easy for 10 times-but doing it 5 times. (70%rpm)
Then a second set is introduced with 90% of the first set-also 5 reps.
For mass you go further-after the second set,you reduce the weight of the first set to 80%-you are doing 4-6 reps with a rest interval of 90-30 seconds until you cannot complet the 5th rep anymore.

The weight progression is via step,linear or wave cycle so in each session you put on more weight,you take one step further,or remain the weight for some other sessions until you put on some again.

if the cycle is over you start with a new one with 80% of your new best 5RM.

The exercises remain equal in one cycle.

Many of you now his programm for sure-my questions:

-The cycling is quite too simple with quite less variables-and somehow this CYCLING sounds for me more as a instinctive training (if tired take a step back ("wave),if it gets very hard remain the weight (step cycle) HELL it sounds you are only listening to your body and name it in fancy ways!

-is the weight for the hypertr.sets not TOO light for hypertr.(SARCOMER!)?
i mean you train in the beginning with 80% of your 10RPM-that represents 60% of 1rpm…

-Pavel relates his cycling to his “NO bulking” principle BUT if you want to gain-simply add the russian bear.

Does that mean-if you cycle the way he means-you simply can also do this with the russian bear without stagnation setting in?
If I think about Thib and Chad-it sounds much more complicated then Pavel sees it.No fancy rep schemes and similar stuff-for mass just rest 90-30 second and take 80% of your first set in the session-the rest is auto regulating-is it really that simple-wassup with changin rep schemes???

So if some guys have answers or tried the bear-or are STILL doing it for years-i will appreciate your input!

Thanks science

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Come on guys!!! No Pavelizers out there???

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I bought his books too and that was nothing new to me. at the gym that i lift at in germany we have a bunch of people who said his stuff is too old and not really not helpful.

and we have guys benching 600/650 there

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PTTP is mainly for beginners, it’s a solid program for what it’s designed for: improving beginner’s strength. I myself use it in times of stress because I simply cannot focus or lift properly for very long. This is my ‘‘maintenance’’ routine so to speak.

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I found Pavel’s book to be a good primer on general strength training as a beginner and the way he explains proper technique was better than some of the other stuff I’d read. However, on the bear program, I didn’t see too many results; probably for a number of reasons.

I found CW’s 10x3 protocol to be preferable while using the same basic guidelines (lots of sets, few reps). To build muscle on Pavel’s plans, I’d suggest picking up his “Beyond Bodybuilding” book, which has a pretty good program called the “6 Week Delorme Inspired Hypertrophy Plan.” I found this to be pretty effective and use it as a guidline a lot…especially when equipment is minimal.
-B

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@ah dut and @blonde guy

Thanky for your input guys.

But why it is not THAT good?
I thought Pavel is a pro on his sector nad in his book he adresses his cycling for women,beginners and pros-everyone
He also wrote for T-Nation once and there are interviews in the archive- i am a bit disappointed now.

Were you stuck in that programm or is the cycling not effecient-or the progress too slow-what happend exactly?

i am training for 6 years now and i am not searching for the RIGHT programm but for the right CYCLING system-a simple system to repeat- i am sick of trying thinks out and jumping from pogramm to programm-sure i also made good gains,some programms work some not-I got a library with 40 books at home (also phd siff supertrainng-all stuff) and they brought me not really far.

So my question is,if the Pavel system is bad,worse or only NOT OPTIMAL-if its the last one, I will be satisfied-I don?t need no fancy programms any more-only simple stuff to repat-even if the progress is slow- but THERe SHOULD BE ONE-STEADY!
Thanks in advantage.

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PS:
Do you mean the APRE Systen of De Lorme method-I now it from SUPERTRAINING and regulated training intensity for daily working out-does the routine looks the same?

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After 6 years of training and reading all those books, you can’t design your own program? I’d think you’d have a pretty good idea of what works for you by this point. And if reading Supertraining didn’t help you along, there’s not a whole lot anyone can do.

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[quote]science wrote:
PS:
Do you mean the APRE Systen of De Lorme method-I now it from SUPERTRAINING and regulated training intensity for daily working out-does the routine looks the same?
[/quote]

Not sure. I did nominal research into who/what DeLorme was after I read Pavel’s program, but I don’t know much beyond that. It’s basically a simplistic- Light, Medium, Heavy- approach to Volume, with intensity increasing weekly.

If you’re just trying to figure out how to cycle, try mapping out a basic 1 year periodized cycle, or pick up Cosgrove and Schuler’s book “The New Rules of Lifting.” It’s not meant to be overly complicated. Pavel has a tendency to make things easier to understand than a lot of others and his programs are useful in certain capacities, but there are much better programs out there, IMO.

Pavel’s name is based primarily on the success of Kettlebells and his ideas on conditioning for “tactical athletes”. At least so far as I can tell. If you’re not one, or don’t care to train like one, I’d suggest looking elsewhere.

Hope that helps.
-B

P.S. CW has posted a couple different ways to order the programs he’s given to this site over the years. If you dig that stuff up (try his locker), you should have at least a good part of your year taken care of.

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I was just looking over your post again- are you looking for an extended program, or a way to just keep the workouts fresh while sticking to the same exercises?
-B

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Pavel’s bear program is based on frequency AND volume. You start by lifting a large volume (10-20 x 5) at a low intensity (60% 1RM) and then you wave your way upto new heights using (daily!) increases in intensity. You only do the volume you can on the day for 5 days a week and then you rest 2 days. Give lifting 5 days in a row a try for 2-3 weeks and then inform us about the weights/volume you could handle. Could be enlightening…

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Hi guys,

thank you very much for your time!

Cause of my books,sure I know cycling systems,periodizing etc.-and for sure nothing is writen in stone.

I am able to write 100000 programms ONCE-but I am not able to plan for long term,cause the knowledge is too much and there are too many variables contained in.

Also bases ogf the different period.systems-be it linear,wave,conjugated,undulated…each has his drawbacks and advantages.

This makes training interesting but also not easier.

Sure I also had suxcess but also often failed when periodizing programms myself-? had also personal advices from chad or thib-but they were not always right-once I even lost my strength I build up over 3 months.(this was when I milked AOW dry with great suxcess,then I followed TBT and then I lost my strength)

I don?t charge chad or thib for it-cause every individual is different-and if you don?t train with the person a diagnose is rather difficult.

My goal is simple mass and strength and i am searching over years for a long term SYSTEM to repeat over and over-be it sth like cycling from pavel or sth.similar-I don?t care if the exercises,rep schemes switch or not ,as long as I make steady progressions in mass and strength.

This is also why STRENGTh to the people catched my attention-NO complicated cadence,tut,inroad-shit-only a (rather too)simple pattern to follow and to repeat over years connected with the certainty that it will(hopefully) work.

Do you have sth.for me?

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@henk y -the only thing which bothers me about long term progress on pavels routines from the theoretical side,is that the stimulus configuration-especially for hypertrophy stays constant-specially the reps-which the body gets used to first.(always 5)

The only variable which changes is-as you said-the weight.

But 60%of the 1rpm for training for hypertr.is quite less and then the consequences are sarcoplastamic not sarcomer hypertrophy-not reaLLY functional mass.

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@Science: I only started weighttraining a year ago so most of what I know about it I read and some of it I experienced (or both). Since I play soccer as my real sport I have to adapt any prefab weight program. I read, liked and I tried a few Waterbury programs and I progressed stengthwise on all (being a beginner helps…).

But on some programs I made more progress than on others, mainly the lower volume ones (soccer influence + maybe being 33). I’ll change my program when it stops bringing results. Results in my case are judged by strength levels and general fitness.

The second half year of this journey I started gaining weight so my body started making more muscle mass as well as strength after I started eating more often. The basics also work on me…
I train, I sleep, I eat, I read, I try some variation and it works. If it stops I start over.

Back to you: Maybe using 65% is better for you or even 70%. Maybe alternating between these three with fitting volume, frequency and rest periods. If it works when you try, use it. If not, don’t.

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Not to sound like a dick but, don’t people read/pay attention? First off, the starting weight isn’t your 10RM and also that’s not 70% (that would be 75ish%). If you read carefully he says to use a weight you could do for 6 or 7 reps. Then 90% of that, then 80% of that. That leaves your “volume” sets in the 64-65% range. Also, the 5 day a week program the other guy is referencing is Pavel’s 5x5x5 program: 1 set of 5, 5 days a week, 5 exercises. This is NOT the russian bear.

This program seems intriguing but personally I’d go with 10x5 ala AGVT instead. To periodize just pick a few programs with fairly different parameters and run 6-8 week cycles of each one with a 1-2 week off or active recovery period.

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Built my “base” off that exact program doing flat bench and deadlifts when I was 17. Definately for beginners, but my deadlift went from around 185lbs - 365 lbs at 155lbs body weight in a couple months. I would guess it helped developed more motor units because I didn’t put on much weight but at the time I wasn’t eating to get bigger.

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Why is this in the BodyBuilding forum?

This should be in Strength Sports, or better yet Get A Life. Pavel is a clown.

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[quote]JMAX wrote:
Not to sound like a dick but, don’t people read/pay attention? First off, the starting weight isn’t your 10RM and also that’s not 70% (that would be 75ish%). If you read carefully he says to use a weight you could do for 6 or 7 reps. Then 90% of that, then 80% of that. That leaves your “volume” sets in the 64-65% range. Also, the 5 day a week program the other guy is referencing is Pavel’s 5x5x5 program: 1 set of 5, 5 days a week, 5 exercises. This is NOT the russian bear.

This program seems intriguing but personally I’d go with 10x5 ala AGVT instead. To periodize just pick a few programs with fairly different parameters and run 6-8 week cycles of each one with a 1-2 week off or active recovery period.[/quote]

Paying attention wasn’t in style in 2006.

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[quote]
Paying attention wasn’t in style in 2006. [/quote]

Apparently not in 2009 either, as I have yet again failed to “pay attention” to the date of said post.

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[quote]JMAX wrote:

Paying attention wasn’t in style in 2006.

Apparently not in 2009 either, as I have yet again failed to “pay attention” to the date of said post.[/quote]

I nominate you for the ironiest person on T-Nation.