Don’t forget to count the abortions.
How old is the earth pat?
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
How old is the earth pat?[/quote]
Do you guys just have random thoughts. “Answer this! Wait, no over here. No, now this!”
About 4.6 billion years.
About how old it the oldest prokaryote fossil?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
How old is the earth pat?[/quote]
Do you guys just have random thoughts. “Answer this! Wait, no over here. No, now this!”
About 4.6 billion years.
About how old it the oldest prokaryote fossil?[/quote]
What’s my shoe size?
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
How old is the earth pat?[/quote]
Do you guys just have random thoughts. “Answer this! Wait, no over here. No, now this!”
About 4.6 billion years.
About how old it the oldest prokaryote fossil?[/quote]
What’s my shoe size? [/quote]
eleventeen-fiddy!
TigerTime, I think you were correct about Atheism not being a religion and I finally found proof of it.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
How old is the earth pat?[/quote]
What you really want to know is if I am a creationist, correct? The earth is thought to be about 4.5 billion years old.
What’s interesting about creation theory is the bible really doesn’t speak to the age of the Earth. The whole 6000 number is based on a lot of assumptions based on which creation story you are looking at and how you back track. However, the phases of creation are nondescript in the actual chapters.
Interestingly though, the bible did say the Earth was round. So flat earth theory came from observation, not a reading of scripture.
Flat earth theory also believed the earth was round.
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
How does dwelling on this help you or your cause? If God doesn’t exist, why bother painting something that doesn’t exist as evil? If God does exist, then you are just going further away from him. I notice no atheist dares to read the teachings of Jesus and its obvious because they agree with him and admire him.
[/quote]
According to you, he exists, so for you to say that my side has the biggest killers sounds suspiciously like you doubt the existence of your God. Surely you, as a Christian, must think that more death has occurred in the name of God than for any other reason. No mere atheist, even if we were to include Hitler, has managed genocide on a planetary scale. I can’t name a single figure (who supposedly exists) more efficient or more creative at killing than Yahweh. Can you?
I have my disagreements with Jesus, but they aren’t quite to the scale of, say, God killing 14,700 people for complaining about all the Killing he does. (Numbers 16)[/quote]
You need to understand THEOLOGICAL CONTEXT and THE SIGNIFICANCE OF CHRIST AS THE NEW JUDGE before you make any accusations against God. Okay let me explain something to you and I will give you Biblical Scripture. If you refer to 1 Chronicles 21: 1 you will notice this passage:
‘Then SATAN stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel.’
In a parallel passage 2 Samuel 24:1 you will notice a similar statement:
‘Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.”’
What explains this? Well if you refer to the new testament Jesus says this
“Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.”-John 12:31
Who was the former ruler? Well Satan etymologically means “accuser”. On this note it explains a lot in the OT.
Prior to the coming of Christ, the days were extremely dark. Christs sacrifice was significant because prior to his coming, God’s judgement was exorcised by SATAN. When people sinned, it was not God who killed them, but SATAN. God’s ANGER in the old testament is synonymous with Satan. God used Satan to punish wicked people. When Jesus Ransomed us, Satan’s grasp on us was eliminated. Every time “God” killed someone, it needs to be understood that he never killed anybody. In exodus, you’ll notice it was THE ANGEL OF DEATH who killed the first born. As it is stated by St. Augustine “If God gave Satan a free hand, no man would be left alive”. When people sinned in the OT, they were punished. God allowed Satan domain. The days were horrible and that is why is is important to understand THE SIGNIFICANCE OF CHRIST’S SACRIFICE. When Christ took on the sins of the world, Satan cannot slaughter us anymore.
Christ came to “to destroy the works of the devil” (1 John 3:8), Recall that
“the whole world is in the power of the evil one”, (1 John 5: 19)
It is also why I want to stress that atheists are not the Christian’s enemy rather:
‘we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places’ (Ephesians 6:12).
DO YOU GET IT NOW?
[quote]pat wrote:
I can drop sources all day long if you don’t like those that’s not a problem, the point is lots of bad folks have done lots of bad things in this world through out history. Trying to say one side was worse is pretty useless to do. Like I said, when it comes to blood letting, you atheists take the prize. But it doesn’t matter, does it. Are you going to kill millions of people because Mao se Tung did? No, at least I hope not.
A King James bible when your grandfather died??? This sounds very familiar to me, you’ve been here before under a different name?? That or you went away for a while.
Would you stop trying to convince me you read it? When you demonstrate a modicum of biblical knowledge as someone who read it, then I’ll believe you. All your quotes and points are basically cut and pastes or paraphrases of those silly atheist propaganda sites, like the one you pasted above.
I hate to tell you, but you aren’t making arguments, you spew random stuff about lots of things, but I couldn’t tell you an ‘argument’ you’ve made. I mean, you’re trying to imply that God is evil by way of said propaganda websites, but you have yet to come out and say it, which I think would be preferred…
Lastly, are you still seriously on that Hitler was a Christian? I mean wow…
I suppose you got this here:
http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm
I also found some of your biblical quotes there too. And you want anybody to believe you came up with this crap on your own? That you have honest intentions and want to discuss this stuff?
I’ve told you I have heard it all before.
[/quote]
“Who has killed the most doesn’t matter. It was you guys. Totally you guys, but it doesn’t matter… Just a reminder, it was you guys.”
Okaaaayyy…
Yeah, I was here near the end of last Summer, then school started, yadda yadda, I have more free time now.
I’ve decided to use your debate tactics. Every time you insist I haven’t read the bible, I’m going to insist you are a secret Muslim. If I say it enough times, it will eventually be true, right???
Lastly, most of the information I’ve quoted is from wikipedia. Maybe you don’t think that’s much better, but thanks for the Hitler site anyway.
“h) Due to Hitlerâ??s involvement with the Church he began enacting doctrines of the Church as law.”
That doesn’t sound like something a Christian would do at all…
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
I can drop sources all day long if you don’t like those that’s not a problem, the point is lots of bad folks have done lots of bad things in this world through out history. Trying to say one side was worse is pretty useless to do. Like I said, when it comes to blood letting, you atheists take the prize. But it doesn’t matter, does it. Are you going to kill millions of people because Mao se Tung did? No, at least I hope not.
A King James bible when your grandfather died??? This sounds very familiar to me, you’ve been here before under a different name?? That or you went away for a while.
Would you stop trying to convince me you read it? When you demonstrate a modicum of biblical knowledge as someone who read it, then I’ll believe you. All your quotes and points are basically cut and pastes or paraphrases of those silly atheist propaganda sites, like the one you pasted above.
I hate to tell you, but you aren’t making arguments, you spew random stuff about lots of things, but I couldn’t tell you an ‘argument’ you’ve made. I mean, you’re trying to imply that God is evil by way of said propaganda websites, but you have yet to come out and say it, which I think would be preferred…
Lastly, are you still seriously on that Hitler was a Christian? I mean wow…
I suppose you got this here:
http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm
I also found some of your biblical quotes there too. And you want anybody to believe you came up with this crap on your own? That you have honest intentions and want to discuss this stuff?
I’ve told you I have heard it all before.
[/quote]
“Who has killed the most doesn’t matter. It was you guys. Totally you guys, but it doesn’t matter… Just a reminder, it was you guys.”
Okaaaayyy…
Yeah, I was here near the end of last Summer, then school started, yadda yadda, I have more free time now.
I’ve decided to use your debate tactics. Every time you insist I haven’t read the bible, I’m going to insist you are a secret Muslim. If I say it enough times, it will eventually be true, right???
Lastly, most of the information I’ve quoted is from wikipedia. Maybe you don’t think that’s much better, but thanks for the Hitler site anyway.
“h) Due to Hitlerâ??s involvement with the Church he began enacting doctrines of the Church as law.”
That doesn’t sound like something a Christian would do at all…[/quote]
That’s because Hitler wasn’t a Christian. Why don’t you understand this? If you put a Kobe Bryant Jersey on, does that make you Kobe Bryant?
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
How does dwelling on this help you or your cause? If God doesn’t exist, why bother painting something that doesn’t exist as evil? If God does exist, then you are just going further away from him. I notice no atheist dares to read the teachings of Jesus and its obvious because they agree with him and admire him.
[/quote]
According to you, he exists, so for you to say that my side has the biggest killers sounds suspiciously like you doubt the existence of your God. Surely you, as a Christian, must think that more death has occurred in the name of God than for any other reason. No mere atheist, even if we were to include Hitler, has managed genocide on a planetary scale. I can’t name a single figure (who supposedly exists) more efficient or more creative at killing than Yahweh. Can you?
I have my disagreements with Jesus, but they aren’t quite to the scale of, say, God killing 14,700 people for complaining about all the Killing he does. (Numbers 16)[/quote]
You need to understand THEOLOGICAL CONTEXT and THE SIGNIFICANCE OF CHRIST AS THE NEW JUDGE before you make any accusations against God. Okay let me explain something to you and I will give you Biblical Scripture. If you refer to 1 Chronicles 21: 1 you will notice this passage:
‘Then SATAN stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel.’
In a parallel passage 2 Samuel 24:1 you will notice a similar statement:
‘Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.”’
What explains this? Well if you refer to the new testament Jesus says this
“Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.”-John 12:31
Who was the former ruler? Well Satan etymologically means “accuser”. On this note it explains a lot in the OT.
Prior to the coming of Christ, the days were extremely dark. Christs sacrifice was significant because prior to his coming, God’s judgement was exorcised by SATAN. When people sinned, it was not God who killed them, but SATAN. God’s ANGER in the old testament is synonymous with Satan. God used Satan to punish wicked people. When Jesus Ransomed us, Satan’s grasp on us was eliminated. Every time “God” killed someone, it needs to be understood that he never killed anybody. In exodus, you’ll notice it was THE ANGEL OF DEATH who killed the first born. As it is stated by St. Augustine “If God gave Satan a free hand, no man would be left alive”. When people sinned in the OT, they were punished. God allowed Satan domain. The days were horrible and that is why is is important to understand THE SIGNIFICANCE OF CHRIST’S SACRIFICE. When Christ took on the sins of the world, Satan cannot slaughter us anymore.
Christ came to “to destroy the works of the devil” (1 John 3:8), Recall that
“the whole world is in the power of the evil one”, (1 John 5: 19)
It is also why I want to stress that atheists are not the Christian’s enemy rather:
‘we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places’ (Ephesians 6:12).
DO YOU GET IT NOW?
[/quote]
So Satan acted as God’s hit-man, so to speak? Hmm I hadn’t considered that. Why didn’t god do it himself, though?
I also want to get more into the sacrifice of Christ, but I want to know more about this OT God/Satan dynamic first.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
How old is the earth pat?[/quote]
What you really want to know is if I am a creationist, correct? The earth is thought to be about 4.5 billion years old.
What’s interesting about creation theory is the bible really doesn’t speak to the age of the Earth. The whole 6000 number is based on a lot of assumptions based on which creation story you are looking at and how you back track. However, the phases of creation are nondescript in the actual chapters.
Interestingly though, the bible did say the Earth was round. So flat earth theory came from observation, not a reading of scripture.[/quote]
Something can be both round and flat.
Daniel 4:11 “The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ends of the earth.”
How could a tree be visible by everyone if the Earth is a sphere?
Matthew 4:8 “Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them”
Basically the same issue.
Job 38:15 “The earth takes shape like clay under a seal.”
And as we all know, pressed clay forms into a sphere…
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
That’s because Hitler wasn’t a Christian. Why don’t you understand this? If you put a Kobe Bryant Jersey on, does that make you Kobe Bryant?
[/quote]
According to what you define as a “true” Christian, he wasn’t a Christian. Then again, according to Hitler, YOU wouldn’t be a true Christian.
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
How does dwelling on this help you or your cause? If God doesn’t exist, why bother painting something that doesn’t exist as evil? If God does exist, then you are just going further away from him. I notice no atheist dares to read the teachings of Jesus and its obvious because they agree with him and admire him.
[/quote]
According to you, he exists, so for you to say that my side has the biggest killers sounds suspiciously like you doubt the existence of your God. Surely you, as a Christian, must think that more death has occurred in the name of God than for any other reason. No mere atheist, even if we were to include Hitler, has managed genocide on a planetary scale. I can’t name a single figure (who supposedly exists) more efficient or more creative at killing than Yahweh. Can you?
I have my disagreements with Jesus, but they aren’t quite to the scale of, say, God killing 14,700 people for complaining about all the Killing he does. (Numbers 16)[/quote]
You need to understand THEOLOGICAL CONTEXT and THE SIGNIFICANCE OF CHRIST AS THE NEW JUDGE before you make any accusations against God. Okay let me explain something to you and I will give you Biblical Scripture. If you refer to 1 Chronicles 21: 1 you will notice this passage:
‘Then SATAN stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel.’
In a parallel passage 2 Samuel 24:1 you will notice a similar statement:
‘Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.”’
What explains this? Well if you refer to the new testament Jesus says this
“Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.”-John 12:31
Who was the former ruler? Well Satan etymologically means “accuser”. On this note it explains a lot in the OT.
Prior to the coming of Christ, the days were extremely dark. Christs sacrifice was significant because prior to his coming, God’s judgement was exorcised by SATAN. When people sinned, it was not God who killed them, but SATAN. God’s ANGER in the old testament is synonymous with Satan. God used Satan to punish wicked people. When Jesus Ransomed us, Satan’s grasp on us was eliminated. Every time “God” killed someone, it needs to be understood that he never killed anybody. In exodus, you’ll notice it was THE ANGEL OF DEATH who killed the first born. As it is stated by St. Augustine “If God gave Satan a free hand, no man would be left alive”. When people sinned in the OT, they were punished. God allowed Satan domain. The days were horrible and that is why is is important to understand THE SIGNIFICANCE OF CHRIST’S SACRIFICE. When Christ took on the sins of the world, Satan cannot slaughter us anymore.
Christ came to “to destroy the works of the devil” (1 John 3:8), Recall that
“the whole world is in the power of the evil one”, (1 John 5: 19)
It is also why I want to stress that atheists are not the Christian’s enemy rather:
‘we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places’ (Ephesians 6:12).
DO YOU GET IT NOW?
[/quote]
So Satan acted as God’s hit-man, so to speak? Hmm I hadn’t considered that. Why didn’t god do it himself, though?
I also want to get more into the sacrifice of Christ, but I want to know more about this OT God/Satan dynamic first.[/quote]
I wouldn’t say hit man, but sort of. He certainly worked for God.
When Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they were bound by the Law. Under the Law, people could be punished with death FOR sinning. Adam and Eve chose this and after they made their decision they were banished from paradise and refused the TREE OF LIFE
"So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the TREE OF LIFE’-Genesis 3 23-24
As it is written when Jesus said ‘Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.’ -John 5: 45-46
Moses Represents the Law. Under Mosaic Law, death penalties were enforced. So by choosing the Law, judgement was exorcised by God but through the Devil. The devil isn’t very nice.
Now the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is metaphorically and literally meant to be understood as MAN CHOOSING SATAN OVER GOD. This is why the days of the OT sucked so bad and why people always were getting slaughtered. The TREE OF LIFE is to be understood as Jesus Christ. As it is written when the Savior said:
‘No one cannot serve two masters’-Matthew 6:24
This is why once we chose the Tree of Knowledge of Good and evil, we were denied the tree of life.
Now recall that when adam and eve ate from the tree of knowledge it is written
‘THEIR EYES WERE OPENED’ -Genesis 3:4-7
We see the parallel in the New Testament after the Resurrection when meets Cleopas he breaks the bread, The Holy Eucharist, and it is written:
When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed and broke it and gave it to them. And THEIR EYES WERE OPENED , and they recognized him. And he vanished from their sight.-Luke 24:30-32
The Holy Eucharist is Christs Body, and the Fruit from the Tree of Life, who represents Christ. This is why Catholics hold it to so much esteem.
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
That’s because Hitler wasn’t a Christian. Why don’t you understand this? If you put a Kobe Bryant Jersey on, does that make you Kobe Bryant?
[/quote]
According to what you define as a “true” Christian, he wasn’t a Christian. Then again, according to Hitler, YOU wouldn’t be a true Christian.
[/quote]
Hitler would be wrong. If anyone was confused, we would just examine Christs teaching about not killing people and loving your neighbor. A Christian is one who follows Christ.
God doesn’t kill anybody because God is all loving
And the LORD God said, ‘The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and LIVE FOREVER’ Genesis 3: 22
Compare to
John 6: 51-58:
“I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.” 52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?” 53 Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 "For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 "As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 "This is the bread which came down from heaven; not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. HE WHO EATS THIS BREAD WILL LIVE FOREVER’
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
I can drop sources all day long if you don’t like those that’s not a problem, the point is lots of bad folks have done lots of bad things in this world through out history. Trying to say one side was worse is pretty useless to do. Like I said, when it comes to blood letting, you atheists take the prize. But it doesn’t matter, does it. Are you going to kill millions of people because Mao se Tung did? No, at least I hope not.
A King James bible when your grandfather died??? This sounds very familiar to me, you’ve been here before under a different name?? That or you went away for a while.
Would you stop trying to convince me you read it? When you demonstrate a modicum of biblical knowledge as someone who read it, then I’ll believe you. All your quotes and points are basically cut and pastes or paraphrases of those silly atheist propaganda sites, like the one you pasted above.
I hate to tell you, but you aren’t making arguments, you spew random stuff about lots of things, but I couldn’t tell you an ‘argument’ you’ve made. I mean, you’re trying to imply that God is evil by way of said propaganda websites, but you have yet to come out and say it, which I think would be preferred…
Lastly, are you still seriously on that Hitler was a Christian? I mean wow…
I suppose you got this here:
http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm
I also found some of your biblical quotes there too. And you want anybody to believe you came up with this crap on your own? That you have honest intentions and want to discuss this stuff?
I’ve told you I have heard it all before.
[/quote]
“Who has killed the most doesn’t matter. It was you guys. Totally you guys, but it doesn’t matter… Just a reminder, it was you guys.”
[/quote]
You brought it up. Thought is was worth a reminder.
[quote]
Okaaaayyy…
Yeah, I was here near the end of last Summer, then school started, yadda yadda, I have more free time now.
I’ve decided to use your debate tactics. Every time you insist I haven’t read the bible, I’m going to insist you are a secret Muslim. If I say it enough times, it will eventually be true, right???
Lastly, most of the information I’ve quoted is from wikipedia. Maybe you don’t think that’s much better, but thanks for the Hitler site anyway.
“h) Due to Hitlerâ??s involvement with the Church he began enacting doctrines of the Church as law.”
That doesn’t sound like something a Christian would do at all…[/quote]
I think you are only embarrassing yourself with your history fail, pressing the issue isn’t going to make it suddenly true. Just because a dog eats ‘people food’ he doesn’t suddenly become human.
Despite what your little atheist propaganda websites tell you hitler was not a christian. Plain old regular history would tell you that. He did dabble in the occult quite a bit at least early on, but he was not a Christian. He did murder quite a few million christians in those ovens too.
Now, do you have a question on the table, or an argument to make about something?
[quote]pat wrote:
You brought it up. Thought is was worth a reminder.
[/quote]
Actually, Push brought it up. You just took over for him.
[quote]
I think you are only embarrassing yourself with your history fail, pressing the issue isn’t going to make it suddenly true. Just because a dog eats ‘people food’ he doesn’t suddenly become human. [/quote]
… That would be a good point if those two things were in any way analogous.
[quote]
Despite what your little atheist propaganda websites tell you hitler was not a christian. Plain old regular history would tell you that. He did dabble in the occult quite a bit at least early on, but he was not a Christian. He did murder quite a few million christians in those ovens too. [/quote]
Your head is in the sand on this one. I’m not going to bother arguing against your Hitler delusions any more.
[quote]
Now, do you have a question on the table, or an argument to make about something? [/quote]
Well, since you ask, there is a question I’ve been meaning to ask you. The story of Noah’s ark. Is it meant to be literal?