Roots of Human Morality

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
541

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

That’s because Hitler wasn’t a Christian. Why don’t you understand this? If you put a Kobe Bryant Jersey on, does that make you Kobe Bryant?
[/quote]

According to what you define as a “true” Christian, he wasn’t a Christian. Then again, according to Hitler, YOU wouldn’t be a true Christian.

[/quote]

Hitler would be wrong. If anyone was confused, we would just examine Christs teaching about not killing people and loving your neighbor. A Christian is one who follows Christ.[/quote]

Sure, but lots of people interpret the bible in several different ways.

Even if you don’t consider him a Christian, his followers did. Hitler used Christianity to achieve his goals. Would you agree that this makes an objective moral code a dangerous thing?

542

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
How does dwelling on this help you or your cause? If God doesn’t exist, why bother painting something that doesn’t exist as evil? If God does exist, then you are just going further away from him. I notice no atheist dares to read the teachings of Jesus and its obvious because they agree with him and admire him.
[/quote]

According to you, he exists, so for you to say that my side has the biggest killers sounds suspiciously like you doubt the existence of your God. Surely you, as a Christian, must think that more death has occurred in the name of God than for any other reason. No mere atheist, even if we were to include Hitler, has managed genocide on a planetary scale. I can’t name a single figure (who supposedly exists) more efficient or more creative at killing than Yahweh. Can you?

I have my disagreements with Jesus, but they aren’t quite to the scale of, say, God killing 14,700 people for complaining about all the Killing he does. (Numbers 16)[/quote]

You need to understand THEOLOGICAL CONTEXT and THE SIGNIFICANCE OF CHRIST AS THE NEW JUDGE before you make any accusations against God. Okay let me explain something to you and I will give you Biblical Scripture. If you refer to 1 Chronicles 21: 1 you will notice this passage:

‘Then SATAN stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel.’

In a parallel passage 2 Samuel 24:1 you will notice a similar statement:

‘Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.”’

What explains this? Well if you refer to the new testament Jesus says this
“Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.”-John 12:31

Who was the former ruler? Well Satan etymologically means “accuser”. On this note it explains a lot in the OT.

Prior to the coming of Christ, the days were extremely dark. Christs sacrifice was significant because prior to his coming, God’s judgement was exorcised by SATAN. When people sinned, it was not God who killed them, but SATAN. God’s ANGER in the old testament is synonymous with Satan. God used Satan to punish wicked people. When Jesus Ransomed us, Satan’s grasp on us was eliminated. Every time “God” killed someone, it needs to be understood that he never killed anybody. In exodus, you’ll notice it was THE ANGEL OF DEATH who killed the first born. As it is stated by St. Augustine “If God gave Satan a free hand, no man would be left alive”. When people sinned in the OT, they were punished. God allowed Satan domain. The days were horrible and that is why is is important to understand THE SIGNIFICANCE OF CHRIST’S SACRIFICE. When Christ took on the sins of the world, Satan cannot slaughter us anymore.

Christ came to “to destroy the works of the devil” (1 John 3:8), Recall that

“the whole world is in the power of the evil one”, (1 John 5: 19)

It is also why I want to stress that atheists are not the Christian’s enemy rather:
‘we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places’ (Ephesians 6:12).

DO YOU GET IT NOW?
[/quote]

So Satan acted as God’s hit-man, so to speak? Hmm I hadn’t considered that. Why didn’t god do it himself, though?

I also want to get more into the sacrifice of Christ, but I want to know more about this OT God/Satan dynamic first.[/quote]

I wouldn’t say hit man, but sort of. He certainly worked for God.

When Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they were bound by the Law. Under the Law, people could be punished with death FOR sinning. Adam and Eve chose this and after they made their decision they were banished from paradise and refused the TREE OF LIFE

"So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the TREE OF LIFE’-Genesis 3 23-24

As it is written when Jesus said ‘Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.’ -John 5: 45-46
Moses Represents the Law. Under Mosaic Law, death penalties were enforced. So by choosing the Law, judgement was exorcised by God but through the Devil. The devil isn’t very nice.

Now the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is metaphorically and literally meant to be understood as MAN CHOOSING SATAN OVER GOD. This is why the days of the OT sucked so bad and why people always were getting slaughtered. The TREE OF LIFE is to be understood as Jesus Christ. As it is written when the Savior said:

‘No one cannot serve two masters’-Matthew 6:24

This is why once we chose the Tree of Knowledge of Good and evil, we were denied the tree of life.

Now recall that when adam and eve ate from the tree of knowledge it is written

‘THEIR EYES WERE OPENED’ -Genesis 3:4-7

We see the parallel in the New Testament after the Resurrection when meets Cleopas he breaks the bread, The Holy Eucharist, and it is written:

When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed and broke it and gave it to them. And THEIR EYES WERE OPENED , and they recognized him. And he vanished from their sight.-Luke 24:30-32

The Holy Eucharist is Christs Body, and the Fruit from the Tree of Life, who represents Christ. This is why Catholics hold it to so much esteem.
[/quote]

Hmm… and about Christ’s sacrifice. Why was it necessary for Jesus to die in order for God to forgive us? he can do anything, yes? Does that not include unconditional forgiveness?

543

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
How does dwelling on this help you or your cause? If God doesn’t exist, why bother painting something that doesn’t exist as evil? If God does exist, then you are just going further away from him. I notice no atheist dares to read the teachings of Jesus and its obvious because they agree with him and admire him.
[/quote]

According to you, he exists, so for you to say that my side has the biggest killers sounds suspiciously like you doubt the existence of your God. Surely you, as a Christian, must think that more death has occurred in the name of God than for any other reason. No mere atheist, even if we were to include Hitler, has managed genocide on a planetary scale. I can’t name a single figure (who supposedly exists) more efficient or more creative at killing than Yahweh. Can you?

I have my disagreements with Jesus, but they aren’t quite to the scale of, say, God killing 14,700 people for complaining about all the Killing he does. (Numbers 16)[/quote]

You need to understand THEOLOGICAL CONTEXT and THE SIGNIFICANCE OF CHRIST AS THE NEW JUDGE before you make any accusations against God. Okay let me explain something to you and I will give you Biblical Scripture. If you refer to 1 Chronicles 21: 1 you will notice this passage:

‘Then SATAN stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel.’

In a parallel passage 2 Samuel 24:1 you will notice a similar statement:

‘Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.”’

What explains this? Well if you refer to the new testament Jesus says this
“Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.”-John 12:31

Who was the former ruler? Well Satan etymologically means “accuser”. On this note it explains a lot in the OT.

Prior to the coming of Christ, the days were extremely dark. Christs sacrifice was significant because prior to his coming, God’s judgement was exorcised by SATAN. When people sinned, it was not God who killed them, but SATAN. God’s ANGER in the old testament is synonymous with Satan. God used Satan to punish wicked people. When Jesus Ransomed us, Satan’s grasp on us was eliminated. Every time “God” killed someone, it needs to be understood that he never killed anybody. In exodus, you’ll notice it was THE ANGEL OF DEATH who killed the first born. As it is stated by St. Augustine “If God gave Satan a free hand, no man would be left alive”. When people sinned in the OT, they were punished. God allowed Satan domain. The days were horrible and that is why is is important to understand THE SIGNIFICANCE OF CHRIST’S SACRIFICE. When Christ took on the sins of the world, Satan cannot slaughter us anymore.

Christ came to “to destroy the works of the devil” (1 John 3:8), Recall that

“the whole world is in the power of the evil one”, (1 John 5: 19)

It is also why I want to stress that atheists are not the Christian’s enemy rather:
‘we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places’ (Ephesians 6:12).

DO YOU GET IT NOW?
[/quote]

So Satan acted as God’s hit-man, so to speak? Hmm I hadn’t considered that. Why didn’t god do it himself, though?

I also want to get more into the sacrifice of Christ, but I want to know more about this OT God/Satan dynamic first.[/quote]

I wouldn’t say hit man, but sort of. He certainly worked for God.

When Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they were bound by the Law. Under the Law, people could be punished with death FOR sinning. Adam and Eve chose this and after they made their decision they were banished from paradise and refused the TREE OF LIFE

"So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the TREE OF LIFE’-Genesis 3 23-24

As it is written when Jesus said ‘Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.’ -John 5: 45-46
Moses Represents the Law. Under Mosaic Law, death penalties were enforced. So by choosing the Law, judgement was exorcised by God but through the Devil. The devil isn’t very nice.

Now the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is metaphorically and literally meant to be understood as MAN CHOOSING SATAN OVER GOD. This is why the days of the OT sucked so bad and why people always were getting slaughtered. The TREE OF LIFE is to be understood as Jesus Christ. As it is written when the Savior said:

‘No one cannot serve two masters’-Matthew 6:24

This is why once we chose the Tree of Knowledge of Good and evil, we were denied the tree of life.

Now recall that when adam and eve ate from the tree of knowledge it is written

‘THEIR EYES WERE OPENED’ -Genesis 3:4-7

We see the parallel in the New Testament after the Resurrection when meets Cleopas he breaks the bread, The Holy Eucharist, and it is written:

When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed and broke it and gave it to them. And THEIR EYES WERE OPENED , and they recognized him. And he vanished from their sight.-Luke 24:30-32

The Holy Eucharist is Christs Body, and the Fruit from the Tree of Life, who represents Christ. This is why Catholics hold it to so much esteem.
[/quote]

Hmm… and about Christ’s sacrifice. Why was it necessary for Jesus to die in order for God to forgive us? he can do anything, yes? Does that not include unconditional forgiveness? [/quote]

God cannot do things outside of his nature. God said from the very beginning that sin requires death. So no God cannot forgive without giving of a life. Jesus was the only one to satisfy God’s just wrath in a perfect way. The blood of goats and sheep could never completely take away the sins of the world, but the Son of the Living God can, through his one time sacrifice.

And now no more sacrifices are needed.

544

[quote]forbes wrote:God cannot do things outside of his nature. God said from the very beginning that sin requires death. So no God cannot forgive without giving of a life. Jesus was the only one to satisfy God’s just wrath in a perfect way. The blood of goats and sheep could never completely take away the sins of the world, but the Son of the Living God can, through his one time sacrifice.

And now no more sacrifices are needed. [/quote]This is correct. Only Christ was both God and man and hence able to both die as a man AND provide satisfaction beyond Himself by virtue of His divinity. Another mere man could only die for Himself as they all eventually do. A divine man NOT descended from Adam was required and was provided. Blessed be the name of the Lord.

545

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:God cannot do things outside of his nature. God said from the very beginning that sin requires death. So no God cannot forgive without giving of a life. Jesus was the only one to satisfy God’s just wrath in a perfect way. The blood of goats and sheep could never completely take away the sins of the world, but the Son of the Living God can, through his one time sacrifice.

And now no more sacrifices are needed. [/quote]This is correct. Only Christ was both God and man and hence able to both die as a man AND provide satisfaction beyond Himself by virtue of His divinity. Another mere man could only die for Himself as they all eventually do. A divine man NOT descended from Adam was required and was provided. Blessed be the name of the Lord.
[/quote]

God is a God of Justice. He required an equal sacrifice. Nothing more. Man for man. Forbes is correct.

546

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
How does dwelling on this help you or your cause? If God doesn’t exist, why bother painting something that doesn’t exist as evil? If God does exist, then you are just going further away from him. I notice no atheist dares to read the teachings of Jesus and its obvious because they agree with him and admire him.
[/quote]

According to you, he exists, so for you to say that my side has the biggest killers sounds suspiciously like you doubt the existence of your God. Surely you, as a Christian, must think that more death has occurred in the name of God than for any other reason. No mere atheist, even if we were to include Hitler, has managed genocide on a planetary scale. I can’t name a single figure (who supposedly exists) more efficient or more creative at killing than Yahweh. Can you?

I have my disagreements with Jesus, but they aren’t quite to the scale of, say, God killing 14,700 people for complaining about all the Killing he does. (Numbers 16)[/quote]

You need to understand THEOLOGICAL CONTEXT and THE SIGNIFICANCE OF CHRIST AS THE NEW JUDGE before you make any accusations against God. Okay let me explain something to you and I will give you Biblical Scripture. If you refer to 1 Chronicles 21: 1 you will notice this passage:

‘Then SATAN stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel.’

In a parallel passage 2 Samuel 24:1 you will notice a similar statement:

‘Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.”’

What explains this? Well if you refer to the new testament Jesus says this
“Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.”-John 12:31

Who was the former ruler? Well Satan etymologically means “accuser”. On this note it explains a lot in the OT.

Prior to the coming of Christ, the days were extremely dark. Christs sacrifice was significant because prior to his coming, God’s judgement was exorcised by SATAN. When people sinned, it was not God who killed them, but SATAN. God’s ANGER in the old testament is synonymous with Satan. God used Satan to punish wicked people. When Jesus Ransomed us, Satan’s grasp on us was eliminated. Every time “God” killed someone, it needs to be understood that he never killed anybody. In exodus, you’ll notice it was THE ANGEL OF DEATH who killed the first born. As it is stated by St. Augustine “If God gave Satan a free hand, no man would be left alive”. When people sinned in the OT, they were punished. God allowed Satan domain. The days were horrible and that is why is is important to understand THE SIGNIFICANCE OF CHRIST’S SACRIFICE. When Christ took on the sins of the world, Satan cannot slaughter us anymore.

Christ came to “to destroy the works of the devil” (1 John 3:8), Recall that

“the whole world is in the power of the evil one”, (1 John 5: 19)

It is also why I want to stress that atheists are not the Christian’s enemy rather:
‘we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places’ (Ephesians 6:12).

DO YOU GET IT NOW?
[/quote]

So Satan acted as God’s hit-man, so to speak? Hmm I hadn’t considered that. Why didn’t god do it himself, though?

I also want to get more into the sacrifice of Christ, but I want to know more about this OT God/Satan dynamic first.[/quote]

I wouldn’t say hit man, but sort of. He certainly worked for God.

When Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, they were bound by the Law. Under the Law, people could be punished with death FOR sinning. Adam and Eve chose this and after they made their decision they were banished from paradise and refused the TREE OF LIFE

"So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the TREE OF LIFE’-Genesis 3 23-24

As it is written when Jesus said ‘Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.’ -John 5: 45-46
Moses Represents the Law. Under Mosaic Law, death penalties were enforced. So by choosing the Law, judgement was exorcised by God but through the Devil. The devil isn’t very nice.

Now the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is metaphorically and literally meant to be understood as MAN CHOOSING SATAN OVER GOD. This is why the days of the OT sucked so bad and why people always were getting slaughtered. The TREE OF LIFE is to be understood as Jesus Christ. As it is written when the Savior said:

‘No one cannot serve two masters’-Matthew 6:24

This is why once we chose the Tree of Knowledge of Good and evil, we were denied the tree of life.

Now recall that when adam and eve ate from the tree of knowledge it is written

‘THEIR EYES WERE OPENED’ -Genesis 3:4-7

We see the parallel in the New Testament after the Resurrection when meets Cleopas he breaks the bread, The Holy Eucharist, and it is written:

When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed and broke it and gave it to them. And THEIR EYES WERE OPENED , and they recognized him. And he vanished from their sight.-Luke 24:30-32

The Holy Eucharist is Christs Body, and the Fruit from the Tree of Life, who represents Christ. This is why Catholics hold it to so much esteem.
[/quote]

Hmm… and about Christ’s sacrifice. Why was it necessary for Jesus to die in order for God to forgive us? he can do anything, yes? Does that not include unconditional forgiveness? [/quote]

Christ’s sacrifice wasn’t just some kind of Jewish Mosaic Blood Sacrifice. Recall, Jesus was a a priest in the order of Melchizedek. Since Melchizedek came before any priest of AARON, he was superior the Jewish High Priests:

‘For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2and to him Abraham apportioned a tenth part of everything. He is first, by translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then he is also king of Salem, that is, king of peace. 3He is without father or mother or genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest forever.’ -Hebrews 7: 1

Christ’s coming was A REVELATION OF GOD’S NATURE. Prior to his coming, people didn’t really know God. When he came, he revealed who God really was. He was the image of God.

He didn’t just come to die FOR us. God is so understanding, he identifies with humanity. God also DIED AS ONE OF US. He wanted to show us his solidarity and love for us. God wanted to show us he knows how it feels to suffer and to feel agony and sorrow.

547

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:God cannot do things outside of his nature. God said from the very beginning that sin requires death. So no God cannot forgive without giving of a life. Jesus was the only one to satisfy God’s just wrath in a perfect way. The blood of goats and sheep could never completely take away the sins of the world, but the Son of the Living God can, through his one time sacrifice.

And now no more sacrifices are needed. [/quote]This is correct. Only Christ was both God and man and hence able to both die as a man AND provide satisfaction beyond Himself by virtue of His divinity. Another mere man could only die for Himself as they all eventually do. A divine man NOT descended from Adam was required and was provided. Blessed be the name of the Lord.
[/quote]

God is a God of Justice. He required an equal sacrifice. Nothing more. Man for man. Forbes is correct.
[/quote]

If God were sole a God of Justice, he would not have died on the cross. God is a God of love. You are completely wrong.

548

[quote]honest_lifter wrote: Man for man. Forbes is correct.
[/quote]One man, even a perfect one, can only pay for one man. Trust me. I know Forbes quite well. He believes Jesus of Nazareth was God manifested in humanity. No I am not doin this with you =]

549

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
How old is the earth pat?[/quote]

Something can be both round and flat.

LOL! and what a bachelor can be both married and not married ? lol

550

[quote]silee wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
How old is the earth pat?[/quote]

Something can be both round and flat.

LOL! and what a bachelor can be both married and not married ? lol[/quote]

Can Man be God? No. Can God be Man? No. …But who was Jesus?

Can a virgin conceive? No… But who was Mary?

If someone dies, can they be alive? No…But who was Lazarus?

Can 3=1? No. Can 1=3? No. But who is the Trinity?

Is it possible, logic is insufficient in understanding God? Is it possible that God isn’t bound to the Laws of Man?

551

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]silee wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
How old is the earth pat?[/quote]

Something can be both round and flat.

LOL! and what a bachelor can be both married and not married ? lol[/quote]

Can Man be God? No. Can God be Man? No. …But who was Jesus?

Can a virgin conceive? No… But who was Mary?

If someone dies, can they be alive? No…But who was Lazarus?

Can 3=1? No. Can 1=3? No. But who is the Trinity?

Is it possible, logic is insufficient in understanding God? Is it possible that God isn’t bound to the Laws of Man?
[/quote]

Yes its possible but then there is no talking about it. YOu have to remain silent, since to understand we have to have sense. If you toss out logic then there is no way to understand what one is talking about. I am aware that in quantum mechanics light can be both a wave and a particle each precluding the other.

If you hold to these statements of theology then you are left with nonsense (in the sense of communicating meaning in an everyday sense), and that is why I said you have to remain silent.

552

Thinking back on the atheist/agnostic dispute that went on, I was surprised to find out that Dawkins describes himself as agnostic. I’ve always seen him offered up as an atheist.

553

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Thinking back on the atheist/agnostic dispute that went on, I was surprised to find out that Dawkins describes himself as agnostic. I’ve always seen him offered up as an atheist.[/quote]

He knows that atheism is an an untenable position because they Deny the existence of the Non-existent.

554

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Thinking back on the atheist/agnostic dispute that went on, I was surprised to find out that Dawkins describes himself as agnostic. I’ve always seen him offered up as an atheist.[/quote]
He acknowledges the fact that even though he believes the probability is slim to none, it is a possibility that a “god” exists.
So he’s Agnostic more in theory than practice.

Dawkins is a Humanist in practice.
Humanism seems to be the trend of leading intellectuals.
Coincidence?

555

[quote]iVoodoo wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Thinking back on the atheist/agnostic dispute that went on, I was surprised to find out that Dawkins describes himself as agnostic. I’ve always seen him offered up as an atheist.[/quote]
He acknowledges the fact that even though he believes the probability is slim to none, it is a possibility that a “god” exists.
So he’s Agnostic more in theory than practice.

Dawkins is a Humanist in practice.
Humanism seems to be the trend of leading intellectuals.
Coincidence?
[/quote]

I think it would be easier to just go with Deism in these threads sometimes.

556

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Thinking back on the atheist/agnostic dispute that went on, I was surprised to find out that Dawkins describes himself as agnostic. I’ve always seen him offered up as an atheist.[/quote]

He knows that atheism is an an untenable position because they Deny the existence of the Non-existent.[/quote]

There is nothing untenable in not believing in God and that is atheism. Do you believe in the existence of Unicorns? All atheism is doing is not believing in the existence of God. There is nothing untenable about that. But if you ask them for proof they can’t provide a necessarily true argument that God doesn’t exist. There is the problem of proving a negative statement.
By saying there is a possibility of God’s existence he is using inductive logic.

Just a point about atheist: some of them are the most moral of all following ethical dictates that value human being and their survival as a species.

557

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
You brought it up. Thought is was worth a reminder.
[/quote]

Actually, Push brought it up. You just took over for him.

It is analogous. If you really believe hitler was a christian, there’s nothing I can do about it. I mean, people still believe elvis is alive…

[quote]

I actually literally laughed out loud…

[quote]

Which part?

558

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

Hmm… and about Christ’s sacrifice. Why was it necessary for Jesus to die in order for God to forgive us? he can do anything, yes? Does that not include unconditional forgiveness? [/quote]

But wait…You read the bible right??? Not.

559

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]iVoodoo wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Thinking back on the atheist/agnostic dispute that went on, I was surprised to find out that Dawkins describes himself as agnostic. I’ve always seen him offered up as an atheist.[/quote]
He acknowledges the fact that even though he believes the probability is slim to none, it is a possibility that a “god” exists.
So he’s Agnostic more in theory than practice.

Dawkins is a Humanist in practice.
Humanism seems to be the trend of leading intellectuals.
Coincidence?
[/quote]

I think it would be easier to just go with Deism in these threads sometimes.[/quote]

deists are cowards…

560

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

That’s because Hitler wasn’t a Christian. Why don’t you understand this? If you put a Kobe Bryant Jersey on, does that make you Kobe Bryant?
[/quote]

According to what you define as a “true” Christian, he wasn’t a Christian. Then again, according to Hitler, YOU wouldn’t be a true Christian.

[/quote]

Hitler would be wrong. If anyone was confused, we would just examine Christs teaching about not killing people and loving your neighbor. A Christian is one who follows Christ.[/quote]

Sure, but lots of people interpret the bible in several different ways.

Even if you don’t consider him a Christian, his followers did. Hitler used Christianity to achieve his goals. Would you agree that this makes an objective moral code a dangerous thing?[/quote]

Which does not make him a christian. Ijit.