By the way (for the sake of reference) this was me, several months before my 42nd birthday, close to my leanest condition ever.
Assuming that you train hard with heavy weight with enthousiasm and seriousness there is NO WAY you won’t have '‘ripped’'abs if you eat what you should eat.
Having the food you should have is another thing. It can be impossible if you live with your family that doesn’t care about nutrition and will never understand it or if you don’t have access to store with good choices at a reasonable price with an appropriate income. You also got to have a good kitchen. You can’t cook good healthy food in tiny crappy kitchen that you share with 5 other roommates.
[quote]MikeManos wrote:
I’m specifically referring to the non competitor, or the individual who uses training, diet and lifestyle to build and maintain a healthy and aesthetic physique.[/quote]
I think this touches back to Dan John’s concept of work-rest-play-pray and how it talks about balancing life in the gym and outside of it.
I have a pot of meatballs cooking in sauce going-on four hours as we speak, and I understand that if I didn’t eat spaghetti and meatballs, I’d have better abs, but my meatball recipe is fucking awesome and ripped abs are not worth giving them up.
[quote]MinotaurXXX wrote:
it’s fine to let your appearance take a back seat to performance as long as you don’t go too far regarding fat gain.[/quote]
That’s the approach many old school lifters took. Bill Pearl once told Dave Draper, “You have to get out of shape top get into shape”. Meaning it’s fine to bulk up and get a bit soft in order to train harder/heavier and build more muscle, knowing you will honestly lean down at some point.
They are worth it. This is like shaving your head when you’re 20. You won’t understand the worth until they are a long way gone!
I think, in addition to this topic, along with debating on if ripped abs are worth it or not, I think it’s worth noting that dieting down to that level IS worth it, even if you don’t keep it. A lot of guys who have never even gotten close to abs love to have an opinion on the worth of them, but in reality, there is a lot of valuable lessons to be learned in GETTING that lean. I know Stu used to talk about how much one learns from the process, and how one tends to not let themselves ever get too fat after that.
It’s just a different kind of discipline versus loading up 500lbs and walking it out, and both are valuable.
[quote]jasmincar wrote:
Assuming that you train hard with heavy weight with enthousiasm and seriousness there is NO WAY you won’t have '‘ripped’'abs if you eat what you should eat.
Having the food you should have is another thing. It can be impossible if you live with your family that doesn’t care about nutrition and will never understand it or if you don’t have access to store with good choices at a reasonable price with an appropriate income. You also got to have a good kitchen. You can’t cook good healthy food in tiny crappy kitchen that you share with 5 other roommates. [/quote]
I’ve lived off of a slow cooker and foreman grill for 2 months eating pretty well. What else do you need?
I guess it depends on how much you need to suffer to get to “ripped” (and also what you actually consider “ripped” to be).
I’ve always thought a decent set of abs makes the physique, but then I’m probably biased as I have the genetics to stay lean easily. I might feel differently if I wasn’t such a waif.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]jasmincar wrote:
Assuming that you train hard with heavy weight with enthousiasm and seriousness there is NO WAY you won’t have '‘ripped’'abs if you eat what you should eat.
Having the food you should have is another thing. It can be impossible if you live with your family that doesn’t care about nutrition and will never understand it or if you don’t have access to store with good choices at a reasonable price with an appropriate income. You also got to have a good kitchen. You can’t cook good healthy food in tiny crappy kitchen that you share with 5 other roommates. [/quote]
I’ve lived off of a slow cooker and foreman grill for 2 months eating pretty well. What else do you need?
[/quote]
This lol.
2.5lbs beef or pork roast, how ever many potatoes and carrots you need to hit carbs slow cooked over night while you sleep. That’s easy as can be and 5 8oz protein and how ever many carbs you need meal with a about 7-10g of fat per meal if you stay with the leaner roasts.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]jasmincar wrote:
Assuming that you train hard with heavy weight with enthousiasm and seriousness there is NO WAY you won’t have '‘ripped’'abs if you eat what you should eat.
Having the food you should have is another thing. It can be impossible if you live with your family that doesn’t care about nutrition and will never understand it or if you don’t have access to store with good choices at a reasonable price with an appropriate income. You also got to have a good kitchen. You can’t cook good healthy food in tiny crappy kitchen that you share with 5 other roommates. [/quote]
I’ve lived off of a slow cooker and foreman grill for 2 months eating pretty well. What else do you need?
[/quote]
The George Foreman grill…man I used to live off that thing. Haven’t used one lately but it sure brings back memories.
What I find very convenient now is to just grill outside or broil at least several days worth of meat, chicken or fish and eat it cold and sliced up over a salad of greens. When dieting down I usually go through industrial sized family tubs of baby spinach and mixed greens all by myself.
Another big staple during this period in canned skipjack tuna, hardboiled eggs and chicken sausage. I just take care of the protein and add as much (preferably green) ruffage into the mix to compliment the meal plan. Even when doing an extreme diet it’s virtually impossible to overeat green vegetables.
Come to think of it, talking like this doesn’t seem to make dieting down much of a big deal anymore.
As a last side note, I also find that if I keep each meal under 500 calories (even 400 calories or less) the fat comes off quicker. Maybe it’s just me but I find eating over 500 calories per meal, regardless of how it’s constituted, either completely shuts down fat loss of may even lead to fat storage.
I’ve been chasing the Hugh Jackman look for a couple of years. This past spring/summer, I finally got my abs visible and while I wouldn’t call myself Wolverine shredded, I definitely looked impressive to anyone who saw me with my shirt off. So I would say it’s kind of worth it, especially if you like looking better than most guys and having your body be a conversation piece at the pool or beach.
Superficial reason for sure, but I’d be lying if I said it didn’t feel great to show it off.
[quote]MikeManos wrote:
If there is such a thing as visually devouring someone sexually, that moment had to be it. =)[/quote]
It’s great when that happens. I was walking my dog shirtless at a beach park this summer, and two 18 year old girls jogging by me had the deer in the headlights look. As a 48 year old guy, I can’t tell you how great that makes the rest of your day.
[quote]adrencg wrote:
[quote]MikeManos wrote:
If there is such a thing as visually devouring someone sexually, that moment had to be it. =)[/quote]
It’s great when that happens. I was walking my dog shirtless at a beach park this summer, and two 18 year old girls jogging by me had the deer in the headlights look. As a 48 year old guy, I can’t tell you how great that makes the rest of your day.
[/quote]
It’s also another reason why I feel that women are full of it when they say that this look is not a big (visually anyway) positive, and that when they see a man with ripped abs they have an immediate negative impression of him (yes, I’ve heard a few say that). Granted these were young spring chickens you ran across that day walking your dog, and they’re impression would generally be different from an older woman’s, but still - it’s a powerful look, especially when you’re not superficial about it, and you are a whole lot more than just about looks.
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Right now they look fantastic, and I’m lean enough to see veins through my quads, abs, and everywhere else. I’m also as strong as I’ve ever been. I’ve counted absolutely no calories to do this, aside from making sure I just eat enough to continue to grow. So for me, since the only real effort I have to make is in the gym, it’s certainly worthwhile.
[/quote]
I hate to go to this direction, but it does need to be said: IMO, it’s completely disingenuous and frankly inappropriate to come on a forum and post this type of stuff when one is using assistance. It gives a false sense to others regarding what they should expect in the course of their training.
I have no problem with people making choices regarding the types of things to put in their body and do not think that using assistance means that the hard work they put in somehow means less. But to bring your personal experience into the issue of maintaining a good physique and leanness is wrong.
[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Right now they look fantastic, and I’m lean enough to see veins through my quads, abs, and everywhere else. I’m also as strong as I’ve ever been. I’ve counted absolutely no calories to do this, aside from making sure I just eat enough to continue to grow. So for me, since the only real effort I have to make is in the gym, it’s certainly worthwhile.
[/quote]
I hate to go to this direction, but it does need to be said: IMO, it’s completely disingenuous and frankly inappropriate to come on a forum and post this type of stuff when one is using assistance. It gives a false sense to others regarding what they should expect in the course of their training.
I have no problem with people making choices regarding the types of things to put in their body and do not think that using assistance means that the hard work they put in somehow means less. But to bring your personal experience into the issue of maintaining a good physique and leanness is wrong.
[/quote]
Point made.
In this case however it is relevant, since we are talking abs and not extreme muscular development with abdominals visible. Assisted or not, anyone can get down to low digit body fat (without drugs) to expose this vascular condition, albeit some have a longer and harder road than others, hence the title of this tread. Be that as it may, it is attainable with or without assistance.
And yes, there is no doubt that pharmaceuticals greatly can help shed unwanted body fat and reach this condition much quicker, and with potentially even greater vascularity. But it still takes effort and dieting, so the question of this thread is still relevant to users of said assistance.
Therefore, someone giving their opinion on the subject, even though they are assisted and have that advantage going for them, only adds perspective to this discussion.
Wouldn’t you agree?
Without some type of disclaimer or qualifier, I do not think that it provides a helpful contribution. It distorts the discussion–it’s roughly as useful as the types of “20 days to huge arms” articles that are in muscle mags.
I believe most on this forum are familiar with Flip’s posts and he has been quite open about his training and supplements so for me, it doesn’t qualify as disingenuous. I believe he also had abs prior to “assistance” and that certainly qualifies him to comment on getting and keeping abs natty.
I’m just starting to see abs of any quality, and it has been worth it. I think the biggest requirement is patience - you can’t get there by cranking out 1,000 sit ups a day for a week, it takes a lot more patience and discipline than that.
[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Right now they look fantastic, and I’m lean enough to see veins through my quads, abs, and everywhere else. I’m also as strong as I’ve ever been. I’ve counted absolutely no calories to do this, aside from making sure I just eat enough to continue to grow. So for me, since the only real effort I have to make is in the gym, it’s certainly worthwhile.
[/quote]
I hate to go to this direction, but it does need to be said: IMO, it’s completely disingenuous and frankly inappropriate to come on a forum and post this type of stuff when one is using assistance. It gives a false sense to others regarding what they should expect in the course of their training.
I have no problem with people making choices regarding the types of things to put in their body and do not think that using assistance means that the hard work they put in somehow means less. But to bring your personal experience into the issue of maintaining a good physique and leanness is wrong.
[/quote]
You don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m attaching a picture of what I looked like naturally, summer of 2014. I have never lost sight of my abs in my life. Hard to tell in this picture because of lighting, but I have visible ab veins here as well, obviously decently cut, and the shoulder and arm veins are pretty easy to see too. I’ve been assisted for just over a year, but I’ve been lifting on and off for 14 years.
Seriously man, what did I do to offend you? This isn’t the first time you’ve ripped on me like this. And I don’t see any cause for it.
In all honesty (and I believe this is the second time I’ve had to mention this issue), I don’t think of this as ripping on you so much as just providing the disclaimer you yourself should be providing. I would do the same to anyone else who does so, but you’re fairly singular in making posts about your own results in threads like this where you provide a summary of your results that does indeed reek of the muscle mag type of “get these results!” that probably aren’t realistic for the unassisted lifter. Not that having abs while being strong is impossible, but that your responses carry the type of braggadocio that goes beyond what would be normal expectations. So I have the same hesitance about its value as a worthwhile contribution as I do for the type of muscle mag things I referenced above.
So it’s not a matter of my disrespecting you individually–your posts just have, now on two occasions, stood out in the regard that I take issue with.
[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
Without some type of disclaimer or qualifier, I do not think that it provides a helpful contribution. It distorts the discussion–it’s roughly as useful as the types of “20 days to huge arms” articles that are in muscle mags.[/quote]
I have 4600 posts on this forum. I’d be willing to bet I have talked about drugs in AT LEAST a few hundred of them. And the fact is, drugs only comprise a very short period in my training history. Less than 10%. Do I seriously need to start every post I write with this? Do I need to say ‘flipcollar the drug abuser checking in’? I generally only talk about it when I believe it needs to be stated, and in this case, I didn’t feel it was necessary. My post history is not private. I have been more than open enough about this stuff. I don’t masquerade as anyone but who I am.
Deal with it.
[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
In all honesty (and I believe this is the second time I’ve had to mention this issue), I don’t think of this as ripping on you so much as just providing the disclaimer you yourself should be providing. I would do the same to anyone else who does so, but you’re fairly singular in making posts about your own results in threads like this where you provide a summary of your results that does indeed reek of the muscle mag type of “get these results!” that probably aren’t realistic for the unassisted lifter. Not that having abs while being strong is impossible, but that your responses carry the type of braggadocio that goes beyond what would be normal expectations. So I have the same hesitance about its value as a worthwhile contribution as I do for the type of muscle mag things I referenced above.
So it’s not a matter of my disrespecting you individually–your posts just have, now on two occasions, stood out in the regard that I take issue with.[/quote]
So I wasn’t strong with abs in the picture I just posted?
Cool.