Riding the Line Between BBing & PLing

Training Bodybuilding
341

[quote]htargett wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]htargett wrote:
Meat, I have a problem keeping the bar on my back during back squats; it rolls off. I’m not sure if I just need to add mass to my back. Do you have any favourite movements to thicken up the rhomboids? Thanks.[/quote]

it actually rolls off?? i squat with a pretty high bar position. what are your arms doing during your squats?? i take a pretty narrow grip and then pull my elbows down and forward to lock the bar into place. plenty of chicks with little to no upper back mass squat fine. it’s probably just how you are holding the bar. do you have any vids of your squat?? i could help more by seeing it.

[/quote]

It doesn’t roll off, per se, that was an exaggeration on my part. It just seems like a lot of pressure goes on my wrists and the bar doesn’t seem secure on my back. I will try pulling my elbows down and forward. Thanks Meat :)[/quote]

seriously though… get me a vid and i could help you more. PM me if you don’t want everyone seeing it.

342

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]htargett wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]htargett wrote:
Meat, I have a problem keeping the bar on my back during back squats; it rolls off. I’m not sure if I just need to add mass to my back. Do you have any favourite movements to thicken up the rhomboids? Thanks.[/quote]

it actually rolls off?? i squat with a pretty high bar position. what are your arms doing during your squats?? i take a pretty narrow grip and then pull my elbows down and forward to lock the bar into place. plenty of chicks with little to no upper back mass squat fine. it’s probably just how you are holding the bar. do you have any vids of your squat?? i could help more by seeing it.

[/quote]

It doesn’t roll off, per se, that was an exaggeration on my part. It just seems like a lot of pressure goes on my wrists and the bar doesn’t seem secure on my back. I will try pulling my elbows down and forward. Thanks Meat :)[/quote]

seriously though… get me a vid and i could help you more. PM me if you don’t want everyone seeing it. [/quote]

Thanks Meat, I’ll see what I can do. Is it possible to upload mobile phone videos to youtube? I don’t have a proper camera.

343

[quote]htargett wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]htargett wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]htargett wrote:
Meat, I have a problem keeping the bar on my back during back squats; it rolls off. I’m not sure if I just need to add mass to my back. Do you have any favourite movements to thicken up the rhomboids? Thanks.[/quote]

it actually rolls off?? i squat with a pretty high bar position. what are your arms doing during your squats?? i take a pretty narrow grip and then pull my elbows down and forward to lock the bar into place. plenty of chicks with little to no upper back mass squat fine. it’s probably just how you are holding the bar. do you have any vids of your squat?? i could help more by seeing it.

[/quote]

It doesn’t roll off, per se, that was an exaggeration on my part. It just seems like a lot of pressure goes on my wrists and the bar doesn’t seem secure on my back. I will try pulling my elbows down and forward. Thanks Meat :)[/quote]

seriously though… get me a vid and i could help you more. PM me if you don’t want everyone seeing it. [/quote]

Thanks Meat, I’ll see what I can do. Is it possible to upload mobile phone videos to youtube? I don’t have a proper camera.[/quote]

yep… quit a few people do it that way. don’t ask me how though:)

344

Good stuff man, that DL looked pretty tough

MP looked effortless, looks like 315 is within your reach

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[quote]trav123456 wrote:
Good stuff man, that DL looked pretty tough

MP looked effortless, looks like 315 is within your reach[/quote]

the medium bands deload really quickly. you have to be fast off the floor or they will bite you in the ass. right about knee level you can feel the tension totally let go.

yeah… i’m hoping to hit that 315 without much trouble.

thanks hoss!!!

346

Just echoing what others have said, I don’t post in this thread much, but I definitely read it. Really, it’s one of 2 or 3 “must-read” threads on this site for me, along with Stu’s and Alpha’s.

347

[quote]doubleh wrote:
Just echoing what others have said, I don’t post in this thread much, but I definitely read it. Really, it’s one of 2 or 3 “must-read” threads on this site for me, along with Stu’s and Alpha’s.

[/quote]

thank you. that’s very nice of you to say. I feel like this forum needs more actual lifting and less talking about nonesense.

i’m like you… i read a lot but don’t post unless i feel really strongly about something. also, i do my best to not give unsolicited advice. if someone asks for it, i’m always happy to help. usually i just stick to posting my training and hoping it may get people asking questions.

thanks again.

348

Ok I am joining Meat in his quest for these Wendler numbers.

Squat: I have done 500 for a set of 10 in the past. Video bellow. This was about 2 months ago. I managed to tweek my shoulders by letting my head drop forward after rep 9, which caused the bar to roll back a little bit. Got to work on staying tight and getting the breathing down.

[video]1619[/video]

My plan to take it to 20 reps is this: I feel like the only way to attain that kind of volume with this weight is to get my body accustomed to it gradually over time. I intend to work with 500 until I can get it for 5X5 for a total of 25 reps in one squatting session. From there, I will play with the set/rep layout untill I can hit 5X10, or 50 total reps with it in one session. I think that if I can get 50 good reps with it in one night, then I should be good for one all out 20 rep set.

Deadlift: I have done 500 for 10 here also. These were with no wraps. Chalk and belt only. I paused at the bottom to catch my breath and stretch out my glutes/hams/low back after about rep 5 I think. This was done before I got my camera, so no video, yet. I plan on attacking this one the same way as the squat, with the difference being that I will be focusing on rack pulls untill I hit the squat I think. Trying to do the full range deads and squats at once seems like a recipe for failure to me. I also have some hitching issues I want to work out first.

[video]1656[/video]

Bench: I tried 315 last night and banged out 14. It was pretty damn hard to stay tight for the whole set. Gotta work on that. I think I will attack this one the same as the squat and dead.

[video]1699[/video]

Standing military press: This one, is a bit different I think. I have never actually done strict standing military presses before. I managed 275 the other day, but after looking at the video, I saw that I had much more knee drive than I thought I had. The only standing pressing work that I have ever done is the clean and jerk from the hang, and regular clean and jerks. So, unlearning this exploading thing is going to take a bit I think. I am pretty sure I have the shoulder stregnth for it, as I have seated DB military pressed 140s for sets of 5, and done seated pin presses with 315 for a double before. I also need to figure out what base to use in order to avoid leg cramps/spasms. I played with this throughout the session, and will simply have to keep experimenting with it.

[video]1698[/video]

Dips: I tried those for the first time in over a year the other night. I ditched these a while ago due to shoulder pain. I think this was caused by excessive forward lean as Meat said. Staying upright, or close to it, helped a good bit. I stayed with bodyweight here and am going to slowly build up with them.

The curls: Ok, I absolutely HATE barbell curls. I will start on these light and see if my wrists can take it. Hopefully they will adapt. If not, I will sub in a wrapless 140LB dumbell hammer curl for 10 reps per arm.

Pull-ups: Alright, this will be the hardest one by a long mile. I have not worked on these in quite a while, and my 285LB fat ass is not going to like it. I believe I am going to have to hit all the others first, and then drop weight for this. The best I have ever done with pull-ups is a bodyweight set of 19 at 235LBs. This one will be a long time comming I think.

I think this was everything. I find it rather odd that we have a horizontal and verticle press, but only a verticle pull(the bench, MP, and pull-ups repsectively). I know the deadlift is a pull, but I have always thought of it as more of a total body lift or lower body lift, where as the previous three are clearly upper body dominant in the extreme. So, I am adding a 300LB Kroc row for a set of 12 or more each arm. I feel this should be in there because Kroc is the only dude I have ever seen do it, and by God, we can’t let people be lonely can we?

[video]1691[/video]

[video]1692[/video]

The previous videos are me hitting 271.2LBs for 12 each arm. Only 10LBs shy of bodyweight, and on the way to 300.

As always, any advice, feedback or whatever is welcome. Now, lets get fucking huge.

EDIT: I will be attempting to hit all of these in a fresh state. I have not had a solid overall goal to shoot for in a while, so this should be fun.

349

I thought this thread was at max capacity for awesomeness, but DoveofWar08 just helped raise the bar.

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that’s awesome Dove!!! damn that’s a low bar position for a raw squat. that would destroy my arms. obviously works for you though. i definitely look forward to following your progress.

I have had the same issues with the strict military press. all i’ve done in the past is either seated presses or standing push presses. i’ve had to start really light and work up slowly to get used to the strict form. it’s very humbling considering i’ve done 405lb standing push presses and seated presses with almost 400lbs. i’m up for a challenge though.

i feel your pain on the curls:)

how tall are you?? you are a large mammal my friend. i used to weigh what you weigh but at 5’8" it was just too much.

351

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
that’s awesome Dove!!! damn that’s a low bar position for a raw squat. that would destroy my arms. obviously works for you though. i definitely look forward to following your progress. [/quote]

Thanks. Yeah, the bar position does take some getting used to, but once I learned it, my numbers jumped up very fast. It is not AS bad on your arms as you think, but it is very straining on the shoulders. I also think that one has to have a thick upper back to pull this form off. Otherwise, your wrists and elbows will take most of the weight. Even as heavy as I am, I still need the wrist wraps and elbow sleeves. There is also much less room for error with this than high bar I think. If your head moves much at all from the start, it will bring your shoulders along for the ride and just fuck up you bar placement. I would definately say that it is worth the effort to learn though.

Here I think its really just a matter of finding the base/foot position that works. I, like you, look forward to the challenge though.

[quote]
i feel your pain on the curls:)

how tall are you?? you are a large mammal my friend. i used to weigh what you weigh but at 5’8" it was just too much. [/quote]

The most height I can claim is 5’11’', its whaat my drivers license says anyway. I feel we both got short changed in the growth department here. The funny thing is, I feel like I can still hold more mass. I do feel that I have added an excessive amount of fat in my gut, but I suppose that is neccessary. I honestly want to get above 300LBs before I “cut” for the pull-ups though. Again, thanks for the kind words. I will be squating later tonight, so I will have some new videos to upload. I haven’t for sure figured out what my auxilary lifts will be after the squat. I think it will depend on how I feel, but I will attempt to give as detailed of a breakdown per session as you have. Happy lifting. :slight_smile:

352

[quote]DoveofWar08 wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
that’s awesome Dove!!! damn that’s a low bar position for a raw squat. that would destroy my arms. obviously works for you though. i definitely look forward to following your progress. [/quote]

Thanks. Yeah, the bar position does take some getting used to, but once I learned it, my numbers jumped up very fast. It is not AS bad on your arms as you think, but it is very straining on the shoulders. I also think that one has to have a thick upper back to pull this form off. Otherwise, your wrists and elbows will take most of the weight. Even as heavy as I am, I still need the wrist wraps and elbow sleeves. There is also much less room for error with this than high bar I think. If your head moves much at all from the start, it will bring your shoulders along for the ride and just fuck up you bar placement. I would definately say that it is worth the effort to learn though.

Here I think its really just a matter of finding the base/foot position that works. I, like you, look forward to the challenge though.

[quote]
i feel your pain on the curls:)

how tall are you?? you are a large mammal my friend. i used to weigh what you weigh but at 5’8" it was just too much. [/quote]

The most height I can claim is 5’11’', its whaat my drivers license says anyway. I feel we both got short changed in the growth department here. The funny thing is, I feel like I can still hold more mass. I do feel that I have added an excessive amount of fat in my gut, but I suppose that is neccessary. I honestly want to get above 300LBs before I “cut” for the pull-ups though. Again, thanks for the kind words. I will be squating later tonight, so I will have some new videos to upload. I haven’t for sure figured out what my auxilary lifts will be after the squat. I think it will depend on how I feel, but I will attempt to give as detailed of a breakdown per session as you have. Happy lifting. :)[/quote]

cool…cool…

i actually used to squat with a low bar position but it took it’s toll on my shoulders and arms. it basically Efffed up my bench sessions… and i can’t have that considering i’m such a BOF.

Also, you are more than welcome to post your training here but i also started a thread called “what consitutes strength??” in the powerlifting forum dedicated to this challenge. besides… i don’t think two fat guys are allowed in the bodybuilding forum at one time:)

do you compete at all in powerlifting?? if not, you should give it a shot. also, what are your 1 rep maxes on the big three?

353

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]DoveofWar08 wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
that’s awesome Dove!!! damn that’s a low bar position for a raw squat. that would destroy my arms. obviously works for you though. i definitely look forward to following your progress. [/quote]

Thanks. Yeah, the bar position does take some getting used to, but once I learned it, my numbers jumped up very fast. It is not AS bad on your arms as you think, but it is very straining on the shoulders. I also think that one has to have a thick upper back to pull this form off. Otherwise, your wrists and elbows will take most of the weight. Even as heavy as I am, I still need the wrist wraps and elbow sleeves. There is also much less room for error with this than high bar I think. If your head moves much at all from the start, it will bring your shoulders along for the ride and just fuck up you bar placement. I would definately say that it is worth the effort to learn though.

Here I think its really just a matter of finding the base/foot position that works. I, like you, look forward to the challenge though.

Squat: 585
Bench: 450
Deadlift: 600

I did compete in powerlifting some years ago(high school), but its been a little over 7 years since my last meet. I do sort of feel the inkling to get back on the platform though, and I ordered a singlet not long ago, so I think its gonna happen at some point.

I think I will post updates in both threads then.

354

HHHmmmmm… Were you stronger with the low bar, or high bar squat?

355

[quote]DoveofWar08 wrote:
HHHmmmmm… Were you stronger with the low bar, or high bar squat? [/quote]

hard to tell… the low bar hurt my shoulders and arms so much that i had to squat heavy sparingly. with the high(er) bar position i can squat whenever i want. I’ve hit 700 in knee wraps and a belt both ways.

356

DoW- Sorry if you posted it already, I scanned back and didn’t catch if you posted how much you weigh?

thx

357

Impressive DoW, you are a big boy. I felt the same way as meat watching that squat video, though: my shoulders practically started crying from here.

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[quote]SteelyD wrote:
DoW- Sorry if you posted it already, I scanned back and didn’t catch if you posted how much you weigh?

thx[/quote]

285LB the last I checked. I do not own a scale though, so this was either pre or post workout at some point last week. I do not recall exactly which. No worries, I’m the dude that typed on and on for almost a whole damn page :slight_smile:

359

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I have read other people mention on the behind the head should presses not to go down past mid ear. I notice that is roughly where you go to.

Is that on purpose or just where it is comfortable?

One of the best threads on the internet man.[/quote]

i’m actually doing BTN presses to improve my shoulder flexibility and strengthen the medial and posterior heads of the shoulder. hopefully in time i’ll be able to get the bar all the way down to my traps. it will be a long time before i can do these with heavy weight. i can see how someone could get injured doing these too heavy. i actually force my elbows out as i lower the weight in an attempt to get the bar lower.

everyone should do BTN presses as part of their shoulder routine for shoulder health and overall strength. i wish i had started to do them earlier. my shoulders have never felt better.

thanks hoss… i often wonder if i should continue posting in this thread. i don’t get many comments or questions. I’m open to any and all questions, comments or even criticisms.

i guess i don’t have enough arguements about whether to eat veggies or not:)
[/quote]

Oh wow because I have a lot of leg flexibility, ie I can stand on a platform and reach like a foot past my toes without bending my legs but my shoulder flexibility is absolute shit. I have done 150x5 military press and 135x9, but when I went to btn I literally couldn’t do it.If I just get in possition to do it I can barely get my arms back. Right now I am doing split jerks and db seated miltary press cause I stalled on barbell military. Should I incorporate btn mp? Also do you have any shoulder stretches you do for shoulder health? I want to be able to do btn jerks. Thanks I would really apprecaite it!

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Meat, I just wanted to drop in and say this thread is very inspiring and motivational. Great stuff in here, you and DOW are monsters, I’ve started browsing this just before i lift. Also, if you dont mind saying it on the thread, where are you located in VA? I’m in the Charlottesville area. Just curious where the strong guys are.