RI Superintendent to Fire All Teachers

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
41

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]Ratchet wrote:
No offense but EVERYONE else (other then people working for govt that is) gets paid based on Preformance, why shouldnt teachers ??[/quote]

It wouldn’t bother me…because my wife would reap the benefits of performance-based pay. She really enjoys teaching and actually puts extra hours and effort in helping her students and interacting with their parents(who tend to put too much faith and responsibility that is reserved for parents onto educators…education starts at home).

She is rewarded with being commended…and that is it.

[/quote]

Your wife is rare Big Boss hold on to her real tight. The one reward your wife is going to receive is a child who becomes very successful and will say I had a teacher once who stayed late to help me out. You can not put a price on that. This is why teachers teach, the issue is that they get fed up with all the crap they have to put up with from Administration, the Parents, and the Students who learn from their parents.

Teachers are treated like crap as we are seeing on this thread. I put the blame in this order to why the US education system really sucks. Parents, Administration, then the students, then finally the teachers. Parents do not instill in there child that people of authority get respect. When the parents do not respect the teacher the student will not respect the teacher. Administration that puts all this crap on the teachers who are not allowed to teach, but are told to teach to a standardized test. Then the students who have no ambition to learn so they do not give a crap. Then there are the teachers who have to cater to the above and please them and then if there is enough time left actually try to teach the children how to think for themselves.

42

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
this seemed like the best place for this.[/quote]

That is awesome, but here in the US the school would be sued and the parents would win lots of money for defamation of character. Something for nothing is the American way. At least for the people who are too stupid to care about their child’s education.

43

What they need to do is get rid of public schools and implement a voucher program for families that are unable to afford private schools.

Private schools cost less, and give better results.

To give you guys an idea, I went to a private school 2nd grade-4th grade and then again in 6th grade. The work i was doing in 4th grade is what the public school was teaching in 7th grade.

Now I don’t blame all public school teachers for the failures of public schools. Tho there are a few radicals in the system that need to get washed out.

The problem with performance based raises is that teachers would likely help the students cheat to get better grades so they could get bigger raises. The only way to stop that is to create a whole other bureaucracy to regulate the performance. Which means more money will be pumped into the school system which will lead to greater fraud.

44

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
If teachers want to be unionized and have all the benefits that thereby accrue to them - and by which they are protected from the “market” - they have to accept “low pay.” By the way, outside of a market what do we mean by “low” or “high” pay - low/high compared with what?

They can’t have it both ways.

Doctors and lawyers operate in a market. They are not tenured and/or pensioned on public funds.

HH is a fucking hypocrite.

[/quote]

So you don’t believe that people should be free to form unions? People shouldn’t be free to freely unite together for better pay? Even Ms. Rand believed that.

The Nazis closed down the unions. Is that what you’d like?

Tell us more, Hermann.

45

[quote]John S. wrote:
What they need to do is get rid of public schools and implement a voucher program for families that are unable to afford private schools.

Private schools cost less, and give better results.

To give you guys an idea, I went to a private school 2nd grade-4th grade and then again in 6th grade. The work i was doing in 4th grade is what the public school was teaching in 7th grade.

Now I don’t blame all public school teachers for the failures of public schools. Tho there are a few radicals in the system that need to get washed out.

The problem with performance based raises is that teachers would likely help the students cheat to get better grades so they could get bigger raises. The only way to stop that is to create a whole other bureaucracy to regulate the performance. Which means more money will be pumped into the school system which will lead to greater fraud.
[/quote]

Here in Texas any standardized test that is handed out to students to take is administered by antoher teacher and not those students teacher. I think this helps, and my mother who taught for 20 some odd years saw teachers doing what you said. They would tell the student to re-think their answers. When reported the administration did not care. That is why the system was changed here so that teachers could not cheat.

46

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

Here in Texas any standardized test that is handed out to students to take is administered by antoher teacher and not those students teacher. I think this helps, and my mother who taught for 20 some odd years saw teachers doing what you said. They would tell the student to re-think their answers. When reported the administration did not care. That is why the system was changed here so that teachers could not cheat.[/quote]

Well if the teachers are anything like the teachers up here then they tend to work together. What Texas did may work for a while but eventually they will figure it out(if there pay is based on performance).

47

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Hypotroll?[/quote]

Still mad about the Toyota thread? Especially now as more evidence comes in?

Bill, its okay to be wrong. I admit when I’m wrong. Its called ‘maturity’.

48

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

Many libs crack up when they actually try to implement their beliefs.
[/quote]

And many bullshitt filled internet trolls crumple under hypocrisy when they can’t follow theirs.

49

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

Many libs crack up when they actually try to implement their beliefs.
[/quote]

And many bullshitt filled internet trolls crumple under hypocrisy when they can’t follow theirs. [/quote]

Freedom includes the freedom to form/join unions. Or don’t you believe in freedom?

What IS your definition of ‘freedom’, Irish?

50

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

Tenure is bullshit - no one benefits from it but the shitty teacher who can’t do anything else with his or her life. Certainly the students don’t - and that’s what education is all about, right?

HH is a fucking hypocrite.

[/quote]

Wow! Such ignorance is almost staggering.

Tenure was instituted to protect teachers, mostly college profs, who were doing controversial research. It was extended to all teachers in the public venues because older teachers were being fired, to save the school districts money. Short-term gain, longterm disaster. This was ruining the profession as no one would enter the field.

Wow!!

51

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Hypotroll?[/quote]

Still mad about the Toyota thread? Especially now as more evidence comes in?

Bill, its okay to be wrong. I admit when I’m wrong. Its called ‘maturity’.
[/quote]

Never was “mad” on that thread.

It is my best personal guess, and can only be a guess, that you do not believe everything you pose as believing: an example would be a supposed belief that a vehicle can accelerate from a malfunctioning accelerator while the driver is hard on the brake, since you mention that thread.

Actually I think this is a more charitable opinion of the two that are possible.

The other would be that you actually think that.

Another would be your posting as if the issue as you understood is was whether unions could be formed or not and creating a false extreme where supposedly anyone saying as I did that the teachers’ unions should be broken means that I am advocating or others are advocating that their rights be violated.

No, the rights being violated in general with unions are the rights of employers and those who would wish to work for them to be able to do so without government interference and union thuggery.

By breaking the union, I mean saying “Screw you, union. We are not going to deal with you anymore. As for you individual teachers, any of you who wish to work here and would like to do so under the conditions we offer, and whom we wish to hire, great. The rest of you, beat it and don’t you dare interfere with our hiring people who do want to work for what we offer.”

I have no idea whether you really are in favor of school districts being hamstrung by the teachers’ unions or not. But from other posts of yours I personally don’t estimate it as unlikely that you would be posting things you don’t believe yourself.

52

What were we arguing about again?

53

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Teachers are over-glorified baby sitters, and they get paid too much as it is. On the other side, society does not care about education (or everyone would be going to private school). The latter statement goes full circle into the public teachers who do not care either, yet want a higher pay because they baby sit a bunch of brats.[/quote]

[/quote]

Well, I am not sure what that picture meant, but however I want to add to my previous statement.

The over-glorified baby sitter part, is well true. They can’t push the kids to really better themselves, they are definitely not encouraged too. However, they can’t fail a student (what?).

The wanting more money part comes from the Union situation.

Society hardly cares about education otherwise more kids would be being held back because of bad marks. At least at their current attitude. Most people just want the A’s and diploma (and degree) instead of learning something. As I once told my teacher when she threatened to fail me, “I could care less if I failed this class, I just want to learn something.”

The majority of public school teachers I have ran into do not care about the education either, they may not get more money for better scores, however they do get more money for the school (in return more money to spend and control) in grants etcetera. With the society not to interested in education, the parents seem to just send their kids off for 7 hours a day.

54

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Teachers are over-glorified baby sitters, and they get paid too much as it is. On the other side, society does not care about education (or everyone would be going to private school). The latter statement goes full circle into the public teachers who do not care either, yet want a higher pay because they baby sit a bunch of brats.[/quote]

[/quote]

Well, I am not sure what that picture meant, but however I want to add to my previous statement.

The over-glorified baby sitter part, is well true. They can’t push the kids to really better themselves, they are definitely not encouraged too. However, they can’t fail a student (what?).

The wanting more money part comes from the Union situation.

Society hardly cares about education otherwise more kids would be being held back because of bad marks. At least at their current attitude. Most people just want the A’s and diploma (and degree) instead of learning something. As I once told my teacher when she threatened to fail me, “I could care less if I failed this class, I just want to learn something.”

The majority of public school teachers I have ran into do not care about the education either, they may not get more money for better scores, however they do get more money for the school (in return more money to spend and control) in grants etcetera. With the society not to interested in education, the parents seem to just send their kids off for 7 hours a day.[/quote]

The system is very stifiling. Ambition gets you nada. Finding something that increases efficiency gets you nada (the superintendent claims credit – “Well, my team and I…”)

The only solution is to introduce competition with vouchers. Teacher pay should be adjusted, sad to say, by relative improvement in standardized test scores (I’m game for any other better measure, as the tests suck.) Now, since I helped write the current ACT math exam, I might be a little biased there. :slight_smile:

55

I never would have taken Headhunter, the avowed rugged individualist, to be a rabid Union collectivist!

These boards are an endless fountain of wonder.

56

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

Many libs crack up when they actually try to implement their beliefs.
[/quote]

And many bullshitt filled internet trolls crumple under hypocrisy when they can’t follow theirs. [/quote]

Freedom includes the freedom to form/join unions. Or don’t you believe in freedom?

What IS your definition of ‘freedom’, Irish?
[/quote]

LOL. You’re fucking amazing.

57

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I never would have taken Headhunter, the avowed rugged individualist, to be a rabid Union collectivist!

These boards are an endless fountain of wonder.[/quote]

There’s no contradiction. I believe people are free to form/join unions. What’s wrong with that? If being in a union increases your personal well-being at no one else’s expense, that’s fine.

If the union abuses its power, that’s different. But if they simply tell a politician that they’ll support him or her if that person votes their way, well, what’s illegal about that? Every group or person does that.

I think many people here have no idea what individualism is.

58

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

Many libs crack up when they actually try to implement their beliefs.
[/quote]

And many bullshitt filled internet trolls crumple under hypocrisy when they can’t follow theirs. [/quote]

Freedom includes the freedom to form/join unions. Or don’t you believe in freedom?

What IS your definition of ‘freedom’, Irish?
[/quote]

LOL. You’re fucking amazing.[/quote]

Well, thank you! Now answer the question.

(Somebody warm up the crickets.)

59

Currently the teachers have the “freedom” to place their interests above and beyond the students, and they do so on a regular basis.

60

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Teachers are over-glorified baby sitters, and they get paid too much as it is. On the other side, society does not care about education (or everyone would be going to private school). The latter statement goes full circle into the public teachers who do not care either, yet want a higher pay because they baby sit a bunch of brats.[/quote]

[/quote]

Well, I am not sure what that picture meant, but however I want to add to my previous statement.

The over-glorified baby sitter part, is well true. They can’t push the kids to really better themselves, they are definitely not encouraged too. However, they can’t fail a student (what?).

The wanting more money part comes from the Union situation.

Society hardly cares about education otherwise more kids would be being held back because of bad marks. At least at their current attitude. Most people just want the A’s and diploma (and degree) instead of learning something. As I once told my teacher when she threatened to fail me, “I could care less if I failed this class, I just want to learn something.”

The majority of public school teachers I have ran into do not care about the education either, they may not get more money for better scores, however they do get more money for the school (in return more money to spend and control) in grants etcetera. With the society not to interested in education, the parents seem to just send their kids off for 7 hours a day.[/quote]

It was a hint that you are painting with a broad brush. If teachers are over-glorified babysitters…what does it say about the parents?? Like I mentioned earlier,education starts at home. And knowing my wife’s experiences with parents…a good majority of her student’s progress is hindered by what happens away from the classroom.

And that does touch on your points about society not caring about education. My wife has dealt with plenty of parents who don’t care about their kids shortcomings,behavioral issues,etc as long as they are not failing. Then of course when they are failing…the “pendulum of fault” tends to fall on my wife(ironically from people who view her as an over-glorified babysitter) who is doing all that is within her power to help their child learn.

She stays after school…she helps out with curriculum…she’s also her grade level’s ESL teacher…she calls and talks to parents(NOT just when they are in trouble). All of this when she herself has to deal with her teacher peers who ARE the type that don’t give a shit and just “deal” with their students rather than being a pro-active educators.

Keep in mind that my wife teaches military brats…so that might add some elements different from your typical public school. Especially with the kids of upper rank that have power-tripping egos bigger than the state of TX itself