RI Superintendent to Fire All Teachers

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

My mother taught for 20 years in one Primary School. We are in the south so the Unions really do not have much sway. My mother saw teachers come from the north because there were no jobs for new teachers in the North. They would put in 5 years and then get a job back up north so they could start getting paid more money. The issue here is not the teachers, but the parents who use school as baby sitters. My mom called a parent at 10 o’clock in the morning and the lady told her that if no one was hurt to not wake her up any more.

This lady was on welfare 100% and had 4 children from 4 different fathers. The lady did not care how her child’s grades were. My mother to this day believes when parents get involved and help their children any child can succeed. This is what teachers need; manditory help from the parents. Parents no help then the child needs to be sent home. School is not a day care it is a learning institution, and if a child is disruptive the parents need to come and pick the little monster up. It is not fair to the other students who want to learn. Education is a privilege and not a right. This country can not destinguish between the two.

22

A couple years old, but relevant:

School chiefs dominate ranks of highest-paid municipal employees

…

The Journal compiled a list of 46,458 municipal employees after requesting records from the stateâ??s 39 cities and towns and 36 municipal school districts. The stateâ??s Access to Public Records Act requires public agencies to make available certain information about their employees, including names, job titles and pay.

The Journalâ??s compilation looked at the total gross pay, which is the total amount paid to employees before taxes are deducted. It includes base salary or wages, plus a number of â??extras,â?? such as overtime, stipends and severance packages.

…

â??When you take a teacherâ??s salary up to the $70,000 range, the administrators are going to have to be paid higher than that,â?? said Alfred.

…

In all, school departments claim 38 spots in the Top 100, followed by police departments, 34; fire departments, 12; and city and town administration, 10

More:

23

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Hmmmm…come out of school 50 or 100k in debt, take a job paying 35k pre-tax, teaching kids who have the manners of wild animals, and work pretty much every waking hour…

…so some governor can balance his budget on your back and scapegoat you.

Okay, that’s pretty stupid.[/quote]
Yes, how stupid of anyone to have imagined that the teachers had anything to do with the poor educational outcome, among the worst in the state, or that having done a lousy job to date they ought to put a bit more into it. Screw that!
[/quote]

Reality check: you guys get what you pay for.

Pay your doctor or lawyer 35k and see what happens.[/quote]

Reality check: you have to stretch the truth, to say the least, to make the point you want.

The teacher’s aren’t being paid just $35K even if counting only straight salary, which of course is hardly the case.

Paying the SAME CRAPPY TEACHERS more money – where they are crappy – won’t get better results.

What I see here is union mentality.

The outcome doesn’t matter – it’s not even relevant that the outcome of this teaching has been one of the worst-performing schools in the state. All that’s relevant is union demands being met.

One of the best things that could happen to America would be for the teachers’ unions to be broken.

Crappy teacher? No problem: fire him.

Pay? No problem figuring that out – the market decides.

Particularly if the government run schools are phased out and the only K-12 schools are private-run.

Where, btw, crappy teachers just aren’t so much to be found.

24

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I know my sister has a masters degree. She has been teaching for 10 years and is making 55K approx per year with a 4% increase every year. She works 180 Days per year, but she is a very good teacher. I’m not hating on her. BUT there are other teachers who I know are making 60, 70K salary who have been teaching for 40 years.

They do horrible jobs, and there is no way to get rid of them. I am ok with the people who have been working as teachers for 20 years or less. They generally have a better education and work hard. It’s the teachers who started in the 60’s teaching who are still there.

Lets be clear about one more thing. 180 days per year is a part time job. MANY teachers pick up secondary jobs, like on a golf course over the summer or doing construction etc… Seasonal jobs that they can pick up and throw another 10 or 15K into thier pocket. My brother in law teaches summer school for example. So the teachers salary average of 45 or whatever is basicaly for a part time job.

my .02

V[/quote]

If you adjust that number of 55k/180 days, that becomes 110k/year roughly. If you adjust 70k/school year, it turns into about 93k/year. When you put these work numbers on equal levels of jobs that are a full year, its not so bad. [/quote]

Of course, you have to take summer classes to keep up your certification.

I find it interesting in this thread how, if teachers have it so wonderful, that top people aren’t fighting to get into the field? If its so fabulous, why do 40% of math teachers flee, to work 60 hour weeks in private industry?

Wouldn’t a part-time job that pays $110,000 have applicants with 36 on the ACT begging for those slots?

LOL!!!

25

Teachers are over-glorified baby sitters, and they get paid too much as it is. On the other side, society does not care about education (or everyone would be going to private school). The latter statement goes full circle into the public teachers who do not care either, yet want a higher pay because they baby sit a bunch of brats.

26

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

One of the best things that could happen to America would be for the teachers’ unions to be broken.

Crappy teacher? No problem: fire him.

Pay? No problem figuring that out – the market decides.

Particularly if the government run schools are phased out and the only K-12 schools are private-run.

Where, btw, crappy teachers just aren’t so much to be found.[/quote]

We as a society don’t mind lawyers driving around in BMWs or doctors having vacation homes in the Poconos. But teachers are supposed to work extra hours and live in trailer parks.

Our country has the ‘China Syndrome’. Buy the cheapest possible shit and ignore quality. Artificially hold down teacher comp (which didn’t happen to docs and lawyers) so then you get mostly crappy teaching. Then the public complains. They fight reality, that you get what you pay for, and then bitch because they can’t get 100k worth of teaching for 35k.

Well, gaaaaaaaa-leeeeeeeeeeeee Gomer! You DO get exactly what you pay for. How shocking!

27

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

If school districts had treated their staff fairly and not simply tried to fuck them at every opportunity, unions wouldn’t have been created.
[/quote]

REALLY???

Isn’t this the argument for EVERY union that has ever been created, from the ironworkers to the UAW?

But it’s ok because you’re a teacher, huh?

Honestly HH, stick to your fuckin principles.

28

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I know my sister has a masters degree. She has been teaching for 10 years and is making 55K approx per year with a 4% increase every year. She works 180 Days per year, but she is a very good teacher. I’m not hating on her. BUT there are other teachers who I know are making 60, 70K salary who have been teaching for 40 years.

They do horrible jobs, and there is no way to get rid of them. I am ok with the people who have been working as teachers for 20 years or less. They generally have a better education and work hard. It’s the teachers who started in the 60’s teaching who are still there.

Lets be clear about one more thing. 180 days per year is a part time job. MANY teachers pick up secondary jobs, like on a golf course over the summer or doing construction etc… Seasonal jobs that they can pick up and throw another 10 or 15K into thier pocket. My brother in law teaches summer school for example. So the teachers salary average of 45 or whatever is basicaly for a part time job.

my .02

V[/quote]

If you adjust that number of 55k/180 days, that becomes 110k/year roughly. If you adjust 70k/school year, it turns into about 93k/year. When you put these work numbers on equal levels of jobs that are a full year, its not so bad. [/quote]

Of course, you have to take summer classes to keep up your certification.

I find it interesting in this thread how, if teachers have it so wonderful, that top people aren’t fighting to get into the field? If its so fabulous, why do 40% of math teachers flee, to work 60 hour weeks in private industry?

Wouldn’t a part-time job that pays $110,000 have applicants with 36 on the ACT begging for those slots?

LOL!!!
[/quote]

That figure of 110k is not a part time job, it represents a 55k/6months adjusted to equate a full 12 month work year. Most people never figure that a government job would pay so much, and originally, working for the government was not intended to make someone alot of money. In many cases, people would come out ok with a government salary, but when you add the pension and benefits, it trumps most private sector jobs.

29

AynRandLover, where ARE you??

[i]The artificially high wages forced on the economy by compulsory unionism imposed economic hardships on other groupsâ??particularly on non-union workers and on unskilled labor, which was being squeezed gradually out of the market. Todayâ??s widespread unemployment is the result of organized laborâ??s privileges and of allied measures, such as minimum wage laws.

For years, the unions supported these measures and sundry welfare legislation, apparently in the belief that the costs would be paid by taxes imposed on the rich. The growth of inflation has shown that the major victim of government spending and of taxation is the middle class. Organized labor is part of the middle classâ??and the actual value of laborâ??s forced â??social gainsâ?? is now being wiped out.[/i]

â??A Preview,â?? The Ayn Rand Letter, I, 23, 2.

30

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Teachers are over-glorified baby sitters, and they get paid too much as it is. On the other side, society does not care about education (or everyone would be going to private school). The latter statement goes full circle into the public teachers who do not care either, yet want a higher pay because they baby sit a bunch of brats.[/quote]

31

[quote]tom63 wrote:
So? Many jobs, private sector for instance don’t start at high pay ratems. And these often depend on that funny thing cdlled performance. But those jobs don’t have built kn wage increases, generous pensions, high encmddical SMS, with the bonus of you practically have to kill someone to get fired.[/quote]
I think it is pretty pathetic when people think teachers make too much money. How about I am going to have an operation, back surgery, do I want the best or the cheapest. The problem with these school boards is that they are happy hiring some numb skull with no experience because they don’t have to pay them that much. I don’t want idiots living around me …why not have masters and doctors in their fields teaching my kids. I’m just saying watch where you place the blame. You hire crappy teacher you get crappy work. I love when someone in another profession chimes in about slackers. I know a lot of slackers in a lot of businesses it’s what gives us all something to complain about. Oh well. Ask the doctor to do his job for no money, lawyer, etc…?

32

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
I don’t know much about RI schools or the teachers. I do know that on the whole, teaching sucks in this country. It’s low pay and high stress. Add to that the general public sees them as having “lesser” jobs. Most new teachers quit within 3-5 years. I know a young woman who just went to work virtually for free for one year in an inner city school. She is highly intelligent and highly motivated and wanted to donate two years of her life to helping others while she was young… I doubt she’ll last the year. She’s already cracking.

If the teachers are actually making 100K, then, yeah, F them. I think the norm is closer to HH’s 35k though.

Wasn’t that “The Wire” Season 2?[/quote]

Many libs crack up when they actually try to implement their beliefs.

33

[quote]musclegym wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
So? Many jobs, private sector for instance don’t start at high pay ratems. And these often depend on that funny thing cdlled performance. But those jobs don’t have built kn wage increases, generous pensions, high encmddical SMS, with the bonus of you practically have to kill someone to get fired.[/quote]
I think it is pretty pathetic when people think teachers make too much money. How about I am going to have an operation, back surgery, do I want the best or the cheapest. The problem with these school boards is that they are happy hiring some numb skull with no experience because they don’t have to pay them that much. I don’t want idiots living around me …why not have masters and doctors in their fields teaching my kids. I’m just saying watch where you place the blame. You hire crappy teacher you get crappy work. I love when someone in another profession chimes in about slackers. I know a lot of slackers in a lot of businesses it’s what gives us all something to complain about. Oh well. Ask the doctor to do his job for no money, lawyer, etc…?[/quote]

^^^^^…yup. Government schools held teacher pay down to save money in the short-term. This caused top notch people to avoid the profession. Now our children are innumerate and illiterate, so of course its the fault of teachers and their unions.

The public wouldn’t pay in the beginning. Now they have to pay in the end. We will be surpassed by China and then India. “But…but…our taxes were kept low and those greedy teachers are evil and…”

ROFLMAO!!

34

How about two words for you: Free market

Then only the socialists would be arguing as to whether pay was “fair” or not.

35

If teachers want to be unionized and have all the benefits that thereby accrue to them - and by which they are protected from the “market” - they have to accept “low pay.” By the way, outside of a market what do we mean by “low” or “high” pay - low/high compared with what?

They can’t have it both ways.

Doctors and lawyers operate in a market. They are not tenured and/or pensioned on public funds.

If teachers would like higher wages, then they ought to start operating in a real marketplace. The good ones who are truly benefiting their students will be in demand. Moreover, it will attract better teachers to the profession - which is a noble one, or at least it ought to be.

Tenure is bullshit - no one benefits from it but the shitty teacher who can’t do anything else with his or her life. Certainly the students don’t - and that’s what education is all about, right?

HH is a fucking hypocrite.

36

Hypotroll?

37

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Hypotroll?[/quote]

LOL. Yeah, that too.

38

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Fuck these fucking NJEA mafia motherfuckers who are bleeding my state dry and getting 4 percent raises across the board, all the while not paying a fucking DIME into their health insurance, and top out at around 100k for working 180 out 365 days of the year.

And if you want to give them less than 4 percent? “That’s unacceptable. We’re doing it for the kids!”

Fuck that and fuck them.

PS. It’s funny how HH switches sides when a topic hits too close to home. We should all be like Ayn Rand and make our own way! Oh wait, except if you support the teachers union. You ball-less hypocrite you. [/quote]

Hell has frozen over, I agree with Fighting Irish…

No offense but EVERYONE else (other then people working for govt that is) gets paid based on Preformance, why shouldnt teachers ??

39

[quote]Ratchet wrote:
No offense but EVERYONE else (other then people working for govt that is) gets paid based on Preformance, why shouldnt teachers ??[/quote]

It wouldn’t bother me…because my wife would reap the benefits of performance-based pay. She really enjoys teaching and actually puts extra hours and effort in helping her students and interacting with their parents(who tend to put too much faith and responsibility that is reserved for parents onto educators…education starts at home).

She is rewarded with being commended…and that is it.

40

this seemed like the best place for this.