Restarting HPTA after Cycle

Pharma
1

I ran a cycle of 200ml/test p from May 11 through August 30, with a tbol kickstarter. I used HCG on cycle intermittently (pretty sporadically, TBH). I was on dutasteride during cycle as well (and have been since 2012). I ran PCT during September with nolva/clomid and HCG for the first two weeks (I know that’s controversial; I got a lot of conflicting opinions about whether to do that). I stopped taking dutasteride at the same time I started PCT.

I felt awful during PCT–worst depression I’ve ever had, no energy, zero libido, terrible insomnia, etc. My energy and mood picked up around mid-October and I started feeling like myself again. The only exception is that my libido hasn’t fully recovered; I have a mediocre sex drive and boners are unreliable. I’ve been surprised by that, because I thought dropping dutasteride would help by ramping up my DHT production. (I’ve dropped dut a couple times in the past and my sex drive came roaring back–dut always took the edge of my sex drive and boners.)

Luckily, I got blood work before cycle, during cycle, during PCT, and in mid-November. I’m curious if anyone has any thoughts; my total test has recovered a lot (but not fully), but my free test % seems low. (I don’t have prior free test numbers; the blood panels that got run varied a lot from date to date.)

My PCP recommended doing round of clomid, and I’ve been doing that at 25mg/day since Jan. 10th. It looks my libido and boners, but I’m not getting the depression sides at this dose. I’m just curious if there’s anything else I should be doing to restart my HPTA. I’ve been off cycle for 4.5 months now and done with PCT for 3.5; maybe I’m just slow to restart given my age?

FYI, I’m 39 and this is my fifth cycle. I haven’t done one since 2018, though, so plenty of recovery time since the last cycle.

Before cycle, in February 2021:

  • Total test: 902
  • Estradiol: 25
  • LH: 2.8
  • TSH: 0.641

Note: Yes, the 902 number is correct, and I hadn’t been on gear since 2018.

During cycle (4 weeks in):

  • DHT: 45 (taking dutasteride)
  • Estradiol: 40
  • Total test: >1,500

During cycle: (8 weeks in):

  • Estradiol: 18
  • Total test: 1,020
  • TSH: 0.579
  • Prolactin: 7.5

During PCT (three weeks in):

  • LH: 3.9
  • FSH: 6.0
  • Total test: 419
  • Estradiol: 10

Six weeks after PCT finished:

  • Total test: 683
  • SHBG: 52.1
  • Free androgen ind: 45.5
  • Free test: 568
  • % free test: 0.9%
  • Free test (pg/mL): 51 (ref. range: 52-280)
  • DHT: 39 (no dutasteride)
  • LH: 7.9
  • Estradiol: 22
2

You don’t need Clomid. Your recovery looks similar to what you’d expect. Your SHBG is high so your free test isn’t going to be optimal, but otherwise you have perfectly normal test levels. Your LH is much higher than before you started, so your body is working overtime to produce testosterone. It’s just producing less of it than before. Welcome to anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism. Taking Clomid isn’t going to do a lot since your LH is already pretty high.

3

Yeah, my PCP had a hunch that my free test % was the reason behind the low libido, but he said clomid could help that. If clomid doesn’t help (which is fine by me, I hate taking it), is there anything to do to bring SHBG down? Is this likely to improve over time? I feel just fine at the 680 total test level, so that doesn’t bother me, but I feel like the free test % needs to be addressed for the libido issues.

4

Proviron will lower SHBG. Well I mean every steroid will, but proviron at a low dose has been shown to be non-suppressive, so you can actually use it and not cause more downstream problems.

5

Interesting–thanks for that. Would the use be indefinite, or just for a short period to drive down SHBG?

6

So, this is interesting… some blood work came in from this morning. E2 is 31, which is slightly above my normal of 31. But total test is 1,124 and SHBG is 90.7. Free androgen is 43. If clomid boosted my test to 1,124 and SHBG to 90.7, does that suggest that I probably didn’t need the clomid? I.e., that my total test before I started on clomid on 1/10 was pretty healthy?

My SHBG was already pretty high back in November (52) and free test % was low, so it seems like clomid driving up my SHBG is making the libido issue worse, not better. Time to ditch clomid?

Will get the rest of the blood work (free test, LH, FSH, DHT, etc.) soon.

7

Your post PCT numbers also suggested that you didn’t need Clomid. For the life of me I have no idea why your doctor put you on it. It’s needlessly unpleasant and it was unlikely to alleviate the issue, as you’re now seeing.

Don’t get blood work until you’ve cleared the latest round of Clomid from your system. That means five weeks after your last dose. Otherwise it’s going to tell you something that you already know, i.e. LH and FSH are normal, test is on the higher side, etc.

1 Like
8

Thanks–that’s really helpful. My LH just came back, and it’s down to 2.5 from the post-PCT 7.9. I think I read somewhere that clomid can initially lower LH in the first week before it drives it back up–could that be what’s going on here, and still worth dropping clomid given that my LH is (relatively) low? (But right at where it as pre-cycle.)

9

That right there, from all the SERM use, is likely where your problem is

10

Thanks, that makes sense. Is that likely to go down on its own over time? It seems like all the other numbers are pretty healthy.

11

Yeah, but you can speed it up with some boron

12

Perfect, thanks. It’s at least relieving to know that my issues doesn’t seem to be hypogonadism post-cycle. I’m still waiting on some testicular volume, though.

13

That actually fits with what you’d expect to see. Back at or near baseline is consistent with how these things go. I’m going to say that the Clomid is the culprit in this story. That crazy high SHBG is likely caused by it and the effects can linger for weeks after PCT, it’s not atypical. I’m betting a few weeks from now you’ll feel normal again, or at least getting on the road to it.

14

Got it, thanks. I was still at 50 SHBG and .9% free test at six weeks post-PCT, when I got my blood work done in mid-November. Assume it’s rational to expect that it would come down even more than that?