isn’t it a little tight in that closset?
I open doors for men, I have for as long as I remember. They open them for me also. Neither act is degrading. With my friends it is always a matter of who gets to the door first. I have held doors for complete strangers plenty of times, and when it’s a man they usually look a bit shocked and then say ‘thank you’ and proceed on their way. Opening doors, etc, is just a matter of courtesy and respect. Like most people, my firends are extremely important to me, and going out of my way to open a door for them is just not a big deal. JMB I think it’s fabulus that you open doors for your male friends. Sure, they may look at you weird the first time you do it, but you can bet it stands out to them…that you go out of your way to do something unexpected. Mark_la who gives a shit what ‘established behavior’ in the US is?? There have been many ‘established behaviors’ in history that were damn stupid…
I also think the comments about violence between men and women have been interesting. I was in an abusive relationship. The guy I was with used to throw things, slam doors, break stuff, and hit my dog. In the last hours of our relationship he physically prevented me from leaving his house, threw things at me and my dog; screaming at me the entire time. When I finally managed to get out, he shoved me down the stairs - while I was carrying my 50 pound pit bull (and the entire time his parents were in the next room, hearing the whole thing and doing nothing) You know why I never pressed charges? Because restraining orders are written on paper…and he was a big angry man who could have ignored the damn thing and done me serious harm. (Listen to the song ‘Earl’ by the Dixie Chicks, it’s accurate.) You wonder why women side with their abusers? Because if they don’t they know things can get much much worse…and usually it’s bad enough already. My father wanted to put Kris in the hospital - and probably would have - but I knew eventually he’d get out, and guess who he would have visited first? For the 14 months I was with him I successfully hid most of that nightmare from everyone in my family and my friends…and there is still plenty that I will never ever tell anyone.
I have told this story before, but I’ll tell it again. Last year I was working out with my (now-ex) boyfriend every day. One day I went to the gym alone, and I had a few nasty bruises on my legs from rugby. I was sitting on the bench between sets and noticed my shorts had ridden up, exposing my techi-color thighs. The huge, bald, black man who was walking by at that moment stopped and said ‘do I need to get you come help?’ I was confused and said ‘What?’ He pointedly looked at my legs and asked the same thing again. It suddenly dawned on me that he assumed I was being abused by my absent boyfriend. I assured him the marks were from rugby, and he left not looking 100% convinced. The next few times I was there with my bf this man watched us… No, I did not need help, but knowing there are people who will stop and offer help to a complete stranger like he did made a big impact on me. The next time you see a woman - or anyone - being abused by someone else, if you don’t feel comfortable stepping in, wait until it’s over and simply do what the guy in the gym did. Ask if they need help, sure, most will probably say no (even if it’s obvious that they do) but your offer will make an impact on them…and that can be just as important.
To avoid confusion, paragraphs 2 and 3 in my last post were different boyfriends, Kris was an immature asshole, and Alex was my last man, an awesome guy and the one who got me addicted to T-mag. I don’t want ANYONE to confuse Alex and Kris - they are light years apart in every way. Thanks.
Michelle, I sympathize with you. Women in abusive relationships live with those scars forever. In my previous thread, I said that until the woman says “enough’s enough” the situation doesn’t get better. You did get out of the relationship, which is commendable. I am tempted to tell you to seek solace in the fact that sooner or later this worm will get what is coming to him, but unfortunately it may never happen. You just have to let it go, and move on. But you probably already knew that. Take care.
It takes two to tango. If a women stays with an abusive man (in North America at the very least) she does so out of her own choice. People are responsible for their own actions, staying with some one who is abusive, on drugs, or just a drug dealer or general low life is just taking a risk. Risk is real and some times your number comes up. While abusive men are a particular type of problem, so are the women who stay with them. It is just stupid and abberent to get involved with someone else’s domestic shit. You don’t know the details. What about that post above where the kind stranger is concerned? What would you do if he confronted you (wrongly) about you abusing your woman? Sounds like a good opportunity for a fight that should have never happended. If there are problems, it is up to the (in most cases) woman to haul ass and get out. Women are more than capable of living their own lives.
Thanks for the insight into the woman’s perspective in a physically abusive relationship. I was the one who made the comment about intervening in a physical conflict. My instincts were that if people around intervene, and I’m not talking about beating the crap out of the abuser, but restraining him or talking him down, that could at least send the message that his behavior is not acceptable without bruising his ego to the point that he would later take it out on the woman. There were a couple of times when I could have intervened in a situation, but didn’t and later I felt ashamed that I did nothing. But your insights will certainly help me to decide what actions to take if I ever encounter such a situation again, and intervene in such a way as to not make the situation worse for the abused.
I open car doors for men first too… by that I mean that I unlock their side before the driver’s side even through there’s electric door locks… it’s a simple curtesy, nothing more… as for abusive relationships, yes the lady must find a way to leave, in many cases it’s just very hard… kids, the place is her’s and he’s just staying there… the fear of retrebution… the woman is not responsible for what happens to her, that’s bull shit! Colin.
Leaving is a big step…she maynot have family living close by… which means a shelter for her & the kids… and that is a huge step no where…she can’t live there forever… financial concerns are another huge topic…she may after all have kids to consider… it’s not always as simple as just walking out the door (yes she must find a way)…but laying blame off on her for staying till she can get out is rediculous.
Dale, I did not say that a women being abused is her own fault. I said people are RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS. Staying is her own action, the act of abuse is clearly the man’s action. The real problem is not just that there are abusive men, but that there are women who will stay with them. Also, some women actually go for that shit, they lack self respect and like the excitement. You ever dateted a stripper? Either she or her freinds will chew your ear off about how this guy did that or that guy did this, ask them why the stay, and they will give you a real hedged bullshit answer.
Gee Colin, you’re right. I should have just kicked him out, since he was living in my apartment. Of course, he had keys, and even if I had changed all the locks he knew how to break in…but that’s not important I guess. How about coming home one evening to find him in my place waiting for me? Wouldn’t that have been special? He sure wouldn’t have been there to have a friendly chat. I’m lucky, he was nothing but a bully and when I stood up to him (finally) he backed down. Many women are not that fortunate, and standing up to their abuser earns them broken bones, empty bank accounts and destroyed lives.
I did not say 'jump in the middle and punch the guy' and I did not say to confront the guy. I said wait and, just like the man in the gym (who had never spoken to me before and never did again) simply say to her 'do you need some help?' It isn't getting in the middle of someone's 'domestic shit' it's offering help to someone who could be in real danger. It send a message that there are people in the world who will help a stranger if they need to, and to someone who is abused that can be a real comfort and could be a turning point for them to get out.
Hoyk - not stepping in the middle of something is not something to be ashamed of. Violent people often carry weapons, and you could end up worse off than the person you are trying to help. Calling the cops or having management remove the man from whereever are just as effective for breaking up a bad situation.
Dale - you're correct, even when a decision is made to find a way out, it often takes time to get things together. It took me months to get out, and I was lucky that all that happened to me was a few bruises.
‘Also, some women actually go for that shit, they lack self respect and like the excitement.’ Another pearl of wisdom from Colin. You’re correct, part of my problem was low self esteem, that’s why I stayed with him after I realized what kind of person Kris was. What on earth do you think anyone would find exciting about someone smashing things in the next room? It’s terrifying. I was living with a man who scared me so bad that staying with him and hoping not to make him angry was better than kicking him out and KNOWING that he’s going to be beside himself with rage. I watched him kick my dog. I did not have a toy poodle, I had a PIT BULL. So, I’m in a house with a guy who will hurt a dog that could literally tear his hand off. If he was willing to hurt Cleo when she could retaliate, what would stop him from doing worse to me? So I stayed with him for 7 more months until I could get control enough to keep myself safe from him and his anger. I’m not sure who or what gave you these bizaare ideas, but you’re WAY off base.
Michelle, OK, you are right. Nothing that ever happens to any one has anything to do with their own actions. All women are completely perfect and never make foolish decisions. Get real. Haven’t you ever met a woman who just jumps from abusive jerk to abusive jerk? Sometimes these women won’t even give a nicer guy the time of day. And don’t personalize a very clear and general comment. I only refferenced your anecdote to imply that well meaning intentions can result in some dire consequences, I made no comment about you or anything that you have done. Also, I have made no argument supporting any kind of assault, I have just pointed out what is a very real root of the problem, women who do not take the action that they, and only they, must take to control their own lives. Once again, for the slower kids, women are not responsible for abuse that someone else inflicts upon them, but they are resposible for the bad judgement and poor decision making that keeps them there. There are too many horror stories of women who were in a really bad situation (as in children and their own lives were in real peril) and got out too late.
raises hand, calls truce ok. this is a very very personal issue for me, and any generalizations are going to continue to get my temperature up. You are correct, people are responsible for their actions, but sometimes you get trapped in a situation and sticking it out in the short term is the only way to make it in the long term. I’ve been there, I lived it, and I could do nothing about it. Unfortunately, many of us with ‘bad track records’ don’t realize that we are with yet another bad one until it is too late, and getting out takes much longer than it takes to get in.
If it applies to this, I work as a therapist at a domestic violence/sexual assault crisis shelter, and part of my job is to be a male mentor and educator to male youths about prevention of violence against women.
Colin, I gotta agree with Michelle. The Vixen was in an abusive relationship prior to me…(to the point that the guy came home drunk one night, told her he was going to cure her smart-ass mouth, put a bullet into a revolver, spun the chamber, closed it, put it up to her head and pulled the trigger…thank God on an empty chamber. When he was done with that trick, he proceded to pistol whip her into the hospital. She had had 3 restraining orders…he violated every one and put her in the hospital worse each time. The law did JACK SHIT! When I got her strong enough to leave the asshole, I ended up sleeping in front of the bedroom door every night for about a month because he tried to get in a few times. I can speak from personal experience…the law does SHIT. It ended up that he put a gun to MY head and threatened to shoot me. I really had no choices left…so I told him to pull the trigger…(sorry…no nifty martial arts moves would have saved me at that moment) Fortunatly for me…he couldn’t when it came down to it. (At least not when he was sober…if he was drunk…I probably would have been dead) anyway, after I hospitalized HIM twice, things finally settled down. Collin, look bro, I am 6’5" 245 and afraid of pretty much NO man…I can handle myself. But that being said, being stalked by this asshole 24/7 for just 2 months was driving me out of my mind…your CONSTANTLY looking around you…you NEVER relax. You NEVER know when this whack job is going to come at you…and unless you experience it…you have NO idea…and as I stated…I didnt experience it for 2 years like the Vixen did,…I experienced it for 2 months at its worst and it is something I would wish on NO ONE.
Sometimes the abuse turns the other way in this world. I have never hit a woman, ever. I have however been hit by women who know that I will not hit them. I was hit in the back of the head with a cast iron lattle, Jumped from behind while I was sleeping, attacked on a couch while I was sleeping. There are women out there who will take advantage of a nice man to the point of him wanting to be an evil man. I have been physically attacked by women on several occasions (I understand that this is the exception and not the rule). I do not retaliate as that is not my nature tward a woman anyway. I will simply walk away with my concusion/separated shoulder. What I am trying to say is that being a gentleman for me has yeilded the wrong response now I do not talk about such things and I never let a woman know I would not hit her. I let that lie in the back of her mind that I might just so I will not be attacked again. This may sound silly but I have found that nobility, chivalry, gentleman like behaviour, and kindness are not always reciprocated as such they are best kept to ones self. I understand what you are saying michelle I really liked your story thank you for sharing. There are many men that view my walking away as being a pussy. I however know; that I am comfortable in my sexuality and in who I am. I just do not wear who I am on my sleave anymore as a result of my previous experiences with women. That is also the reason for my previous post. Funny thing is there are many men now-a-days that can relate on a first hand basis to what Michelle has stated. The exception is that most men will not talk about it as it is a ridiculed state to say the least.
I talked this over with my friend last night. She brought up that many men experience the same shit from women. I certianly do not excuse violence from either side. A man I used to work with had his wife kick him in the balls so hard she ruptured one of his testicles. He was over 6 feet tall and about 200 pounds, she was about 5 feet tall and 100 pounds soaking wet…and he was justifiably scared of her…and stuck in the relationship just as many of us who are abused are stuck for some period of time. Whopper, your lady is very lucky you came along, she would probably be dead by now. Knuckledragger, your story is as bad as any I have heard from women…and unfortuantely there is little help for men in that situation. Too many abused men are too ashamed to admit the abuse is going on, just like many abused women. Your walking away proves strength, not weakness. Evidently there are many on this forum who, unfortunately, know that first hand.
Hey Whopper, you’re a true T-man if there ever was one. You really told the sucker to pull the trigger, eh? That really took some guts.
As for what Knuckledragger said, you’re right. Sometimes women go too far and think they could whack you around without you getting hurt. When it happened the past, I’ve warned the girl that if she hits me like that again, I may not be able to control my reflexes and may hit her back. Usually that makes the girl feel hurt that I would actually think about striking her, but it usually gets the message across that I’m not going to take violence from anyone. I really didn’t have actual intentions of hitting her, except maybe a slap in the butt, but it made her think though.
I never said life was fair or easy. The solution, how ever tough to take, is simple. If you are scared of your man/women, you are quite simply at a GREATER RISK if you stay with them. While it might be scary to think of what they might do or that a court order does nothing, the worst thing to do is clearly to stay. I mean life is hard and shit happens, that is why people buy guns. You can’t be a pacifist and a perpetual victim, not standing up may seem to be the easiest short term solution, but it is in fact no solution at all.
Hyock…I appreciate the kudos…but it wasn’t being a t-man…it was resignation. He snuck me on the side of my house…had the gun to the side of my head…and there was nothing I could do about it. I tried to talk to him…and he just got more fired up about how he was going to “waste my head all over the side of the house” So I just didnt know what to do anymore, so finally said…why don’t you just pull the damn trigger and finish this. Fortunatrly for me as I said, he didn’t have it in him to do it. It wasn’t bravery bro…it was that I just didn’t know what the hell to say anymore.
I tried to avoid responding but I can’t… ‘While it might be scary to think of what they might do or that a court order does nothing, the worst thing to do is clearly to stay.’ The worst thing to have happen would be to be dead. In the case of Whopper’s wife, without his help she probably would be dead. In my case, staying was less dangerous than leaving. It turns into the lseer of two evils. Colin, you’ll understand what we’re saying when you find out that someone you know is being mistreated. I hid it from my family and friends for a long long time…and when I broke down enough to tell them I received the help and support I needed to get out. I look back and think ‘I was such a fucking moron’ but I know that at the time I was only doing the best I could in a horrible situation.