Research Before Asking Questions

Off Topic
64

[quote]thighlord wrote:
jjoseph_x wrote:

I understand your point, however, if you don’t know how to search, or aren’t capable of searching for the answer, you might, instead want to post a question.

Are you implying that people are too stupid to learn how to use the search function?

And how could they be incapable of searching for the answer? Help me with that one.

As previously said, some newbies want everything handed to them. They are not prepared to search because it takes too much time.[/quote]

No I don’t think that they expect to have everything just handed to them… that would imply and active sense of entitlement. They just figure that they’d ask question… it’s like if a guy at a gym asks “Hey, you’re doing olympic lifts… are they any good?”. He could obvious had gone home and looked it up, but as long as he was there he figured that he’d ask.

As for searching… do a search on “increasing testosterone” or “creatine”… you’ll get tons of results… not necessarily the ones that are pretinent to you question.

I do miscellaneous computer stuff for a living and I’ve had to show clueless users (execs how’ve managed to run multi-million dollar companies) how to do a proper search in a search engine (exact phrase matches and word exclusions to get better results).

Just because someone might not be able to search, doesn’t mean that I presume that they are stupid or lazy. The company for which I work is in the medical field and I constant deal with doctors who can’t search for stuff or click on the “help button” in a piece of software (of course doctors tend to be pretty impatient, which might have something to do with it).

So rather than disparage, newbies, just tell them to click on the search button on T-Nation, have a look at the results and post again if they have trouble finding what they need.

A little educations goes a long way.

65

[quote]jjoseph_x wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jjoseph_x wrote:

I understand your point, however, if you don’t know how to search, or aren’t capable of searching for the answer, you might, instead want to post a question.

If you are on the internet in the year 2007 and don’t know how to search for something, you don’t deserve to ask a question.

Lots of people aren’t at all computer literate. And even among those who are they might not know how to formulate a question using the “advanced search” features of yahoo or google to help get better results.
[/quote]

If they can’t figure out how to type words into a search engine, what makes you think they can figure out the way back to the same thread to read any answers to their question?

There must be millions of lost ignoramuses roaming the internet looking for a home but finding they are unable to figure out what all of those buttons with letters actually do. Why do you want them to come here?

66

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Is it just me… Or does it seem like 90% of people who post questions to the forum don’t do even remedial research before posting?

I always research issues deeply before asking any questions. Am I just strange in this way?

Is this a generational thing? Or is it a trust thing? A respect thing?

I think it’s rude to ask questions that have been asked dozens of times before. It shows a lack of respect for the people I’m asking the question of. It’s like not paying attention in class or in a meeting, and then asking everyone to repeat what was just said.

I am not willing to trust what anonymous people on an Internet forum say unless I have some basis to trust them. If I’ve done my own research, then I can figure out if the person answering my question has a clue.

Thoughts?[/quote]

Clearly a lot of people do not get the point of your post. However, I am with you 100per cent California Law. Some of the questions people ask on this forum could easily be answered if the individual did some research. There’s 100’s of articles on T-Nation written by coaches of the highest calibar. Why anyone would ask for advice from people they do not know(and therefore do not know if they have produced incredible results) is beyond me.

People asking about exercise technique and workout programs in particular really need to kick their lazy butts into gear and read the writings of the pro’s, not rely on people on the forum. No doubt if they started reading more their results would improve.

67

[quote]Professor X wrote:
jjoseph_x wrote:
Professor X wrote:
jjoseph_x wrote:

I understand your point, however, if you don’t know how to search, or aren’t capable of searching for the answer, you might, instead want to post a question.

If you are on the internet in the year 2007 and don’t know how to search for something, you don’t deserve to ask a question.

Lots of people aren’t at all computer literate. And even among those who are they might not know how to formulate a question using the “advanced search” features of yahoo or google to help get better results.

If they can’t figure out how to type words into a search engine, what makes you think they can figure out the way back to the same thread to read any answers to their question?

There must be millions of lost ignoramuses roaming the internet looking for a home but finding they are unable to figure out what all of those buttons with letters actually do. Why do you want them to come here?[/quote]

Clearly you are a lot more cynical than me. Again: searching also implies parsing the results to find exactly what you’re looking for. If you just type “looking good nekkid” into a search engine, you will be try a link to the T-Nation site… as for the specifics on how to achive your goal, well that take a li’l more looking.

Do I want them coming here? It’s not my site, so it’s not for me to want them to come here or not. However, if someone here points them in the right direction (e.g. a friendly tip on searching the article archive) and they managed to learn a thing or two (and buy a product or two along the way), where’s the harm in that?

I do network stuff for a living, and I get what you’d call stupid questions. in some cases spectacularly stupid questions, all the time (some of them from electrical engineer and computer engineers). Not stupid people (or so their educational institutions would have us believe), but still stupid questions.

As far as asking without researching goes… when someone at work asks me a question where I KNOW that they should know better, I tell them to look it up and ask me only if they can’t find the answer (teach a dude to fish… etc, etc). However, if I know that they just plain old fashions don’t know and would never figure it out on their own(like anyone from the marketing group), I just give them the answer.

So I think that you can forgive a newbie, and simply point then in the right direction. If they still refuse to fend for themselves, just ignore 'em and they’ll go away (or someone a little less stern will answer their question).

68

joseph_x, I think you missed one of the main points of my previous post (or didn’t read the whole thread before posting, I’ll assume the former). There’s a big difference between a question like this:

“I heard protein powders will make my liver explode, burn a hole in my stomach, and make my muscles huge overnight. Is this true?”

and this:

"I’ve tried googling and whatnot for some info here but all I come up with is a bunch of gay porn and some pharmaceutical sites. Someone at my gym told me that taking a protein supplement can cause liver and stomach damage.

This seems ridiculous to me as protein is one of the most basic nutrients that we must eat to survive. The FDA defined recommended daily allowance for me is only 63g per day, which seems low. Can someone help shed some light on the subject here?"

Ok, so both posters are essentially asking the exact same question. Is it safe to take a protein supplement? Now, most people around here know that this falls under the category heading “stupid question” (despite what your teachers told you kids, there is such thing as a stupid question, and they usually get stupid answers).

Regardless of that fact, the first poster would probably get some shitty responses, some flames,a few “use the search function” responses, and maybe one or two serious responses or links to articles discussing the benefits of protein supplementation.

But overall, very few, if any, people would be inclined to put much effort into answering a question like that, when the poster obviously put forth no effort of his/her own.

The second poster would most likely get a response that answered his question quickly, provided a link to an article, or politely recommended he use the T-Nation search function. He would probably not get flamed.

Why? because he explained his situation and the problem he was having, even citing an authority on the subject (if the FDA can really be referred to as an authority on the subject). He showed that he’d done some research and was unable to find the answer to his problem.

That’s fine. You’re right, sometimes it is hard to parse through search results. My degree is in Computer Science and I work as a programmer. I understand how to phrase search queries better than most, and still occasionally have a hard time finding something other than porn (ever try to find/download the movie “XXX” with Vin Diesel?) But that doesn’t excuse people from trying.

Look at it this way. You replied to this thread with a well thought out post. I disagree with you, but you took the time and effort to clearly express your thoughts on the subject. In return, I’m writing a response addressing those views.

If you had simply quoted a post and typed “your[sic] wrong” I would have simply given up on this thread or checked it in a few days to see if anyone had said anything interesting. Same thing with asking a question. If you’re not gonna put in the effort, neither am I.

69

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
vroom wrote:
rainjack wrote:
When I was a kid, when we found wet concrete we would write our names in it.

Same difference.

Does that mean I should stop writing my name in wet concrete?

I thought that was one of life’s little mystery bonuses ripe for the taking.

I thought you wrote your name in the snow in front of your igloo.[/quote]

A real T-Man would piss his name in concrete.

70

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:

A real T-Man would piss his name in concrete.

[/quote]

…and it will be permanently etched in said concrete.

71

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
vroom wrote:
rainjack wrote:
When I was a kid, when we found wet concrete we would write our names in it.

Same difference.

Does that mean I should stop writing my name in wet concrete?

I thought that was one of life’s little mystery bonuses ripe for the taking.

I thought you wrote your name in the snow in front of your igloo.

A real T-Man would piss his name in concrete.

[/quote]

Can’t do it. It breaks up the concrete too much.

72

[quote]elliotnewman1 wrote:
Clearly a lot of people do not get the point of your post. However, I am with you 100per cent California Law. Some of the questions people ask on this forum could easily be answered if the individual did some research. There’s 100’s of articles on T-Nation written by coaches of the highest calibar. Why anyone would ask for advice from people they do not know(and therefore do not know if they have produced incredible results) is beyond me.

People asking about exercise technique and workout programs in particular really need to kick their lazy butts into gear and read the writings of the pro’s, not rely on people on the forum. No doubt if they started reading more their results would improve.
[/quote]

Clearly you and CLaw don’t understand the word research. The last time I checked, part of research was asking questions. Wouldn’t newbs coming to this site in the first place constitute research? If you don’t feel compelled to answer them, then don’t. There are plenty here who will. Just because the method of research isn’t how you prefer to research, doesn’t mean it isn’t research.

You and CLaw should just mind your own business and back click if you don’t want to "waste’ your time further.

73

[quote]m0dd3r wrote:
joseph_x, I think you missed one of the main points of my previous post (or didn’t read the whole thread before posting, I’ll assume the former). There’s a big difference between a question like this:

“I heard protein powders will make my liver explode, burn a hole in my stomach, and make my muscles huge overnight. Is this true?”

and this:

"I’ve tried googling and whatnot for some info here but all I come up with is a bunch of gay porn and some pharmaceutical sites. Someone at my gym told me that taking a protein supplement can cause liver and stomach damage.

This seems ridiculous to me as protein is one of the most basic nutrients that we must eat to survive. The FDA defined recommended daily allowance for me is only 63g per day, which seems low. Can someone help shed some light on the subject here?"

Ok, so both posters are essentially asking the exact same question. Is it safe to take a protein supplement? Now, most people around here know that this falls under the category heading “stupid question” (despite what your teachers told you kids, there is such thing as a stupid question, and they usually get stupid answers).

Regardless of that fact, the first poster would probably get some shitty responses, some flames,a few “use the search function” responses, and maybe one or two serious responses or links to articles discussing the benefits of protein supplementation.

But overall, very few, if any, people would be inclined to put much effort into answering a question like that, when the poster obviously put forth no effort of his/her own.

The second poster would most likely get a response that answered his question quickly, provided a link to an article, or politely recommended he use the T-Nation search function. He would probably not get flamed.

Why? because he explained his situation and the problem he was having, even citing an authority on the subject (if the FDA can really be referred to as an authority on the subject). He showed that he’d done some research and was unable to find the answer to his problem.

That’s fine. You’re right, sometimes it is hard to parse through search results. My degree is in Computer Science and I work as a programmer. I understand how to phrase search queries better than most, and still occasionally have a hard time finding something other than porn (ever try to find/download the movie “XXX” with Vin Diesel?) But that doesn’t excuse people from trying.

Look at it this way. You replied to this thread with a well thought out post. I disagree with you, but you took the time and effort to clearly express your thoughts on the subject. In return, I’m writing a response addressing those views.

If you had simply quoted a post and typed “your[sic] wrong” I would have simply given up on this thread or checked it in a few days to see if anyone had said anything interesting. Same thing with asking a question. If you’re not gonna put in the effort, neither am I.[/quote]

I fully understand what you are saying and I “get” the point of this thread (which is just not research before asking question… I don’t think that California Law made the distinction between really dumb and un-researched questions and fairly intelligent, yet unresearched, questions).

My point, however, is that you can still point someone in the right direction (i.e. tell them how to search for their info).

If someone is doing curls in the only squat rack at a busy gym. You can either fume because it’s squat day you don’t feel like waiting all day… or you could go over to that person and explain that there’s only one place to squat and that he/she can do curls anywhere. Maybe it won’t change anything or maybe that person will change their behaviour.

Obviously in the first example that you gave, the person was spectacularly clueless (and easily flame bait). However, what if the person instead of citing any research just said “Hi, people keep telling me that taking too much protein will cause kidney failure… is this true?” Is it deserving of a response? I think so… even if it’s just a “nope… unless you have kidney problems. Click on search and you’ll find plenty of info”.

Maya Angelou once said, “I did then what I knew. And now that I know better, I do better”. So rather than bitch about repeat questions (which doesn’t do anything to solve the problem… assuming that solving the problem is the point), just tell 'em to do some looking and maybe they’ll learn.

74

[quote]MaloVerde wrote:
elliotnewman1 wrote:
Clearly a lot of people do not get the point of your post. However, I am with you 100per cent California Law. Some of the questions people ask on this forum could easily be answered if the individual did some research. There’s 100’s of articles on T-Nation written by coaches of the highest calibar. Why anyone would ask for advice from people they do not know(and therefore do not know if they have produced incredible results) is beyond me.

People asking about exercise technique and workout programs in particular really need to kick their lazy butts into gear and read the writings of the pro’s, not rely on people on the forum. No doubt if they started reading more their results would improve.

Clearly you and CLaw don’t understand the word research. The last time I checked, part of research was asking questions. Wouldn’t newbs coming to this site in the first place constitute research? If you don’t feel compelled to answer them, then don’t. There are plenty here who will. Just because the method of research isn’t how you prefer to research, doesn’t mean it isn’t research.

You and CLaw should just mind your own business and back click if you don’t want to "waste’ your time further.

[/quote]

I think it’s rather akin to when you asked the teacher or a parent how to spell a word as a child. They always pointed to the dictionary and said “look it up.” Same thing here. Yes, research involves asking questions, but not questions that can be easily answered by looking up the answer in a reference text or website.

If you’re doing a research paper for a course in college, say chemistry, do you call or email your professor asking the atomic weight of Yttrium? No, you find a periodic table and look it up.

And yes, you’re right, we can just click back in our browser and ignore the thread without losing more than a few seconds of our time. Well, you could’ve done that with this thread if it bothered you so much.

75

I agreed with CaliforniaLaw’s original post, and was surprised to see him get flamed for it.

For me at least, it’s a matter of not looking like an idiot. That’s why I research before asking questions.

For the same reason, I proofread my posts for spelling and typos before submitting them - again, because I don’t want to look like an idiot.

I guess some people don’t mind looking like idiots.

76

[quote]m0dd3r wrote:

And yes, you’re right, we can just click back in our browser and ignore the thread without losing more than a few seconds of our time. Well, you could’ve done that with this thread if it bothered you so much.[/quote]

Let’s say a friend of yours, who knows you lift weights, asks you about your routine and some nutritional advice. Are you going to tell him to piss off and research for himself? I highly doubt it.

I take no offense nor am I bothered by this thread at all. Just conversing. That’s what forums are for.

77

[quote]AlphaDragon wrote:
vroom wrote:
rainjack wrote:
When I was a kid, when we found wet concrete we would write our names in it.

Same difference.

Does that mean I should stop writing my name in wet concrete?

I thought that was one of life’s little mystery bonuses ripe for the taking.

It is pretty cool to come back to where you wrote your name (maybe 10-20 years later) and find it’s still there, though.

[/quote]

Even more so if it was written in yellow snow.

DB

78

[quote]MaloVerde wrote:
m0dd3r wrote:

And yes, you’re right, we can just click back in our browser and ignore the thread without losing more than a few seconds of our time. Well, you could’ve done that with this thread if it bothered you so much.

Let’s say a friend of yours, who knows you lift weights, asks you about your routine and some nutritional advice. Are you going to tell him to piss off and research for himself? I highly doubt it.

I take no offense nor am I bothered by this thread at all. Just conversing. That’s what forums are for.

[/quote]

If a friend of mine asks about training and I know they aren’t really serious, they will get a rushed answer just to move to the next subject. If a friend of mine shows true interest, has already started training (without me guiding them by hand to the gym each time) and is already eating to support their goal, I will spend more time and effort making sure they are on the right track.

The difference is in the expressed interest of the individual. If you claim you would show the first friend who shows very little overall interest the same attention as the second, then you must waste tons of time in your life dealing with people who you literally have to drag around to get anything done.

79

[quote]Professor X wrote:
If a friend of mine asks about training and I know they aren’t really serious, they will get a rushed answer just to move to the next subject. [/quote]

I have no idea how many hours (if not days) I wasted given solicited advice to people. I’d get asked questions all the time. No one would do what I told them.

The way I learned to deal with it: When asked a question about getting bigger or stronger, I’d say, “I’ll make this easy on you. Here’s the only change you need to make. Keep eating and training as before, but for the next 21 days, eat one scoop of whey protein when you wake up, one when you get done lifting, and one right before bed. When you’ve done that for three weeks, we’ll talk more.”

NO ONE ever returned with follow-up questions.

I am sure they found someone else (they’re probably at this forum) to ask about whether they should never combine protein, fat, and carbs in the same meal; and whether they should use TBT or a split routine.

80

[quote]Professor X wrote:
MaloVerde wrote:
m0dd3r wrote:

And yes, you’re right, we can just click back in our browser and ignore the thread without losing more than a few seconds of our time. Well, you could’ve done that with this thread if it bothered you so much.

Let’s say a friend of yours, who knows you lift weights, asks you about your routine and some nutritional advice. Are you going to tell him to piss off and research for himself? I highly doubt it.

I take no offense nor am I bothered by this thread at all. Just conversing. That’s what forums are for.

If a friend of mine asks about training and I know they aren’t really serious, they will get a rushed answer just to move to the next subject. If a friend of mine shows true interest, has already started training (without me guiding them by hand to the gym each time) and is already eating to support their goal, I will spend more time and effort making sure they are on the right track.

The difference is in the expressed interest of the individual. If you claim you would show the first friend who shows very little overall interest the same attention as the second, then you must waste tons of time in your life dealing with people who you literally have to drag around to get anything done.[/quote]

Some good points. I just don’t see the point in telling a newb off for asking a question. I don’t look at answering questions as a waste of time. I’m already on the site with the intention of conversing with people.

I need friends more than enemies. That newb might be able to help me out someday in the off topic forums. No point in pissing in his cornflakes.

81

[quote]MaloVerde wrote:
Some good points. I just don’t see the point in telling a newb off for asking a question. I don’t look at answering questions as a waste of time. I’m already on the site with the intention of conversing with people.[/quote]

It elevates the level of discussion from “day care center creatine follies” to “intelligent debate about training”.

The reason the picture forum didn’t get overrun by skinny newbs who have never picked up a weight? They knew from previous acts that those people would get flamed to death. That is why at least MOST of the people posting now have actually made some real progress. If you claim you didn’t see that very effect then you must be blind.

We were told by many of these ‘thin as rails’ newbs that the site was changing into wannabe metrosexual central and we should just get with the times. It didn’t turn into that because we didn’t let them. TC has now redefined what the site is about…back to what it was supposed to have been about in the first place.

That is the effect of telling some ridiculous newbs who aren’t serious to go to hell. Sometimes that is needed. Holding everyone’s hand just gets your hands dirty.

Help you out? In a debate show down? Should I get my gun or my sword?

82

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Professor X wrote:
If a friend of mine asks about training and I know they aren’t really serious, they will get a rushed answer just to move to the next subject.

I have no idea how many hours (if not days) I wasted given solicited advice to people. I’d get asked questions all the time. No one would do what I told them.

The way I learned to deal with it: When asked a question about getting bigger or stronger, I’d say, “I’ll make this easy on you. Here’s the only change you need to make. Keep eating and training as before, but for the next 21 days, eat one scoop of whey protein when you wake up, one when you get done lifting, and one right before bed. When you’ve done that for three weeks, we’ll talk more.”

NO ONE ever returned with follow-up questions.

I am sure they found someone else (they’re probably at this forum) to ask about whether they should never combine protein, fat, and carbs in the same meal; and whether they should use TBT or a split routine.[/quote]

You described what led you to make a personal decision and there isn’t anything wrong with that. What I do see wrong with your attitude is the fact that now you seem upset that the rest of the world doesn’t follow your lead.

You talk about wasting time and it seems like this whole thread is a waste of time expounding on when it is or isn’t appropriate to communicate with others.

For most people it’s a much more hassle free decision, help when you want to don’t when you don’t want to. For you it seems to be causing a great deal of frustration and the best advice I can give would be to start a site where you can moderate the help given.

Take care,

D

83

[quote]Professor X wrote:
It elevates the level of discussion from “day care center creatine follies” to “intelligent debate about training”.

The reason the picture forum didn’t get overrun by skinny newbs who have never picked up a weight? They knew from previous acts that those people would get flamed to death. That is why at least MOST of the people posting now have actually made some real progress. If you claim you didn’t see that very effect then you must be blind.

We were told by many of these ‘thin as rails’ newbs that the site was changing into wannabe metrosexual central and we should just get with the times. It didn’t turn into that because we didn’t let them. TC has now redefined what the site is about…back to what it was supposed to have been about in the first place.

That is the effect of telling some ridiculous newbs who aren’t serious to go to hell. Sometimes that is needed. Holding everyone’s hand just gets your hands dirty.[/quote]

True enough. No argument there. I just think some take it to an unnecessary extreme.

[quote]
I need friends more than enemies. That newb might be able to help me out someday in the off topic forums. No point in pissing in his cornflakes.

Help you out? In a debate show down? Should I get my gun or my sword?[/quote]

LOL. That’s not what I meant, but that is funny.