There may be some interest in using Renegade techniques to recuperate from the injuries we ocassionally fall prone to.
Feel free to chime in with problem injuries or successful Renegade-style rehab tactics.
For me, right now, it’s a strained left hamstring and a strained right knee. I’ll be trying some ART therapy shortly, but have been gun-shy about training, Renegade or other. I can walk briskly for long periods of time, but I pay for sprints the next day, big time.
Like I said, chime on in.
Get the ARt done first. It should greatly reduce the symptoms you mentioned. From my experience, you need to start treatment before you worry about the intense work, such as sprints.
I’ll be happy to throw in the PT perspective in this thread. TE, how old is the injury? Any other specific symptoms other than related to running? Let me know if I can help.
Hamstring, since last October. Knee, about 6 weeks.
BTW, I don’t mean for this to be just about me. I’d like to hear about others (both problems and solutions) as well. I’m 43, and don’t have time to make all the mistakes myself - :). Right, dp?
I’ve had people with long standing injuries bounce backj with ART work. The conditons it can help go across the spectrum. Myself and my colleagues that work at the Ironman races have seen so much in the way of quick improvements in so many athletes. Get the ART done soon, stretch regularly, and follow good recovery techniques. I really don’t think your age is an issue.
From what I’ve found the more often you can do light to medium exercise and get blood in the area without straining it the quicker you’ll heal up. I’ve found morning jump rope with evening bodyweight gpp and weighted GPP (wheelbarrow walk, sled dragging etc.) to really help a lot. I had for the last year a chronic case of quadriceps tendonitis in both knees. I could not do one max effort vertical jump or normal squat without shearing pain. I tried to stay off my knees as much as possible and ice them daily but this didn’t work very well…within 2 weeks of starting the jump rope routines and GPP my knees seem to be completely free of the tendonitis. During this I was very careful not to get out of rhythm and attempt to push too hard so as not to aggravate the injury.
good topic, i have a huge problem with my shoulder from football, my shoulder feels like it is “popping out” of the socket, i will post again when i get more details (I am going to the school AT tommorow)
A great topic. Like Irondoc, I believe you need treatment and then direct your training accordingly. I think maybe the more appropriate way to look at this is the road you take after an ART specialist like Irondoc takes care of the problem. Always happy to discuss. In faith, Coach Davies
Irondoc…where are you located? Which ironman did you work? Haven’t partaken in the opportunity yet? Are you “level 3” ART? I’m in Indianapolis.
TE…I must agree with Irondoc. My outcomes with ART are rather remarkable. As far as training. “Surround the dragon”…do everything you can without aggrevating your symptoms. As Kelly recommends, the GPP is a great way to maintain (and increase) your level of conditioning and rehabilitate. knees tend to respond well to sled dragging as you can selectively overload quads, hams, etc. and still control joint angles which don’t exacerbate your symptoms.
Message understood, loud and clear. My first appointment with the ART folks is 4PM today. Bill, were you the one who steered me to them? It was someone from Indy in a different thread that came up here (Fort Wayne, IN) to see these folks that alerted me to the fact that ART was available here. It’s a husband-and-wife chiropratic operation, and from what I understand, both were/are nationally-ranked powerlifters. Anyway, I’ll discuss with them the 'when’s and 'wherefore’s of subsequent GPP et. al. I’ll keep you posted. Thanks again to all!
Yup…They are Drs. Hartle. Good folks. They can set you straight on the whole thing from ART, to rehab, to training for competition.
Coach…since this is Renegade Rehab…a thought to spur on the thread. I’m sure you’ve worked with a number of clients with knees s/p meniscus tears. With the amount of jumping, sprints, dynamic lifts, you typically prescribe to the apparently healthy athlete, how do you approach an athlete trying to get back to sport without aggrevating the knee injury. I’ve found that pre and post surgery, weighted GPP, especially sled drags, and posterior chain strengthening (avoiding painful joint angles)does wonders. I also have a progression of concentric only step-ups, concentric only jumps, concentric/eccentric step-ups, and concentric/eccentric jumps of progressing intensity that seems to be working wonders. I tend to work lateral agilities in near the end of rehab/beginning of normal training with things such as snake runs, figure 8 runs and then sharpening the curves to cuts of progressively more acute angles. The athlete find it boring at times but I think from a confidence stand point it works. I would appreciate any thoughts you may have based on your experiences. Thanks.
I’m located in Shenandoah, Pa. It’s about twenty miles south of Hazleton, or about 45 miles south of Wilkes Barre.
I’ll be at Hawaii the fouth time this year. I’ve also been at Lake Placid the last two years. You’ll learn a lot at the events. I’ve taken level three this past July at Lake Placid.
Just checkin’ in. Saw Dr. Monique yesterday for about 20-30 minutes. A lot of background work, some “does it hurt bent this way?” work (it didn’t yesterday, it does today!), had me do a couple of squats w/o weights just to see what I was doing. Took an X-ray of the pelvis (There was pain there too when the hammie was originally injured). She said yup, the hammie’s hurt, I’m too tight, the tightness is likely contributing to the knee problem, and everyone on the thread was correct - if I had started back in training, further damage could have resulted. I’ll be seeing her husband, Dr. Mike, today, and presumably stuff will flow from there. Monday is some kind of report, presumably a long-term “where do we go from here” thing. Dr. Monique was familiar with T-mag, and knew Coach Davies’ name (Don’t know if you’ve met them or not, Coach). Super-nice people. Let you know what’s what on Monday - I know dp’s especially interested (if they can help me, he’ll likely be their next customer). BTW, nice to see other aspects of rehab creeping up in the thread besides just me.
On Friday, Dr. Mike the chiro/ART guy “cracked” me (I don’t care how many explanations you get, it’s still an uneasy feeling). He also started my 1st ART session. From a layman’s perspective, Dr. Mike puts pressure on key areas moving the affected area through a range of motion several times. The whole thing went rather quickly. I must say, I wasn’t prepared to run, but I did notice a difference. Next treatment is today. Stay tuned…
What did he manipulate and why? Per my dad who was treated by both Drs. Hartle, they keep things moving quickly in their office. For him, it was get ready they come in say hi do their thing and get out. Did you get a chance to discuss rehab/training issues? If you need any further help let us know on the thread.
I’ve had two treatments this week. Yes, Bill, oftentimes they are in/out of the office quickly. One appointment lasted 20 minutes, from the time I hit the front door 'til the time I left. They do, however, seem to take the time when warranted.
Take yesterday, for example, Yesterday was “report” day. Dr. Monique sat down and explained the things she saw in the X-ray that was taken on my first visit (The great news - I’m almost 44, and have no evidence of arthritis. The not-so-great news - I’ve got a vertebrae that ‘bending’ the wrong way in two different directions). She then outlined what she the therapy objectives were (both chiropratic and ART), and what her recommendations were. Next, she reviewed the vitamins and supplements I was taking (she had asked me to bring them in). She went over each bottle, line by line. She had vit/supp recommendations, which I’m sure they sell, but she said everything I was taking was OK (she did say to take 3 of my multi-vit tabs per day, and to take 6 of my condrotin (sp?) tabs per day, which will be tapered off eventually back down to one/day). I then talked to an assistant about my rehab plan (I can’t be as aggressive as they want, as my insurance doesn’t cover any of this), but they were cool with that as long as I understood that meant rehab would take longer. The assistant informed me of a mandatory-but-free class the Drs. offered, which would A) explain the benefits of chiro more thoroughly, and B) go into things I can do to help myself stay well and therefore cut down on visits to them.
After all that, then we got to the treatment. First, they do the chiro-cracking, which takes about 5 minutes. Then comes the ART. For me, this starts with me on my right side - various pressure points are worked while I move my left leg to my chest. Next, I sit on the edge of the table, I do a seated-leg-curl motion while pressure points just above the knee are hit. Outside pressure points are hit first, then inside (Each knee is worked). Finally, while I have my left arm in a 'left turn' position, pressure is applied just above my elbow, while a flex my elbow to bring my hand to my chest.
Next, she hands me a color brochure of the stretches she wants to to perform (the first of what will be a series, eventually). We try them, she goes over the 'do’s and 'don’t’s of each stretch (“Don’t pick your head up!” was the most often-heard refrain).
Finally, she answers a series of questions (yes, I can resume my yoga; yes, I can continue brisk walking, but no running yet; yes, I can try a leg-press machine, but stop if I experience any pain).
All told, I’d say I was in there the better part of an hour.
Hope this wasn’t ‘too much information’. 'Til next time. And if anyone’s got some Renegade-style alternatives to leg-presses, lemme know - just keep in mind I’m supposed to “dip my toe” into the lake at this point, and not jump in. Thanks.
Irondoc, Do you work out of Alexandria VA by any chance?
What is level 3 ART?