[quote]PGJ wrote:
What about…that USC QB who was programmed from birth to play in the pros.[/quote]
Todd Marinovich. Apparently that guy never had McDonald’s in his life until he went off the deep end, wasn’t allowed to eat anything that wasn’t “prescribed” for him…
I’m not making a case for eating McDonald’s, but you raise a kid like that and of course it’s going to backfire.
/hijack
[quote]CC wrote:
PGJ wrote:
What about…that USC QB who was programmed from birth to play in the pros.
Todd Marinovich. Apparently that guy never had McDonald’s in his life until he went off the deep end, wasn’t allowed to eat anything that wasn’t “prescribed” for him…
I’m not making a case for eating McDonald’s, but you raise a kid like that and of course it’s going to backfire.
/hijack
Marinovich loved the Chronic too much too.
[/quote]
So far I have not seen any reason to think he is overrated. Every great athlete has a following calling him overrated. But so far it’s just words. Until I see a reason to think otherwise, I still think he is the shit. Some people make it seem the heisman trophy has doomed him to fail. He works hard, has great ability, chooses football over weed (as far as we know), and has excelled so far. I know it’s only one game, but his first game numbers were great.
Let’s watch again Sunday and see.
Bush will not be a flop, but I don’t think he will have the immediate and sustained impact of lesser heralded RB’s like Shawn Alexander, Edgerin James, Jamal Lewis, Fred Taylor, Curtis Martin, Corey Dillon, or LaDanian Tomlinson. They were all relative nobody’s in college.
[quote]Phoenix1911 wrote:
Also you bring up the conference which I agree with to an extent but has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on tranlation of talent into the NFL. If the conference played in mattered guys like chad johnson, terrell owens, steve smith, carson palmer, jerry rice, ladanian tomlinson, jason taylor etc would all suck. [/quote]
I’m not saying Bush is not talented. I don’t htink talent is measured by the conference one plays in. I was just saying that his stats are artificially high because of the PAC-10’s “no defense” policy.
Had he been in a conference that plays defense - like the SEC, Big-10, or at times the Big-12 - Bush would have been much less heralded coming out. And forget about the Heisman. Not that he doesn’t have talent. He is a pleasure to watch. I am old enough to have had the honor of seeing Gale Sayers carry the ball.
He came from the media center of the world in SoCal. USC had more media attention last year than the president. Had the same players been at Texas Tech - you guys would not even know who Matt Leinhart(sp) was.
With that said - the media gets off on building people up and then watching them free fall. I am saying that there has been so much hype about Bush - that anything short of a 1000 yard season is going to start the cat calls.
He’s barely in his 20’s and he has the weight of all that cash, all those expectations put on him by the media, and I am sure his own expectations.
I just don’t see any way for the kid to live up to what everyone expects to see out of him - especially with a team like the Saints. Bush needs to be past the line of scrimmage to do his swivel-hipped magic. IFhe has no line to allow that - he’s got a long year ahead of him.
[quote]PGJ wrote:
Djwlfpack wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Who’s the last Heisman to be worth a crap in the NFL? Probably Barry Sanders.
Carson Palmer…
Otherwise I agree that the Heisman is not that good of an indicator of future NFL success (or any other college award for that matter… remember Andy Katzenmoyer and Brian Bosworth who both won the Butkus award teice?)
What about Tony Mandarich that lineman from Michigan St. who was supposed to be the next great thing, and that USC QB who was programmed from birth to play in the pros. Lawrence Phillips, nuff said. College success means nothing.
[/quote]
Completely agree with all this, except the thing about Katzenmoyer being a bust. His career ended because of a serious neck injury suffered during his rookie camp that he never really recovered from. While this obviously makes him a disappointment, I think it should put him in a different category than Phillips, Mandarich, Dayne, etc…
By the way, does anyone remember that at the time he was drafted Mandarich was “training to fight Mike Tyson.” 
Also, does anyone remember the draft in which the Colts had the #1 AND #2 picks and ended up taking Steve Emtman first (HUGE bust) and Quentin Coryatt second (not as big a bust, but definitely didn’t live up to being a top three pick)? Worst draft ever?
[quote]WhiteCaesar wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Djwlfpack wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Who’s the last Heisman to be worth a crap in the NFL? Probably Barry Sanders.
Carson Palmer…
Otherwise I agree that the Heisman is not that good of an indicator of future NFL success (or any other college award for that matter… remember Andy Katzenmoyer and Brian Bosworth who both won the Butkus award teice?)
What about Tony Mandarich that lineman from Michigan St. who was supposed to be the next great thing, and that USC QB who was programmed from birth to play in the pros. Lawrence Phillips, nuff said. College success means nothing.
Completely agree with all this, except the thing about Katzenmoyer being a bust. His career ended because of a serious neck injury suffered during his rookie camp that he never really recovered from. While this obviously makes him a disappointment, I think it should put him in a different category than Phillips, Mandarich, Dayne, etc…
By the way, does anyone remember that at the time he was drafted Mandarich was “training to fight Mike Tyson.”
Also, does anyone remember the draft in which the Colts had the #1 AND #2 picks and ended up taking Steve Emtman first (HUGE bust) and Quentin Coryatt second (not as big a bust, but definitely didn’t live up to being a top three pick)? Worst draft ever?
[/quote]
I wonder who the Colts passed on to get those two clowns.
[quote]WhiteCaesar wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Djwlfpack wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Who’s the last Heisman to be worth a crap in the NFL? Probably Barry Sanders.
Carson Palmer…
Otherwise I agree that the Heisman is not that good of an indicator of future NFL success (or any other college award for that matter… remember Andy Katzenmoyer and Brian Bosworth who both won the Butkus award teice?)
What about Tony Mandarich that lineman from Michigan St. who was supposed to be the next great thing, and that USC QB who was programmed from birth to play in the pros. Lawrence Phillips, nuff said. College success means nothing.
Completely agree with all this, except the thing about Katzenmoyer being a bust. His career ended because of a serious neck injury suffered during his rookie camp that he never really recovered from. While this obviously makes him a disappointment, I think it should put him in a different category than Phillips, Mandarich, Dayne, etc…
By the way, does anyone remember that at the time he was drafted Mandarich was “training to fight Mike Tyson.”
Also, does anyone remember the draft in which the Colts had the #1 AND #2 picks and ended up taking Steve Emtman first (HUGE bust) and Quentin Coryatt second (not as big a bust, but definitely didn’t live up to being a top three pick)? Worst draft ever?
[/quote]
Did my own research. The Colts passed on Reggie White (6th round) and Santana Dotson (5th round).
[quote]PGJ wrote:
Bush will not be a flop, but I don’t think he will have the immediate and sustained impact of lesser heralded RB’s like Shawn Alexander, Edgerin James, Jamal Lewis, Fred Taylor, Curtis Martin, Corey Dillon, or LaDanian Tomlinson. They were all relative nobody’s in college. [/quote]
To a very casual college football fan, they might be “nobodies”, but these guys all made lots of noise in college.
Shaun Alexander - led Alabama to an SEC title in 1999
Edgerrin James - helped lead Miami out of their probation years, and nearly single-handedly beat #1 UCLA in December of 1998.
Jamal Lewis - was one of many great Tailbacks at Tennessee. Was on UT’s 1998 National Championship team (though injured for most of it).
Fred Taylor - helped Florida win four straight SEC championships and the 1996 National Championship.
LaDanian Tomlinson - holds the NCAA record for single-game rushing yards with 406 yards vs. UTEP in 2000. Played for mid-major TCU.
Curtis Martin at Pitt and Corey Dillon out of Washington played just a little before I started watching College Football, but they both did real well in the early '90’s.
Very few of these guys have to take a back seat to Reggie Bush when looking at their college careers.
[quote]Shortest Straw wrote:
ANYONE REMEMBER BARRY SANDERS? he rarely weighed 200 lbs. Ran most of his career aroudn 180, His upper body was pretty small. However he was very bottom heavy , which i do believe is better for a runner. [/quote]
Barry Sanders played at 200 in the NFL.
His upper body was not small. He was very, very muscular. His legs were HUGE. His upper body was very thick as well.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
I just don’t see any way for the kid to live up to what everyone expects to see out of him - especially with a team like the Saints. Bush needs to be past the line of scrimmage to do his swivel-hipped magic. IFhe has no line to allow that - he’s got a long year ahead of him.
[/quote]
I didnt quote it but up above you said his #'s were inflated because of the lack of talented defenses but in a respect the system he was in kept his #'s lower then they could have been. He put up extremely good #s for a split back situation. I can only guess what his numbers would have been like if he played at TT or another school in a more defensive conference. Id also assume though that he wouldnt be in the same split back situation.
I agree that the saints line sucks but (this is complete speculation on my part) im guessing with the speed of the saints receivers and the fact that Bush acts as a dual threat you wont see the box stacked against him. This will give him the split second he needs to get through the line and do whatever it is he does. I hate to bring up barry sanders because Bush is by no means of that caliber yet but his line sucked ass and he still was able to put up the yrds he did even though he had more carries for loss then anyone in the NFL.
I also agree with the media circus stuff you brought up…I think a qb like leinhart would be relatively unknown to alot of people. Im not sure about Bush though…the way he plays is real hard to ignore.
When you average a 8.7 yards per carry in college, you don’t need to get the ball a whole hell of a lot to make a difference.
Reggie’s 10 touches are as productive as most back’s 15. He had a pretty nice first game too. I’m drinkin the Kool-Aid when it comes to this guy.
[quote]OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
Shortest Straw wrote:
ANYONE REMEMBER BARRY SANDERS? he rarely weighed 200 lbs. Ran most of his career aroudn 180, His upper body was pretty small. However he was very bottom heavy , which i do believe is better for a runner.
Barry Sanders played at 200 in the NFL.
His upper body was not small. He was very, very muscular. His legs were HUGE. His upper body was very thick as well.
[/quote]
Being from Detroit Ive met Barry a few times. He weighed 210 lbs most of his pro career and his upper body was huge. He benched in the 4’s and squatted 6’s btw, and could do a 360 dunk at 5’8 1/2.
[quote]PGJ wrote:
Nicholas F wrote:
PGJ wrote:
I crap bigger than him.
He could outrun you going backwards. Hell, he would probably outlift you too.
That was a joke. Relax. You’ve never heard anyone ever say that?
[/quote]
I was joking too. About the lifting part that is…He is a little dude, I would bet his bench is in the high 300 and squat in the high 400’s, so I would be willing to bet there are quite a few people here that could outlift him.
Not that that is bad numbers, LOL.
Its the fact that he can do all that and run a 4.3
Tony Dorsett was only 205 lbs at 5’10" when he was in the NFL. Granted, players weren’t as big in the late 70’s - late 80’s, but he was a featured back at that size and played for nearly 12 years. Of course, TD wore every FB pad ever made in every game, but his elusive running style and trademark spin moves played a major role in staying healthy all those years. I think Bush’s running style and ability will help him stay relatively healthy in much the same way, despite playing behind an average OL.
[quote]Panther1015 wrote:
Tony Dorsett was only 205 lbs at 5’10" when he was in the NFL. Granted, players weren’t as big in the late 70’s - late 80’s, but he was a featured back at that size and played for nearly 12 years. Of course, TD wore every FB pad ever made in every game, but his elusive running style and trademark spin moves played a major role in staying healthy all those years. I think Bush’s running style and ability will help him stay relatively healthy in much the same way, despite playing behind an average OL.[/quote]
True, but, shit, it wouldn’t be hard for this guy to gain 15 lbs I wouldnt think, and it would be sooooo beneficial in the long run
[quote]Nicholas F wrote:
True, but, shit, it wouldn’t be hard for this guy to gain 15 lbs I wouldnt think, and it would be sooooo beneficial in the long run[/quote]
I’m not so sure it would be beneficial for Bush to gain another 15 lbs. He has a very slight frame. He will probably get a little bigger in the next year or two, but I doubt he puts on more than 10 more lbs, if that.
[quote]Panther1015 wrote:
Tony Dorsett was only 205 lbs at 5’10" when he was in the NFL. Granted, players weren’t as big in the late 70’s - late 80’s, but he was a featured back at that size and played for nearly 12 years. Of course, TD wore every FB pad ever made in every game, but his elusive running style and trademark spin moves played a major role in staying healthy all those years. I think Bush’s running style and ability will help him stay relatively healthy in much the same way, despite playing behind an average OL.[/quote]
Plus - he was a Pitt Panther. Whoopdee freakin doo.
Dorsett was great because of the Cowboy O-line. Don’t get me wrong - he was a good RB - but having blockers is what made him great.
Eric Dickerson wore WAY more pads than TD did - and world class speed to boot. Too bad he never played for a good team.
[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Bush will not be a flop, but I don’t think he will have the immediate and sustained impact of lesser heralded RB’s like Shawn Alexander, Edgerin James, Jamal Lewis, Fred Taylor, Curtis Martin, Corey Dillon, or LaDanian Tomlinson. They were all relative nobody’s in college.
To a very casual college football fan, they might be “nobodies”, but these guys all made lots of noise in college.
Shaun Alexander - led Alabama to an SEC title in 1999
Edgerrin James - helped lead Miami out of their probation years, and nearly single-handedly beat #1 UCLA in December of 1998.
Jamal Lewis - was one of many great Tailbacks at Tennessee. Was on UT’s 1998 National Championship team (though injured for most of it).
Fred Taylor - helped Florida win four straight SEC championships and the 1996 National Championship.
LaDanian Tomlinson - holds the NCAA record for single-game rushing yards with 406 yards vs. UTEP in 2000. Played for mid-major TCU.
Curtis Martin at Pitt and Corey Dillon out of Washington played just a little before I started watching College Football, but they both did real well in the early '90’s.
Very few of these guys have to take a back seat to Reggie Bush when looking at their college careers.[/quote]
Yes, all were very good but none of them received 1/4 of the hype and publicity Bush has received, and Bush didn’t even lead his own team in rushing TD’s. EVERYONE knows Bush. He’s a household name. Bush is being hyped like that first “Batman” movie. If you don’t remember, it was rediculous, it was everywhere, you couldn’t get away from it…then the movie bombed. Hollywood, baby. Don’t think Bush hasn’t benefitted from the Hollywood media.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Panther1015 wrote:
Tony Dorsett was only 205 lbs at 5’10" when he was in the NFL. Granted, players weren’t as big in the late 70’s - late 80’s, but he was a featured back at that size and played for nearly 12 years. Of course, TD wore every FB pad ever made in every game, but his elusive running style and trademark spin moves played a major role in staying healthy all those years. I think Bush’s running style and ability will help him stay relatively healthy in much the same way, despite playing behind an average OL.
Plus - he was a Pitt Panther. Whoopdee freakin doo.
Dorsett was great because of the Cowboy O-line. Don’t get me wrong - he was a good RB - but having blockers is what made him great.
Eric Dickerson wore WAY more pads than TD did - and world class speed to boot. Too bad he never played for a good team.
[/quote]
Eric was a freak of nature, no doubt. But looking at the ‘smaller’ backs and styles–noone will compare to sweetness.
The guy played on terrible teams for the majority of his career. For my money, the best most durable back to play the game. I liked Dorsett, but he played for a dynasty.