Rebuttal to Poliquin's Article on Stomach Acid

SkyNett · January 18, 2010, 7:20pm

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Do you have a course there on Nutrition Communications or is that going to be part of the coursework when you transfer? [/quote]

Nope - that’s something I’ll be taking there.

Bricknyce · January 18, 2010, 7:26pm

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Do you have a course there on Nutrition Communications or is that going to be part of the coursework when you transfer? [/quote]

Nope - that’s something I’ll be taking there. [/quote]

It’s a course that SA and some other writers on here might benefit from.

anonym · January 18, 2010, 9:41pm

Brick,

How do you find the life of an RD? I’m currently an undergrad specializing in microbiology, but can’t see myself doing that for the rest of my life. I’ve been exploring other options as of late, and it appears to be a good field for someone who has an interest in such things (which I do)… but I can’t say I know anyone who actually does that for a career.

Obviously, I’m still doing my research on it, but it never hurts to hear from someone in the trenches, ya know?

Bricknyce · January 18, 2010, 9:54pm

I suggest you research the field more in depth then. Go to the site www.eatright.org and read all about what goes into becoming an RD and what your opportunities are. I love being an RD, but can’t stand certain aspects of it and won’t return to being involved in those aspects ever again, for as long as I can help it. And I’m talking specifically about long-term care here (nursing homes). The only kind of long-term care work I’m open to now is Veterans Affairs Nursing Homes because the pay is VERY good (75 to 100% more than a regular nursing home RD paycheck).

Here’s the sort of places where RDs work - it varies quite a bit:

Food companies (eg, Hershey, Kraft, Mars, various sports nutrition companies)
Freelance or full-time science and nutrition writing (usually a magazine)
Public relations firms (healthcare or food & nutrition practice - eg, Ketchum, Kellen, Edelman)
Hospitals
Nursing homes
Foodservice management (school, nursing home, hospital, or hospitality/tourism type of thing)
Academia, research, science (requires MS or Phd)
Nutrition entrepreneurship and private practice (eg, Lonnie Lowery, Marie Spano, Cassandra Forsythe)
Non-profit/community nutrition (eg, food banks, meals-on-wheels programs, Cornell Cooperative Extension, Heart Links)
Public health (surveyor/auditor, education, WIC)
Sports nutrition (usually in private practice or for a team or organization)

Why not meet up with some RDs?

Remember, this depends on what makes you happy in life. If you want to make MILLIONS and give up the gym become an investment banker. If you want to make GOOD or “DECENT” money and really do something you like or love while having a fairly laid-back life, then maybe being an RD is for you.

rehabman28 · January 18, 2010, 10:58pm

Here’s the sort of places where RDs work - it varies quite a bit:

Food companies (eg, Hershey, Kraft, Mars,

Maybe they should hire the CCNs, like Jonny B.

Bricknyce · January 19, 2010, 12:31am

CCNs - Certified Clinical Nutritionists. What interest does a food company have in hiring them over RDs? We take the same core work as them plus MORE work in nutrition for an even an UNDERGRAD degree in nutrition. Some CCNs have an MS in nutrition, as do a significant amount of RDs. Most of the corporate and communications firms positions for nutrition professionals (which are far LESS available than traditional healthcare roles) don’t require the RD but usually prefer or demand an MS or Phd in nutrition or Masters of Public Health (MPH) or combo of BS in nutrition or public health and MBA.

Johnny Bowden - another person who criticizes RDs while clearly being ill-informed on the reality of what an RD does in a healthcare settings.

anonym · January 19, 2010, 2:19am

Very cool - thanks, Brick.

Right now I’m just brainstorming and getting some options together for my next step, so I will definitely take some time to browse that site. One thing is for sure, though: if I wanted to make millions, I definitely wouldn’t have invested as much time as I have in microbiology.

Bricknyce · January 19, 2010, 2:48am

[quote]anonym wrote:
Very cool - thanks, Brick.

Right now I’m just brainstorming and getting some options together for my next step, so I will definitely take some time to browse that site. One thing is for sure, though: if I wanted to make millions, I definitely wouldn’t have invested as much time as I have in microbiology.[/quote]

I believe savvy people can make good money in ALMOST any field. Some RDs make an ordinary salary working in a hospital while some extremely savvy nutrition entrepreneurs make big money (eg, John Berardi). I know an RD who’s the directing manager for the food and beverage practice of a major public relations firm and she does very well. We don’t know where people wind up.

Contrary to what a lot of the bullshit self-help people say, success in most fields is NOT imminent - EVEN IF you bust your ass and try hard! So connections and stepping in shit is VERY important for success in nearly all fields.

Although I don’t want to run around in circles, we also have to come back to what success means to each of us in our OWN lives. When a lot of people say shit like, “That guy did well for himself.”, in nearly every case, they are referring to monetary success. I don’t look at it like that. You define your own success.

I say that if one cares MOST about money (personal satisfaction is secondary, tertiary, quaternary, or so on), then they should pick a field in which works earn, on AVERAGE (NOT the top 5 percentile or some shit like that), twice to thrice the average American income, if not more! Or they can one day take a stab at entrepreneurship in the field they’re in (eg, nutrition in the case we speak of).

But let’s get real, the MOST money on average for workers–not hard driving entrepreneurs–is in law, medicine, finance, or some profit-generating, high-level position in sales, marketing, or advertising.

I don’t downgrade my field, and I wouldn’t downgrade microbiology. Some scientists do very well.

brentcozi · January 19, 2010, 6:46am

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]brentcozi wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Wait, what? You determined that your calf measurement tells you about your gh output???

What the hell does this mean and where did you find this information about calf measurements telling you about GH output?

What references show this to be the case?[/quote]

What i should have said is “my high calf measurement indicated bad sleeping patterns and bad sleeping patterns have a negative effect on GH production.”

“I” didnt determine anything. nor did “I” find any information about calf measurements determining GH output.

Im just telling you what my biosig practitioner told me. So i dont have any references.

my post was not meant to try to prove/disprove anything i was just informing you of my experience with biosignature

[/quote]

I understood exactly what you were saying…and it STILL makes no sense. How does your calf measurement tell you about how you sleep…and then how do you relate that directly to GH output?

I honestly don’t care if the “biosig practitioner” said that. What are his/her credentials and what is this belief based on? Is this person a doctor? They just made this statement and didn’t explain it?

Honestly, the more I hear, the more I enforce the belief that bullshit seems to the greatest export from this particular trainer.[/quote]

gee professor seems you sure like to criticize things you know absolutely nothing about.

the theory of biosignature is that where you store your bodyfat indicates hormonal imbalances that you have.

the idea is to identify these imbalances through a 12 site skin fold test and correct them through diet, training and supplementation. and by doing this it makes it much easier for your body to loose fat and gain muscle, which i experienced firsthand.

each site has a desirable range eg tricep <5mm and certain sites have desirable ratios between other sites.

each site represents different hormones or hormonal problems
tricep - testosterone level
subscapular - genetic ability to handle carbs and control insulin
pectoral - aromatization of test to estogen
suprailliac - environmental carbs (consuming more carbs than your body deals with)
subauxillary - thyroid function
knee cap - liver function (i think)
umbilical - cortisol
quad - estrogen
hammy - estrogen
cheek - food intolerance
CALF - SLEEP CYCLE AND GH

so if your tricep skinfold is over 5mm (mine was 11mm before my biosig and down to 4.5mm after) then you have a testosterone problem so you are given the appropriate protocol

if your sub-scapular measurement is high say 15mm then you cant handle carbs very well and thus have a low carb diet and possibly supps to control insulin
(Thibs has written about this before and his intolerance for carbs due to his high sub-scapular skinfold even at very low bodyfat % he has also talked about the insulin protocol he went on using poliquins supplements and biosignature in the forums on this site!)

Have a look preofessor maybe next time you will be more informed before you start telling people they are talking shit.

if your pectoral is high your converting to much test to estrogen and so may be given a natural antiaromatose supp to combat the problem

and yes your calf measurement (skinfold not calf girth) indicates how good your sleep cycle is and growth hormone.

As for my trainer his certifications are that he completed Poliquins biosignature course as well as his PICP strength coach level 1 and 2 course, which is where he learnt this information.
and since when does being a doctor relevant to being a stregth coach?

before you go asking for references and studies there are none that i am aware of.

but seriously prof X in health and fitness pretty much everything that is state of the art comes from anecdotal evidence then medicine catches up years later. you know this as well as i do.

this method was developed over the last 25 years by poliquin through the correlations he discovered when taking skinfold measurements of his athletes and then comparing the skinfolds to their hormonal panels. and over the years he has discovered herbal supplements to help correct these hormonal problems.

I only know the basics but i will have done the course come Feb 17 and will be able to explain it to you properly then.

But seriously if its good enough for Thibs then it can’t be too bad

Professor_X · January 19, 2010, 7:06am

[quote]brentcozi wrote:

gee professor seems you sure like to criticize things you know absolutely nothing about.[/quote]

That isn’t true. I have two degrees that show I know a tad about biology, biochemistry and genetics.

[quote]

the theory of biosignature is that where you store your bodyfat indicates hormonal imbalances that you have.[/quote]

Great theory. It is also largely overly simplistic as there is much more involved with where you store fat than a hormone imbalance. Remember the word “genetics” from the previous reply? There may actually be some sort of correlation, but to make DIRECT references from one to the other without ever proving where the science is that backs that up is not good science.

[quote]

the idea is to identify these imbalances through a 12 site skin fold test and correct them through diet, training and supplementation. and by doing this it makes it much easier for your body to loose fat and gain muscle, which i experienced firsthand. [/quote]

But if the basic premise is faulty, how can you build a whole mini-mall on a sand foundation?

[quote]
each site has a desirable range eg tricep <5mm and certain sites have desirable ratios between other sites.

each site represents different hormones or hormonal problems
tricep - testosterone level
subscapular - genetic ability to handle carbs and control insulin
pectoral - aromatization of test to estogen
suprailliac - environmental carbs (consuming more carbs than your body deals with)
subauxillary - thyroid function
knee cap - liver function (i think)
umbilical - cortisol
quad - estrogen
hammy - estrogen
cheek - food intolerance
CALF - SLEEP CYCLE AND GH

so if your tricep skinfold is over 5mm (mine was 11mm before my biosig and down to 4.5mm after) then you have a testosterone problem so you are given the appropriate protocol

if your sub-scapular measurement is high say 15mm then you cant handle carbs very well and thus have a low carb diet and possibly supps to control insulin
(Thibs has written about this before and his intolerance for carbs due to his high sub-scapular skinfold even at very low bodyfat % he has also talked about the insulin protocol he went on using poliquins supplements and biosignature in the forums on this site!)

http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_thibaudeau/thib_results_poliquins_insulin_protocol?id=2092666&pageNo=0

Have a look preofessor maybe next time you will be more informed before you start telling people they are talking shit.[/quote]

Doubtful.

[quote]
if your pectoral is high your converting to much test to estrogen and so may be given a natural antiaromatose supp to combat the problem

and yes your calf measurement (skinfold not calf girth) indicates how good your sleep cycle is and growth hormone.

As for my trainer his certifications are that he completed Poliquins biosignature course as well as his PICP strength coach level 1 and 2 course, which is where he learnt this information.
and since when does being a doctor relevant to being a stregth coach?

before you go asking for references and studies there are none that i am aware of.

but seriously prof X in health and fitness pretty much everything that is state of the art comes from anecdotal evidence then medicine catches up years later. you know this as well as i do.[/quote]

Oh, that last sentence is very true…and the flipside is that the gap in experienced knowledge allows quite a few charlatans to make a quick buck on “evidence” based on a faulty initial premise.

Is this the same guy who tried to act as if he had the knowledge of a medical specialist when he doesn’t have the credentials?

Name dropping is fun, huh?

WestCoast7 · January 19, 2010, 7:41am

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Just an anecdotal story here. As my calories and protein went up the past couple years, so did my gassiness and general discomfort after eating. I started taking digestive enzymes with meals and almost instantly started to feel better. The mixture is protease, lipase, amylase, bromelian and some other stuff. One of the brands had pepsin and Betaine HCL as well.

I appreciate that the GI doc has systematically addressed each of Poliquins claims with respect to HCL, but what about general digestive enzyme supplements? I thought they were pretty well established, like lactase supplements for lactose intolerant folks.

I’ll be rethinking the brand(s) with betaine hcl until further clarification.[/quote]

Can someone address this? I to use a digestive aid (a complete enzyme supplement) that contains HCL, but not a huge amount. It has helped tremendously with gas/bloat/overall digestion, but is it healthy, should it be continued?[/quote]

Aside from things like lactase enzymes and acidophilus cultures I never put much stock into them. There are foods your body works well with and some it doesn’t. I consider it largely individual. I also know my body has adapted over time to my eating habits and volume of food intake to the point that I don’t get many of the discomfort issues I had years back. Moderate to low carb equals less discomfort for me. Bulking up or simply gaining is a different story.

I am also willing to bet that placebo effects are likely why SO MANY people act like they see such a benefit with all of this stuff across the board.

In other words, it may help a little but not more than understanding your own food choices does.

I can’t drink protein shakes from certain manufacturers unless I want to clear out whatever floor I am working on and set off the smoke detectors. I am lactose intolerant. Lactase helps with this. That is pretty straightforward. That is not quite the same as taking one single “cure all” enzyme and thinking it is needed across the board.[/quote]

I conducted my own experiment, as I recently ran out of the digestive enzyme compelx that I usually utilize. I did not take it for 4 full days, and during that time, bloat/gas/indigestion were all at elevated levels. Just like you, I had terrible gas, and felt uncomfortable after most big meals.

Now fast forward 4 days to when I started taking the digestive enzyme complex again, with lunch and dinner, and all of those problems have since disappeared again. Nothing was changed in my diet, except for the supplement.

Maybe it is just my body, but the digestive enzyme aid has provided tremendous benefit, that is very apparent after 4 days off of it. The best way to find out if it, or anything for that matter, works? try it out for yourself.

Professor_X · January 19, 2010, 7:55am