[quote]testup wrote:
Here, I will conform to the seemingly implied standards of this forum and present what I want to say in a more acceptable way:[/quote]
Right.[quote]
Muscle fiber is conposed of slow twitch, intermediate twitch, and fast twitch fiber. The way to achieve maximum muscular growth is to stimulate all three muscle fibers maximally.[/quote]
I guess, yeah.[quote]
The problem with most straight volume work is that it is essentially “too slow”. The lighter weight generally associated with high volume training doesn’t cause the whole muscle to reach fatigue fast enough to work all three muscle fiber groups.[/quote]
I don’t think this true at all… if you use a regular BB load - 6-12RM load and explode up on the concentric you will recruit more IIb fibres. I like to do different cadences within the same session personally… and different ranges of repetition too.
Also - why does high volume mean light weight? By volume do you specifically mean high repetition? If so the whole post is redundant.
If not, then just increase the sets while keeping the reps lower and BANG! You have volume and maximal recruitment due to load.
Or of course you could just do as i first suggested and explode on the concentric…[quote]
Instead, in most high volume training, the slow twitch fibers will exhaust themselves, then the intermediate, and then perhaps a few fast twitch, but by this time the slow twitch will have rested enough to begin to take over some of the work load again. This results in very poor in roads toward fatiguing and maximally stimulating the entire muscle.[/quote]
NO… not in high volume per se. You are essentially talking about the size principle of course, but this is again rectified by using a heavier load, maximal power OR (preferably IMO) both.[quote]
On the other hand, too much of a load will cause all three types of muscle fiber to work together to deal with the excessive load and then fatigue and even failure is reached so soon that there is an insufficient amount of volume reached to encourage hypertrophy.[/quote]
Woa! What is wrong with fatiguing the muscle with less volume? The body dfoesnt respond by growing to volume but to the damage done to the muscle from the stress it endured… this isnt a matter of volume - while volume is a factor that can be manipulated, it isnt the one primary factor of fitness progression![quote]
This naturally leads us to assume that the best workout for growth would be one that utilizes a moderately heavy weight with a good amount of volume.[/quote]
While your theory sucks and shows you dont have a background in physiology, i would generally agree with this. Of course saying that it is THE BEST isn’t strictly true… but it certainly is an effective way to stimulate maximum growth in a muscle.[quote]
So, given all that information, it seems like the problem should be settled. Ultrahigh volume work really would seem ridiculous.[/quote]
What>? What happened to moderate/heavy weight and decent volume? That works - we know as WE DO THIS ALREADY![quote]
And yet, from my years in the military, I’ve found that a surprising number of individuals respond to a volume of work much higher than would make sense given this information.[/quote]
Overload works… you are obsessing on volume. This is but ONE factor of progression… load, volume, intensity, rest… etc.[quote]
And indeed, some individuals who work hard labor jobs that require constant repetition of muscularly exhausting movements seem to defy the common sense idea that ultravolume will always result in some kind of broken, wasted body.[/quote]
You seem to be going around in circles and i regret posting a reply. i think i may stop if this doesn’t change…[quote]
In addition, rest periods of weeks without working a muscle also seems ridiculous, but I have seen that work as well. I’ve witnessed individuals in the army subjected to unheard of volumes of bodyweight exercises worn down to nothing, then given a number of weeks without any workouts at all, and the result is a stronger, more rugged indivual when tested after the rest period. [quote]
It is called over training - and supercompensation.
Your problem is you have witnessed some phenomena of fitness progression and you don’t have the knowledge to comprehend it - you are not really hitting on anything most here don’t know already i’m afraid mate… all pretty basic stuff actually.[quote]
I am not speaking hypothetically here. These are real responses to high volume that I have witnessed. Now, I am asking…WHY?[/quote]
No, you are speaking… well - kinda without knowledge.
Yes volume works, but it is not fundamental to training.
The fact is, for maximal growth you need to stimulate the muscle. To do this you need to put it through a period that it has never encountered before - this is called overload.
This can be a higher load, more reps, a HIGHER VOLUME.
Then you have super-compensation, which is what we rest for and why ‘they’ say we grow when we rest… tis’ true.
We train (in whatever fashion suitable for the goal and person) and then we need to rest that muscle in order to let it adapt. IF for example (going back to the weeks of rest and coming back stronger) one over-trains… say with a volume that is too high/an insufficient diet/poor lifestyle to allow sufficient R&R (like what i did there?) to allow the muscle to adapt over that period of time, then a break of a week - or even a few eeeks if the overload was sufficiently challenging, a break of that length will be the time the body needs to recuperate and grow that muscle and adapt the CNS to that workload and the athlete (or private) will come back refreshed, ready to work harder than ever and stronger.
People employ this method all the time.
As for maximal fibre stimulation… well, fast reps do mean you employ the fast twitch fibres more as the speed increases the load lifted significantly, and the slowing of that repetition can often be attributed to the fatigue of those fibres and thus less fibres being available to do the work necessary.
Of course due to the ‘size principle’ it is also true that if you take a moderate load and rep out… you will go through all the fibres available as you fatigue - and is the EXACT reason one trains to failure (or damn near) when training for muscle growth.
There is a hell of a lot more but that covers the basics you mentioned.
It is a fascinating subject and one (if interested) which will allow you many MANY hours of study (trust me, i know) but you are attempting to re-invent the wheel there bud, and it just doesn’t need it at that level.
JJ
