I’m gearing up to run a new cycle - which would be my 4th. Previously I ran:
Test at 500mg/wk for 15 weeks, Tbol last 4 weeks. The Tbol didn’t agree with my blood pressure. The test did what it’s supposed to do.
Test at 600mg/wk for 12 weeks, DBOL at 30mg week 1-4, anavar week 9-12. Good cycle. Blood pressure 115/75
Test at 120mg/wk, Trestolone at 35mg/WK all the way up to 140mg/wk for about 8 weeks. The trest made me feel 18 again, full of life, vigor and stamina. Overall a great feeling cycle. Lost fat, gained muscle, no e2 issues. Blood pressure ~115/80
For the past couple of months I’ve been dieting down to an unreachable 195lbs. Managed to get to 197lbs when I said “fuck this dieting bullshit, I’m hungry and ready to eat!!”
Coincidentally, ever since dieting I’ve been having some libido trouble. I threw in some masteron at 100mg/wk into the equation and bam, all is fine and dandy once again in the bedroom.
Stats:
Male, 38 years old
6’2’’
202lbs
Body fat % - I’ll let you guys be the judge of that as I’m too subjective. Pics below.
Lifts:
Deadlift 465lb for 5 reps
Bench 310lb for 5 reps
Military press 180lb for 5 reps
Been lifting the better part of my life.
On TRT at 140mg/wk a few years now.
Proposed cycle should be a lean bulk hopefully getting me to a good looking 225lb - 230lb:
Test C 200mg/wk for 16 weeks
Deca 500mg/wk for 16 weeks
Masteron 100mg/wk continuously
Dbol 37.5mg/ed week 1-4
Caber 0.25mg 2x/wk for 20 weeks - purely for nootropic and libido effects and lowering prolactin levels which were high in my latest bloodwork.
Any and all advice, warnings, critiques and general discussion welcome.
I’m particularly interested in the dosage of test (if it’s high enough) and deca (if it’s too high). I chose deca because it’s presumed relatively mild compared to other steroids but still capable of packing on some decent muscle.
Below you’ll find two pics Both were taken after large meals, if that means anything. One before my cut, the other after my cut (in which in my opinion I look worse - emaciated as per my wife’s words). I’m ready to gain size and strength.
Too low. I wouldnt bother below 500, but nowdays i am not even a fan of that.
Is an ok dosage, IF you test is the same or higher. Not a fan of 19nors being higher than test.
Waste, pointless, does nothing. Unless you are one of those who gets some libido off it, it doesnt do shit, and if you DO get the libido thing then you still dont even count this as an AAS, as it doesnt do anything towards your goals.
Mast dosages for contest shape are closer to 600-800mgs also.
Never understood why people start or end it with orals. They are the same drugs which work the same way, so being on dbol for 4 weeks is the same as being on test for 4 weeks. The only reason people do this is because dbol bloats them up, and they think they are gaining something faster. But its only water. You can aswell just eat tons of salt and bloat up the same way.
No steroid can do anything for you in 4 weeks, and dbol is no different. I would say - either you run it or dont. You can just do 30mgs a day for the whole 16 weeks.
You can also go even milder. EQ. Also Deca will bloat you the fuck up. Along with dbol. If you want a leaner-look, you can do Test-EQ, and maybe skip the mast and dbol and just do more of each.
You have enough muscle and experience to do like 1g of test and 750mgs of EQ. These dosages are only “scary” because you would use more of the same steroid, instead of micro dosing lots of others.
If you dont like the dosages, you could start 500test, 500EQ, and up the dosages like every 3-4 weeks. If you do deca, i definetly wouldnt do less test than 19nor, but i also dont think you would benefit from less deca, so 750test, 500deca is a minimum.
I may take your advice and up the test. Maybe not 500 but 300.
I read this in other posts as well, however I found no plausible correlation of low test - high deca causing anymore problems than the other way around. If necessary I’ll adjust.
Test C and especially deca take longer to fully kick in so I wanted to bridge that with a fast acting oral. Previously I had a good time with dbol. I gained some mass without any bloat when diet was clean and sodium intake in check. Also, I like to think that it’ll add to the nutritient partitioning aspect which will allow me to eat a slight surplus right off the bat.
I am one of those that takes it for the libido and mood enhancing effects and it’s working in that regard. I’m not counting on it adding any significant muscle to my frame.
I may give this a go in the future.
I will admit that those dosages do sound a bit high or “scary”. I just don’t have the balls to go that high right now although if I calculate my total weekly dosage it comes to a total of 1062 grams per week (200 test, 500 deca, 100 mast, 262.5 dbol)!
This is either grossly incorrect or Dianabol is the greatest placebo known to man.
Example 1. I started with 30 day 10mg/day Dianabol cycles and began significantly feeling stronger around day 10. Was all strength attributed to water weight?
Example 2. When starting a contest cycle, I was a fairly lean 240+lbs. Within two weeks my muscles began to swell and body fat began to melt away, while I got stronger.
We have been through this. I really cant comment on your experience and or dosages, but you show me one person who can make a noticable transformation, that will not get pissed out straight after he stops dbol, in 30 days, nowdays.
Idk if its the drug quality or just the way they manufacture stuff, but there is a reason why people nowdays take stuff in grams, to be at all competitive.
Whatever dosages you did, wouldnt even bloat most people nowdays. Just look in other forums on how much people are taking and what they look like. The only ones who look like they take anything at all start from 1,5 grams a week. By your standards, that is like twice as much as you would recommend.
So as we have talked before about this, i believe you mentioning any actual dosages, is just super irrelevant.
I wouldnt take a cycle in dosages you recomend when i started out as a 17yr old natty of 200lbs. Nor should anyone else, who wants to gain something.
I could pop 10x10mgs of dbol a day, just to make an experiment, and make progress pics so you see how it would do absolutelly nothing.
I would really like to see you coach anyone nowdays on dosages you recomend and see him break at least 220lbs lean. I am willing to bet that unless this person is already 220lbs, its not doable on 500-600mgs total of anything.
Meet Dorian. Dorian is on TRT. Dorian takes 200mgs a week. Dorian is a 6 times Mr.O winner. If anyone has good genetics for size and mass, its Dorian. There probably are not much better genetics than Dorians for building size.
Now how the fuck would anyone believe, that you could just double that dose, and look like you even lift? If Dorian on TRT doesnt look like he has ever done anything more than pushups, then any other man needs 10 times that.
Thinking that you can take Dorians TRT, add 300mgs of Deca, and build ANYTHING noticable and worth doing, is just insane.
Nowadays Dorian is on a steady diet of cannabis and yoga if I have listened carefully. I don’t think he really does intense hypertrophy training IIRC nor does he eat much.
From my previous examples:
You really gotta mention height in the overall picture as well when you throw out body masses. I think I reached max about 245-248 lb with visible ab veins (100 mg test cyp/week + 100 mg ND/week). Granted an outlier since height is 195.6 cm. That was before I started 325 mg/week of test cypionate (AFIB after 2 weeks). Good thing in retrospect otherwise I’d be 280 lb at 8% BF right now .
Strange on the testosterone dose response as I also did 100 mg/week testosterone cypionate (base) along with 50 mg/day of oxandrolone for 4 weeks. Interesting the 325 mg/week did me in but the 450 mg/week of total AAS run prior I had no problems. Full disclosure I have no explanation so must be COVID haha.
Weight without height can be very misleading. Through my years of competing I grew to notice that at roughly 6’ tall and competitive conditioning, that there was about a 10lb per inch difference for competitors to appear equal thickness. I have since seen somewhere stated that it is 8lbs per inch height.
That is, if I weighed 215lbs at 6’ tall, that a 5’10” competitor would look about the same thickness as me if he weighed 185lbs. And that a 6’2” competitor would look about the same thickness as me if he weighed 235lbs. My rule of thumb seemed to fail the further I got from my height. But it was constructive because I was competing against those over 198.5lbs (90kg)
The 1979 Jr Mr USA was done by height classes. Greater than 5’10” was the tall class. That day I measured 5’11 1/2”
That seems about right for people within a few inches of your height. Maybe a little less but for the intent I think it makes sense. When you start speaking of super short people like yours truly that would probably need to be adjusted though. Same for super tall.
A real challenge. Adding 5lbs of muscle on each thigh on a person 6’4” would look like almost nothing, but on a person 5’6” it would appear a massive gain. Volume is a cubic function relative to thigh visual width.
You are not super short. I have a buddy that is 5’2", and he looks yolked when about 160. I’d have to be the same leanness and 230 I think to match proportions at 5’10". Although, I’d look worse haha, as he is very wide for his height, and has like 16" arms at 5’2".
Not a lot to say that hasn’t already been said except:
I have no problem running 19-Nors at double my test dose, though I could certainly be the outlier.
My last 2 cycles were 350/600 testc/NPP and 400/800 testc/deca. No issues with either personally. I’ve also run it at 1:1 and 2:1 test/nand. I don’t have any issues with any of them.
Interesting thread on its own. I think you are going to need some serious nonlinear correction in addition to the typically mentioned FFMI(adj) which is height adjusted. Bodybuilders over 6’2":
If height <= 6’2" Then
_____MsgBox “Proceed”
Else
_____MsgBox “Find another hobby”
End If
“Similarly, a sample of 20 Mr. America winners from the presteroid era (1939-1959)”
IMO, since CIBA developed Dianabol in 1955, especially for the years 1958 and 1959, I’d feel more confident that those years be dropped from the calculations.
.