Got this program, from one of the old guys at the powerlifting club, that i go too.
Mostly want opinions, critique what you think of it and such, doesn’t seem very “powerlifting”'ish, to me, but if it will give optimal results, who am i to judge then.
Thanks. (sorry about my shitty english.)
Im not going to say its not a good program but, “optimal” I sure wouldnt say that.
[quote]Reed wrote:
Im not going to say its not a good program but, “optimal” I sure wouldnt say that.[/quote]
Hmm okay, have 3-4 days of a deload left, would be nice to get a new program just to try some other things, if you got any advice.
Thanks man.
So you admit in the first post that it doesn’t look very powerlifting ish to you. BTW, that is the most generic 1960’s weightlifting routine I’ve ever seen. That’s the kind of shit you give to total noobs to get them started in the game. Maybe that’s you? Anyways, you then give Mr. Reed some shit when he says that it’s likely not “optimal”. I also agree. with that statement. Maybe something got lost in your shitty English lol. ← That’s smartassery in case you can’t tell 
Look, give 5-3-1 a run. Run it for 1 year then see where you want to go from there. 5/3/1 has enough variations to give anyone a hyooge training boner. Find the one that you find most interesting and go with it. I’d say that you would benefit from any program so long as you were con sistent and do it with enthusiasm.
I concur with StrengthDawg. Sure doing the above program is better than doing nothing, but it isn’t optimal. Also, same with 5/3/1 in that I mix up my assistance work every cycle and it keeps it feeling fresh and new while sticking to the basics on the main lifts.
I think there’s too much bodybuilding work and not enough powerlifting work. I could e-mail you a program given to me by my “coach” if you want. Skrev det på engelsk pga. mods.
Personally I wouldn’t deadlift 2 days after squatting. I would switch it around so Monday is squat day, Wednesday bench and Friday deadlift. And no need for 2 5x5 bench days in the same week. One will suffice, and for me at least, 2 would stall recovery and progress. I mean, do you plan on moving up by at least 5 lbs. from one 5 x 5 bench workout to the next? If not then it’s pointless. Also, 5x5 week after week you’ll hit a plateau eventually. I vary my rep ranges, in a 4 week cycle, going 5x8, 5x5, 5x3 and a one rep max day. That way I still move up but for example each 5x5 week is 4 weeks apart, so there’s almost always at least a 5 lb. increase.
The overhead press right after benching, I wouldn’t do. I actually have a 4th training day starting with overhead press (spaced out from bench by 3 days) but that’s just me. I like having a big overhead press. I don’t care if it’s not part of powerlifting meets. Plus, I can out-bench all the people who once told me a big overhead press would HURT my benching.
Also, other than lunges I don’t see any isolated leg work. Glute ham raises, reverse hypers, leg curls, and hell, even the strongest powerlifters I know still hit the calf machine. You’re only as strong as your weakest link.
[quote]Vortura wrote:
The overhead press right after benching, I wouldn’t do. I actually have a 4th training day starting with overhead press (spaced out from bench by 3 days) but that’s just me. I like having a big overhead press. I don’t care if it’s not part of powerlifting meets. Plus, I can out-bench all the people who once told me a big overhead press would HURT my benching.
[/quote]
Kind of off topic, but i always found this interesting. How does your bench and overhead compare to each other? Some people swear by overhead directly improving bench numbers. Personally I find almost the opposite. Wonder why that is.
[quote]clutz15 wrote:
[quote]Vortura wrote:
The overhead press right after benching, I wouldn’t do. I actually have a 4th training day starting with overhead press (spaced out from bench by 3 days) but that’s just me. I like having a big overhead press. I don’t care if it’s not part of powerlifting meets. Plus, I can out-bench all the people who once told me a big overhead press would HURT my benching.
[/quote]
Kind of off topic, but i always found this interesting. How does your bench and overhead compare to each other? Some people swear by overhead directly improving bench numbers. Personally I find almost the opposite. Wonder why that is.
[/quote]
Haha oh man OHP… I don’t think I can OHP 175 and as you know I bench over 500 single ply… How far off is yours?
[quote]arramzy wrote:
[quote]clutz15 wrote:
[quote]Vortura wrote:
The overhead press right after benching, I wouldn’t do. I actually have a 4th training day starting with overhead press (spaced out from bench by 3 days) but that’s just me. I like having a big overhead press. I don’t care if it’s not part of powerlifting meets. Plus, I can out-bench all the people who once told me a big overhead press would HURT my benching.
[/quote]
Kind of off topic, but i always found this interesting. How does your bench and overhead compare to each other? Some people swear by overhead directly improving bench numbers. Personally I find almost the opposite. Wonder why that is.
[/quote]
Haha oh man OHP… I don’t think I can OHP 175 and as you know I bench over 500 single ply… How far off is yours?[/quote]
And what is your OHP compared to your raw bench? That is an easier comparison.
FWI, my OHP is weak compared to my bench, but I am trying to work on it. Didn’t really do any OHP work until after I had benched 315. Now my TnG max on bench is about 340-345, but my OHP is still only about 170-175.
[quote]arramzy wrote:
[quote]clutz15 wrote:
[quote]Vortura wrote:
The overhead press right after benching, I wouldn’t do. I actually have a 4th training day starting with overhead press (spaced out from bench by 3 days) but that’s just me. I like having a big overhead press. I don’t care if it’s not part of powerlifting meets. Plus, I can out-bench all the people who once told me a big overhead press would HURT my benching.
[/quote]
Kind of off topic, but i always found this interesting. How does your bench and overhead compare to each other? Some people swear by overhead directly improving bench numbers. Personally I find almost the opposite. Wonder why that is.
[/quote]
Haha oh man OHP… I don’t think I can OHP 175 and as you know I bench over 500 single ply… How far off is yours?[/quote]
I can’t say I have OHP’d in a long time and my bench continues to make as much progress as I can expect at this point, so the OHP number is a complete and utter guess; but I would say 200 strict overhead maybe, and I’ve done 435 touch and go and 420 paused.
I’m pretty confident I could walk into the gym on almost any given day and put up 400 in the bench, so i would definately say its atleast double my overhead.
I know alot are huge advocates of overhead pressing to build the bench, but anyone I have worked with has seen huge increases in their bench numbers by improving technique and increasing bench volume and frequency, pretty much in that order. But I know our training philosophies are pretty much identical so I imagine there isn’t much argument there.
My bench is at 380 and OH at 230 (both lifts with nothing more than wrist wraps and a belt) but most importantly, both are still moving up and I haven’t missed a rep in weeks. I have a 5-3-1 type thing going for both lifts, but staggered so that my bench 1-rep max day is roughly 2 weeks apart from the overhead press. I say roughly 2 weeks because the 2 lifts are 3.5 days apart from each other so they can never be exactly 2 weeks apart.
As far as what it helps with bench, this may sound weird, but for me I’ve noticed that right after the bench liftoff, that feeling of “oh shit this is heavy” keeps gradually going away, even at close-to-max bench efforts. Like maybe from doing heavy overheads, now when I’m holding an even heavier bar, but while lying on a bench, it doesn’t seem to be such a big deal. So perhaps it helps with stability, lockouts. I just try to be careful and not get ahead of myself because one careless move and then I’ll be facing setbacks with both lifts.
As far as doing OH press right after bench like the routine that started this post, to me that would be like deadlifting right after squatting and then trying to get an accurate measurement of where your deadlift is at. But maybe worse because rotator cuffs are more fragile. I know mine don’t like OH press following bench.
[quote]Vortura wrote:
My bench is at 380 and OH at 230 (both lifts with nothing more than wrist wraps and a belt) but most importantly, both are still moving up and I haven’t missed a rep in weeks. I have a 5-3-1 type thing going for both lifts, but staggered so that my bench 1-rep max day is roughly 2 weeks apart from the overhead press. I say roughly 2 weeks because the 2 lifts are 3.5 days apart from each other so they can never be exactly 2 weeks apart.
As far as what it helps with bench, this may sound weird, but for me I’ve noticed that right after the bench liftoff, that feeling of “oh shit this is heavy” keeps gradually going away, even at close-to-max bench efforts. Like maybe from doing heavy overheads, now when I’m holding an even heavier bar, but while lying on a bench, it doesn’t seem to be such a big deal. So perhaps it helps with stability, lockouts. I just try to be careful and not get ahead of myself because one careless move and then I’ll be facing setbacks with both lifts.
As far as doing OH press right after bench like the routine that started this post, to me that would be like deadlifting right after squatting and then trying to get an accurate measurement of where your deadlift is at. But maybe worse because rotator cuffs are more fragile. I know mine don’t like OH press following bench. [/quote]
By the sounds of it our training philosophies are completely opposite. Not that that is a bad thing. But personally I feel like you’re selling the body short. Maybe this is something that works best for you, but in I think general people believe that they’re bodies are dainty little things that are going to break at any moment. If volume, frequency and intensity are all modulated properly it is possible to handle alot more work than what is presumed, specifically online.
Personally I almost always deadlift after squatting because you always deadlift after squatting in a meet. If you don’t have the work capacity to deadlift after squatting what good is your deadlift numbers when the time comes for it to count?
[quote]clutz15 wrote:
By the sounds of it our training philosophies are completely opposite. Not that that is a bad thing. But personally I feel like you’re selling the body short. Maybe this is something that works best for you, but in I think general people believe that they’re bodies are dainty little things that are going to break at any moment. If volume, frequency and intensity are all modulated properly it is possible to handle alot more work than what is presumed, specifically online.
Personally I almost always deadlift after squatting because you always deadlift after squatting in a meet. If you don’t have the work capacity to deadlift after squatting what good is your deadlift numbers when the time comes for it to count?
[/quote]
Our training philosophies sound pretty similar. I train using RPE-regulated block periodization, currently benching six times a week (three competition, three assistance), squatting three times (two competition, one assistance) and deadlifting three times (same as squat) spread over four sessions. You can train with a lot more volume and frequency than most people think if you don’t hammer yourself into the ground every day. It just takes a little self-awareness and experience.
Also, for what its worth, I haven’t done a single rep of overhead lifting in about three years, and my raw bench is in the ballpark of 490-500lbs at 220. I trained it a lot for a while, but I never saw any carryover and I think I had some impingement issues, so I cut it entirely.
[quote]TB284 wrote:
my raw bench is in the ballpark of 490-500lbs at 220. [/quote]
Do you compete? a 490 bench at 220 would put you in the top 10 on powerliftingwatch.com easily.
[quote]TB284 wrote:
Our training philosophies sound pretty similar. I train using RPE-regulated block periodization, currently benching six times a week (three competition, three assistance), squatting three times (two competition, one assistance) and deadlifting three times (same as squat) spread over four sessions. You can train with a lot more volume and frequency than most people think if you don’t hammer yourself into the ground every day. It just takes a little self-awareness and experience.[/quote]
What kind of bench, squat and deadlift assistance do you use?
[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
[quote]TB284 wrote:
my raw bench is in the ballpark of 490-500lbs at 220. [/quote]
Do you compete? a 490 bench at 220 would put you in the top 10 on powerliftingwatch.com easily. [/quote]
Doing my first full meet next month, USAPL PA state championships. I’ve been doing some local bench only contests for fun for a couple of years, but my squat and deadlift weren’t near where I wanted them to be before now.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
What kind of bench, squat and deadlift assistance do you use?[/quote]
For bench, I’m currently doing closegrip bench with a competition pause, touch and go bench, and 2-count pause bench. I’ve gone from being slightly weaker off of my chest to actually struggling a bit more towards lockout in recent years, so I devote two-thirds of my extra benching to working on that.
For squat, I’m only doing 2-count pause squats right now. I’ve tried pin-squats, but I’ve had an awful time getting into a good groove with those. I’ll probably include front squats at some point when I branch out into a higher workload after my next meet, but for now I’ve left them out. I’ve been having lots of knee problems for a year that just seem to be calming down, and they seem to exacerbate things.
For deadlifts, I only do pause deadlifts (or halting deadlifts, whatever you’d like to call them), pausing a couple of inches off of the floor before finishing the lift. I’ve never had good results with deficits or snatch-grip when I’ve tried them, but the pause deadlifts really help me keep my back position sorted out.
How/why did you move into training so frequently?
And how do you regulate your volume and intensities since you are lifting so frequently?
[quote]LoRez wrote:
How/why did you move into training so frequently?
And how do you regulate your volume and intensities since you are lifting so frequently?[/quote]
I first jumped into high(er) frequency training about four years ago with the various Sheiko templates floating around. I wanted to train more often because I just really enjoyed it, and they seemed like a good challenge. I responded pretty well to it, so I used those interspersed with a few months of other training styles here and there. (5/3/1 for a break from the volume, pseudo-Bulgarian stuff for a chance to handle heavier weights often, etc.) I tried writing my own programming for a bit in a sort of Sheiko-style, but I didn’t do so well with that. I’d either go too easy on myself or write something that looked good on paper, but ended up beating the shit out of me.
I was pretty used to the frequency at this point, but I needed to find a good way to work auto-regulation into things, so I adopted the RPE methodology of Mike Tuscherer. If you’re familiar with his stuff at all, I set up my last couple of blocks with lower RPE’s and generally higher fatigue percents (6-10% mostly, using combination drops at the higher end) on the higher volume periods, and higher RPE’s (9-10) with more moderate fatigue percents (4-7%) on the higher intensity periods, using different kinds of fatigue drops preferentially with different movements based on what I seemed to respond to. I used that scheme on all movements across the board this time around, but I’d like to work some things differently after my meet.