'Raw Deal' Busts Labs Across U.S.

Pharma
61

Hey tone they stated that they are going after the end consumers as well in this sting. They said that in Opperation Gear Grinder they were going after the suppliers but in this new one they are going after both. They mentioned that they had enough information from the steroid boards to arrest end consumers for years to come, it’s just a matter of going through all the data they collected and issuing warrents.

Needless to say all my gear is gone since they already have my name and address.

Sooo anyone know of any good pro-hormones lol kidding

62

[quote]KNB wrote:
Lest we not forget the “disclaimer” on this site, you know, the one that states in effect “all of our IP addresses are logged, and if the Feds want them we will only be notified by the Feds” (after it’s too late)[/quote]

And of course, for those of us who have ordered Biotest products, our mailing addresses are “logged” as well.

63

What I suspect is that every time they take down a big one they hand out their customer lists to the local police agencies which then get to make the arrests on the consumer. Its a win win for the law inforcement since the FBI gets the big fish and the small local police get us, which makes both of them look good.

If you look at the people that the FBI or DEA are getting they have MASSIVE amounts of gear. One guy in NY had a storage facility filled with tras cans full of orals and powders.

What I wonder is how many pro’s will be getting mixed up in this. I mean how the hell do they always keep their asses out of the fire? Just look at them and you know they have a source and use massive amount so how do they never get caught?

We need to learn from them and the pro sports players.

64

I wouldn’t be surprised if they went after a bunch of end users and then cut them a deal for testimony against the sellers.

65

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
…
What I wonder is how many pro’s will be getting mixed up in this. I mean how the hell do they always keep their asses out of the fire? Just look at them and you know they have a source and use massive amount so how do they never get caught?

We need to learn from them and the pro sports players. [/quote]

Ask Barry Bonds and Greg Anderson.

66

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
Hey tone they stated that they are going after the end consumers as well in this sting. They said that in Opperation Gear Grinder they were going after the suppliers but in this new one they are going after both. They mentioned that they had enough information from the steroid boards to arrest end consumers for years to come, it’s just a matter of going through all the data they collected and issuing warrents.

Needless to say all my gear is gone since they already have my name and address.

Sooo anyone know of any good pro-hormones lol kidding

      I don't know how it would help them to spend time and money to deal with small end users,....I think that the cost would far outweigh the payoff for them...I'm betting that they're going after mainly players of the game for profit, who have substantial property/money/etc. that could be seized and absorbed by the powers that be for their piggy banks...and keep them busy, since the real druggie dealers are much harder to deal with.

              To say it's not unnerving would be a lie though....
                    [/quote]

I’m sure the power players are their end goal, but I bet they figure if they can put a few little guys in the whole and scare them then they will be able to get to the big boys.

67

From Reuters today:

[i]People who just wanted to look healthier were among those who bought steroids from a vast sales network exposed this week after a two-year international probe, a senior U.S. drug enforcement agent said on Tuesday.

“Some semi-professional body builders and personal trainers (ordered steroids), but just as well, average Americans who were going into the gym and who wanted to get bigger and wanted to get stronger,” said John Gilbride, the Drug Enforcement Administration agent who oversaw the investigation.

“There were firefighters, some law enforcement individuals, individuals from every walk of life,” he told CNN.[/i]

68

From the NY Times today:

[i]D.E.A. agents are compiling a computerized database of thousands of buyers. No users of the drugs were identified yesterday, although the D.E.A. said it was trying to establish their identities and might share that information with professional sports leagues and antidoping officials if their athletes are involved.

“They may not all be prosecuted, but we will be identifying them,” said John P. Gilbride, a special agent in charge of the D.E.A. office in New York. “We have names. We have addresses. We have thousands of names, but I cannot give you an exact number.”[/i]

69

I am beginning research now as to how to form a political agenda. we all need it. this isnt a “user” problem. its an american problem. its a freedom problem. its a government overpowerment problem. and its gone too far. i dont care who has used or who hasnt in here.

I assume that no one in here has used. the only reason some say they have is because it sounds more legit to give advice when its comes from a 1st person point of view. correct? :wink: and i would further say that we all know that if you buy something online youve always got fake shit. there’s no crime in being stupid. just like buying a bag of oregano thinking its pot.

theres an intent to distribute law, but ive never heard of an intent to use law… and ive damn sure never heard of an “i thought i was buying something but got ripped off with bunk shit” law either. haha… this site sells products, but all products are legit and legal. i mean Flameout, for one… an anti-imflammatory.

if we get busted for taking a better version of ibuprofen, then id say every american is FUCKED!!! either way, i will begin a new thread as my findings for what we can do to fight this. it may be a while, as i want to be thorough and accurate. but we will fight this and we will be successful.

70

[quote]InTheZone wrote:

I don’t know how it would help them to spend time and money to deal with small end users,…I think that the cost would far outweigh the payoff for them…
[/quote]

Hate to say it, but since when has the government made any sense? It doesn’t generally make sense; why should we expect them to act any differently now?

71

In this community, 99.9% of the people using AAS are law abiding, gainfully employed, tax paying citizens. With the rare exception, no one is a criminal, knows a criminal, or even thinks like a criminal.

I think the DEA knows this, and is taking advantage of the fear they can instill in such normal, everyday people.

It’s not like a crack head is going to be scared into quitting his habit, but computer techs, carpenters, accountants, nurses, and students that have no physical addiction to AAS can be scared into quitting. If the DEA can take away demand, it takes care of supply.

Too bad the government has decided to pick on the little folks that are actually contributing to society, and paying their salaries.

72

[quote]Schwarzenegger wrote:
Question to the mods: Are private messages stored after we delete them?

I’d imagine federal agents have either direct access through open access by T-Nation due to law, or indirect access by hacking. I’ve gotten plenty of PMs with information that would obviously not be posted in an open forum, but it makes me wonder how private this information really is.

Most of the info about sources is given through PM, which makes me suspect that PMs are available to federal agents, PMs about sources are given to users who are actually federal agents, or both.[/quote]

We take privacy and “hack attempts” very seriously, whether from the private sector or the government. The only way they could access our data is via a court order, and even that is no guarantee the data they need will be made available to them.

73

[quote]rainjack wrote:
In this community, 99.9% of the people using AAS are law abiding, gainfully employed, tax paying citizens. With the rare exception, no one is a criminal, knows a criminal, or even thinks like a criminal.

I think the DEA knows this, and is taking advantage of the fear they can instill in such normal, everyday people.

It’s not like a crack head is going to be scared into quitting his habit, but computer techs, carpenters, accountants, nurses, and students that have no physical addiction to AAS can be scared into quitting. If the DEA can take away demand, it takes care of supply.

Too bad the government has decided to pick on the little folks that are actually contributing to society, and paying their salaries.

[/quote]

I hear ya on that, the problem is that it has been very effective because those that use probably downplay the repercussions/chances of being busted in their head and when they hear news of this crackdown and statements to the effect of “we have a list of individuals who purchased…” they start to realize the potential problems involved.

I can’t believe how much effort was put into this, while a lot of the internet stuff was probably easy to get a hold of (unencrypted messages and such) could you imagine the shear volume of information that would have to be processed?

Not to mention the fact that our law enforcement was working with a few other countries, how the hell did we manage to get along with China on this but can’t seem to get shit else accomplished with them. This is a troubling use of manpower…I guess crack/heroin/theft/child molestation problems have been solved in the U.S.

74

Our good government can’t make a dent in the real war on drugs, so they target an easy kill. AAS is easy to target. There’s a money trail. Not so at your local crack corner.

In the end, our government will proclaim how they are making society a safer place by taking illegal drugs off the streets. Don’t mind their failed attempts with cocaine, heroine and meth. AAS will make up for it.

Again, I wonder why a person couldn’t get a license by taking a course on responsible use… and use. Alcohol is more destructive to a community, yet it’s legal.

Fuck You G-Men.

75

[quote]InTheZone wrote:

        But what about these other sites makes them different from us?
                curious bro,
            please keep making me feel better about the situation.
                ToneBone[/quote]

I believe Titan Med Supply got busted because they sold kits for fina and synovex. This is the only thing I can think of. That and they advertise on steroid boards. I’m not sure why RLS got busted, though I’d imagine they did stuff the general public isn’t aware of and was outside the realm of just oils and filters.

Anyone, please correct me if I’m wrong. The reason the other board owners got busted is because they sold, facilitated the sale of, or allowed the sale of drugs on their site. The documents posted in the forum explain the full details. The biggest problem with those boards is that they are open source.

They advertise and are sponsored by companies which sell AAS. This is just stupid. Those other boards are also just steroid boards. While a lot of talk goes on at T-Nation about steroids, the average posters here and the information we talk about is quite a bit toned down compared to those sites.

The steroids forum here is an adjunct to a much larger website, instead of the other way around for those other boards. I’d bet info from T-Nation made up only a small percentage of the data they collected, and was likely not a primary source of data collection or investigation for the reasons above.

I can log into most other steroid boards and find a source either advertised or in the forums in a matter of seconds. Even powder sources were openly advertising for a while not too long ago. On T-Nation you’d be hard pressed to find a direct source for illegal drugs or someone openly associated with an UGL.

Aside from that, another poster mentioned it not being illegal buying fake drugs with the intent of buying the real thing. This is illegal. If I sell you fake coke (chalk or something) and you get busted during the sale, you’re fucked. You can also go to jail for passing fakes as real drugs.

76

[quote]rainjack wrote:
In this community, 99.9% of the people using AAS are law abiding, gainfully employed, tax paying citizens. With the rare exception, no one is a criminal, knows a criminal, or even thinks like a criminal.

I think the DEA knows this, and is taking advantage of the fear they can instill in such normal, everyday people.

It’s not like a crack head is going to be scared into quitting his habit, but computer techs, carpenters, accountants, nurses, and students that have no physical addiction to AAS can be scared into quitting. If the DEA can take away demand, it takes care of supply.

Too bad the government has decided to pick on the little folks that are actually contributing to society, and paying their salaries.
[/quote]

I recall TC doing an interview a while back on a handful of police officers who were on AAS. They all agreed that, at their level, AAS users were definitely among their lowest priorities.

77

A few years ago I was in the “the steroids R BAD!!1!” camp, buying into what the general public was being told. Basic research into hormonal issues with men, combined with the information I’ve picked up here, served to open my eyes and change my point of view.

I still haven’t done steroids, and I can’t say as it’s something I feel a driving need for, but this intrusion of government is nonsensical enough that I’m wondering how much pressure it would take to get Canadian politicans to take a second look at this issue.

So far they’re decidedly obtuse. Hell, the Ontario legislature actually refused to listen to the issue of raw milk safety, never mind actually go through the effort of re-examining their stance on it. An armed tactical team actually raided a small dairy farm and confiscated his equipment because he was selling raw milk through a legal loophole. I can just imagine the looks that a steroid advocate would draw.

78

If you think thats bad, the EU actually regulates the size and curvature of bananas…no joke. Don’t think that this is a Democrat problem, or a Republican problem, a Canadian problem, or a United States problem. It’s a government problem. Government’s are big ass pit bulls that can get tons of shit done, but if they get off their leash will run over and rip your toddlers face off.

79

From a purely selfish standpoint, this is just going to make it more expensive and harder to get AAS.

80


If there is one thing I despise in this world, it is a bully. A bully is merely a coward who is aggressive and hides behind whatever power he can lord over his chosen victims. So what do you make of this comment by DEA Agent Steve Robertson in Washington…

“We’re going to work our way down the food chain,” Robertson said. “And that’s why people out there who are customers need to understand that, No. 1, by using steroids they are breaking the law, and No. 2, they need to realize that this stuff is dangerous”…

Oh really?. The fact is that AAS have only been illegal in the USA between 15-17 years, depending on how you are counting, not a very long time. Now why is it that it has taken this long for this organization to decide it is suddenly so important to start intimidating the ‘customers’, the little guy?.

Dangerous? To whom? And since when is a government employee been deemed the wise god-like lord empowered to lecture and browbeat the educated and adult citizenry as to what they are permitted to ingest?.

I dont see the DEA shutting down the tobacco companies and going after the guy who picks up a deck of smokes at a stop & rob store (a ‘legal’ habit proven to have adverse health effects, BTW), yet we are supposed to blindly accept that we should be persecuted and jailed because AAS is ‘dangerous’ and relatively recently become ‘illegal’, simply because this bully, and his cowardly backers (including congress), say so?.

(In spite of overwhelming facts that the AMA and even the DEA itself asserted against this, and on the record at that!)�?�As uneducated and uninformed as the general public may be on the subject, these purported ‘experts’, who have no excuse, are in fact even more ignorant (or is it knowingly evil) about AAS! So I ask again:Exactly who is fooling whom here?…

Now, speaking of the short-term memory loss as to just how recently AAS have been declared illegal, and this new intimidation directed toward the little guy with a couple of vials and a fistful of pills in his fridge…Well, Ive heard that before.

Consider this clip of what they were saying back in 2005 (and how they were feebly attempting to justify not going after armed and violent cocaine/meth/crack/heroin dealers in preference to AAS users, who I might add, have never once engaged in an armed confrontation with law enforcement). Does this sound familiar?..

(USA Today-12/15/2005) “This is a huge organization and we know a half million kids have admitted to using steroids in the past year, so I think it’s a logical inference that a lot of this stuff is getting down to the high school-age athlete who is buying from the dealer in the gym,” said DEA special agent Doug Coleman.

“Some of those 2,000 (identified buyers) are young kids, anyone with access to a computer has access to the websites (of the eight companies).”

“Because this is the biggest one we’ve ever done we went after the manufacturers as well as the distributors, all the way down to the retail buyers we’re hoping it’s going to have a significant impact on the market,” said Coleman. "What it shows to everybody out there is that we’re going after everyone, it doesn’t matter where they’re at.

It covers the entire steroid trafficking organization, from the manufacturers all the way down to the guy buying on the internet site and selling in the corner gym to the high school kids in there lifting weights."

The DEA has begun locating the 2,000 plus U.S.-based customers, a task complicated by the fact that buyers use fake names and have packages sent to addresses other than their own. “We have agents all over the country trying to track down who all these people are,” Coleman said.

The DEA will attempt to track these buyers down through shipping records and email addresses. “If they’ve received packages through the mail we can absolutely charge them with a violation of federal law,” Coleman said_end
'Kids are not supposed to smoke, drink, and do rec drugs either (Can I get a ‘Duh’?, Brothers & Sisters?), but they do nonetheless.

This argument is hollow and bankrupt, has always been and continues to be, and we all know it. We continue to ask where are the bodies, where is this evidence?. There is no significant evidence to support their claims, and we know it, only desperate, weak appeals to emotions; arguments as weak as the flabby, testosterone deprived bodies of the egotistical, psychopathic, craven little cowards that have supported this twisted crusade.

We know the ‘evil’ side effects trotted out every time are inevitably exaggerated hyperbole. We know that AAS is primarily for adult males, not the immature. We are not stupid, yet are continually treated as not only such, but as ‘dangerous degenerate criminals’ justified to be stolen from, caged away from society, all based on flawed science, rumor, innuendo, ignorance, political ‘correctness’ and corruption, myths, hysteria, resentment, jealousy, and outright blatant lies. [i]

Anyone with the bare minimum of insight can reason that use of AAS is not the 'crime, but in fact, the flawed and unjustified measures taken against AAS users are the real crime[/i]…So,I ask again:Exactly who is fooling whom here?…

In the meantime:
USA Violent crime rate rises for the first time in 12 years (But the DEA are busy looking for roids while the bodies of drug war victims pile up in the morgues)�?�.
http://www.mercurynews.com/crime/ci_6992819?nclick_check=1
Childhood Obesity - Eating Habits in Children influenced by Easily Accessible Unhealthy Choices (So lets arrest the ‘users’ at Doughnut World, right?)�?�
http://bestsyndication.com/?q=092507_childhood_obesity_statistics.htm