Rap Music

[quote]grey wrote:
It’s all the fucking same shit. Some rappy gangster talking about his shit wearing a bazzilion diamonds and holding a fucking grail with more diamonds in it.
[/quote]

This has been addressed. It isn’t all the “same shit.” Only the trash played on MTV.

I don’t expect anyone to go out hunting for music that doesn’t get airplay in a genre they don’t even like, but at least understand that what is on TV is only a small portion of the genre. Hell, I could probably even name 5-10 artists/groups that do get airplay don’t fit this mold. Doesn’t matter, though, most people alreay have their minds made. Rap sucks, right?

[quote]malonetd wrote:
Kratos wrote:
Stop talking white!
[/quote]
Mah, bad, foo’! But mah momma’s white! At leas’ she HA-LF white. She Mexican too. Mah daddy a brutha, tho’, so ah cuh’ still represENT, 'yo.

I like some rap, mostly if they have something to talk about besides money, rims, cars, or 'dis bitch 'dat bitch, shoes, jerseys, jewelery, groupies etc. etc. I prefer the older stuff as well. like Ice Cube, Dr. Dre, and I also dig Outkast and Mos Def.

Yeah, definetely like it, been a fan for the last 12 years or so.

If you want some good hiphop then check out Immortal Technique, his lyrics are top notch.

[quote]grey wrote:
Rap is stupid and it sucks.
What the fuck is it that people like about it? It’s gotten to the point that I turn on the TV here in Ukraine and guess what? Russian rappers with sideways hats and bigass pants. Holy shit.
I hope rap dies like disco.

It’s all the fucking same shit. Some rappy gangster talking about his shit wearing a bazzilion diamonds and holding a fucking grail with more diamonds in it.
What is it that makes these fuckers so insecure that they have to show how fucking rich and succesful they are in every video? Expensive cars and mansions that probably don’t even belong to them.
Women gyrating and acting like hoes everywhere. It’s fucking degrading and stupid.
I guess to answer the question…no I do not like rap.
Whatever happened to jazz? R&B? Blues?
Die rap die.[/quote]

Yes, mainstream hiphop/rap is shit. Don’t generalise though, listen to some “A Tribe Called Quest” for example. There is so much hiphop which isn’t given any air time on radios or tvs and generally that hiphop is the the real hiphop, the hiphop with a message to it, with something meaningful to say, not just “bitches, hoes, blunts, chains and guns”…

Immortal Technique is one of my favorites out there at the moment.

Im a big fan of Rap, dont like the mainstream pop rap like 50 cent and G-Unit. Much more into people Like The Game with all the underground mixtapes and such. DMX, Red and Meth, Paul Wall, Juelz Sanatana, T.I…

Liking/disliking some genre of music seems pointless, since there may always be something you like and something you dislike no matter the genre. There can be good and crappy songs in metal, rap, dance, whatever

It’s like:
Like rap = super baggy pants that almost fall off and a hat worn at a stupid angle, acting like some low quality gangsta wannabe = must hate metal
Like metal = leather and lots of chains no matter the weather (cold outside, they stand there blue and shaking in their tight leather pants and open jackets/hot outside, they stand there sweating in all-black leather) = must hate rap

Both are extremes and should be reserved for kids and stupid people

Just find something you like because of the way it sounds, not because of the genre

PS. I like rap. Bass and a fat beat, why not?

[quote]BPC wrote:
k_lifter wrote:
BPC wrote:
What exactly IS this “whole wigger thing?” I mean what does that mean anyways? Please define for me how white kids are “supposed” to act, how Hispanic kids are supposed to act, and how black kids are supposed to act.

I didn’t know hip hop CD’s came w/a label stating "Warning: white kids must not act like black gangsters upon hearing this black gangster music;only black kids can act that way and it be socially acceptable.

Please educate me.

Yeah, you need some sort of education, try going back to school - your a moron. WTF are you talking about? Read through what i’ve wrote before answering.

You’re the moron. First, I’m in college idiot! Second, I’ve read all of your garbage.

It didn’t make any sense the first time or the second. White kids don’t have to act “white” whatever that means. I’m still waiting on your “white/black” definition.

Yes, it’s stupid when ANY kid acts “hard,” or let me clarify what that word means for you since it’s too “street/slang” for you it means somebody is tough or trying to act tough. That is annoying when any young kid acts like that regardless of race. You’re an ignorant fool that believes white kids and black kids have to act a certain way.

How/when/why did you formulate these stereotypical beliefs?

[/quote]

Oh sorry college boy, I bow to your intellectual superiority, as we all know American college education is top knotch. yawn!. I’m also sorry for obviously undermining your whole FAKE belief system, about how your black (or a wanna be). And if you had bothered to read my post and actually tried to understand what I had written, you’d have realised I was primarily talking about MIDDLE CLASS white kids (more so).

Maybe the average white American kid these days can only ‘fit in’, by being a pretentious twat, with no cultural standing. And maybe Black culture has taken over in your country. But over here in the UK, shit’s a bit different. Blacks are black and whites are white, UK hip hop has died, and American hip hop is slowly dying. The only people who buy that shit are 14 year olds. I never said whites can’t listen to rap/hip hop ever - it’s just the adoption of the whole black image that’s fucking pathetic.

This deffination you keep talking of - I’m talking about how black people invent something stupid like, wearing the price tag on your base ball cap, wearing odd shoes, rolling your trouser leg up, saying “sup ya’ll”, calling women bitches. A few weeks later you’ll see some stupid white kid with his trousers down by his knees, with, a price tag on his base ball cap, his trouser leg roled up, wearing odd shoes, calling women bitches etc etc etc etc. ( Do you get the idea college boy or do you want me to break it down for your feeble mind a bit more?)

It’s just down right emulation, and the kind of copying that if I saw a black person dressed like Elvis Presly, and talking like him, i’d think “wow that’s a bit lame”. And ironically, it doesn’t happen, as it seems black people have a bit more pride. And you have the ordacity to call me ignorant you fag.

And the funny thing is, I’m not the only person to say this, my black friends say it to. If I started to act all black to my black friends and dress like them I’d get disowned, as I’d be embarrasing them and me.

Don’t get me wrong people can be what they want to be and I have nothing against black people, but, I can think what I want to think to, and I think wiggers are fucking sad.

[quote]BPC wrote:
k_lifter wrote:
BPC wrote:
What exactly IS this “whole wigger thing?” I mean what does that mean anyways? Please define for me how white kids are “supposed” to act, how Hispanic kids are supposed to act, and how black kids are supposed to act.

I didn’t know hip hop CD’s came w/a label stating "Warning: white kids must not act like black gangsters upon hearing this black gangster music;only black kids can act that way and it be socially acceptable.

Please educate me.

Yeah, you need some sort of education, try going back to school - your a moron. WTF are you talking about? Read through what i’ve wrote before answering.

You’re the moron. First, I’m in college idiot! Second, I’ve read all of your garbage.

It didn’t make any sense the first time or the second. White kids don’t have to act “white” whatever that means. I’m still waiting on your “white/black” definition.

Yes, it’s stupid when ANY kid acts “hard,” or let me clarify what that word means for you since it’s too “street/slang” for you it means somebody is tough or trying to act tough. That is annoying when any young kid acts like that regardless of race. You’re an ignorant fool that believes white kids and black kids have to act a certain way.

How/when/why did you formulate these stereotypical beliefs?

[/quote]

How can an observation be a stereotype? So your denying that this actually takes place? Or are you simply using words that you assume are relivent and intellectual sounding to back up your claim that your in college? i.e. ‘stereotype’. Is going to college unusual in yank land?, as going to college in the UK doesn’t mean your clever atall, as 90% of people goto college in the UK. And doesn’t really get you anywhere.

ster?e?o?type Pronunciation (str–tp, st?r-)
n.
One that is regarded as embodying or conforming to a set image or type.

You could say that these people are conforming to a ‘stereotype’, and all I’ve done is made an observation of their conformist ways.

Quite simple really!

I found a photo of you BPC under the term wigger.

I just want to clear a few things up. There is a huge difference between hip-hop and rap. Hip-hop requires true lyrical skills. It has also exploded to more than music to become a culture, but I won’t get into that. Rap, on the other hand, doesn’t necessarily need true lyrical skills so long as there is a decent studio, good marketing budgets and video airplay.

In a nutshell:

Hip-Hop examples: Rakim, KRS-One (BDP), Mos Def, Nas, The Roots, Common, Talib Kweli, Gang Starr

Rap examples: Ludacris, Kanye West, TI, Lil’ Jon, Master P, P-Diddy, Cassidy

Obviously this list doesn’t include everybody. These are just examples. I’m trying to keep the list around names that might be familiar to most people. I have been around hip-hop since 1975 when it started and some family from NY introduced it to me. I am a hip-hop fan, not necessarily a rap fan. I feel that much of it has fallen so far off that it is almost painful to listen to.

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
I just want to clear a few things up. There is a huge difference between hip-hop and rap. Hip-hop requires true lyrical skills. It has also exploded to more than music to become a culture, but I won’t get into that. Rap, on the other hand, doesn’t necessarily need true lyrical skills so long as there is a decent studio, good marketing budgets and video airplay.

In a nutshell:

Hip-Hop examples: Rakim, KRS-One (BDP), Mos Def, Nas, The Roots, Common, Talib Kweli, Gang Starr

Rap examples: Ludacris, Kanye West, TI, Lil’ Jon, Master P, P-Diddy, Cassidy

Obviously this list doesn’t include everybody. These are just examples. I’m trying to keep the list around names that might be familiar to most people. I have been around hip-hop since 1975 when it started and some family from NY introduced it to me. I am a hip-hop fan, not necessarily a rap fan. I feel that much of it has fallen so far off that it is almost painful to listen to.[/quote]

Your differentiation makes sense, but this is the first I’ve heard of it. The “rap” artists you listed are what I consider “hip hop”…

People are listing some good old school stuff, but why is Public Enemy not being mentioned? Lyrically, they are the most profound group out there and Chuck D is the pinnacle of inner city angst poetry, in my opinion.

Everyone else just tries to emulate.

And what about the Beastie Boys? They’ve been at it as long as I can remember.

B.

[quote]BradTGIF wrote:
ALDurr wrote:
I just want to clear a few things up. There is a huge difference between hip-hop and rap. Hip-hop requires true lyrical skills. It has also exploded to more than music to become a culture, but I won’t get into that. Rap, on the other hand, doesn’t necessarily need true lyrical skills so long as there is a decent studio, good marketing budgets and video airplay.

In a nutshell:

Hip-Hop examples: Rakim, KRS-One (BDP), Mos Def, Nas, The Roots, Common, Talib Kweli, Gang Starr

Rap examples: Ludacris, Kanye West, TI, Lil’ Jon, Master P, P-Diddy, Cassidy

Obviously this list doesn’t include everybody. These are just examples. I’m trying to keep the list around names that might be familiar to most people. I have been around hip-hop since 1975 when it started and some family from NY introduced it to me. I am a hip-hop fan, not necessarily a rap fan. I feel that much of it has fallen so far off that it is almost painful to listen to.

Your differentiation makes sense, but this is the first I’ve heard of it. The “rap” artists you listed are what I consider “hip hop”…

People are listing some good old school stuff, but why is Public Enemy not being mentioned? Lyrically, they are the most profound group out there and Chuck D is the pinnacle of inner city angst poetry, in my opinion.

Everyone else just tries to emulate.

And what about the Beastie Boys? They’ve been at it as long as I can remember.

B.

[/quote]

Like I said, the list was not a complete one. If I missed a few it is because I just brain-farted and didn’t add them. PE, Run-DMC and the Beasties definitely belong with hip-hop than with rap for their sheer positive impact alone.

Actually, I cannot take full credit for this definitions between hip-hop and rap. KRS-One, Chuck D, Mos Def and guys like this do a better explanation of it than I ever could. They put into words what I always felt was the difference between the two.

[quote]ALDurr wrote:
I just want to clear a few things up. There is a huge difference between hip-hop and rap. Hip-hop requires true lyrical skills. It has also exploded to more than music to become a culture, but I won’t get into that. Rap, on the other hand, doesn’t necessarily need true lyrical skills so long as there is a decent studio, good marketing budgets and video airplay.

In a nutshell:

Hip-Hop examples: Rakim, KRS-One (BDP), Mos Def, Nas, The Roots, Common, Talib Kweli, Gang Starr

Rap examples: Ludacris, Kanye West, TI, Lil’ Jon, Master P, P-Diddy, Cassidy

Obviously this list doesn’t include everybody. These are just examples. I’m trying to keep the list around names that might be familiar to most people. I have been around hip-hop since 1975 when it started and some family from NY introduced it to me. I am a hip-hop fan, not necessarily a rap fan. I feel that much of it has fallen so far off that it is almost painful to listen to.[/quote]

While I agree with some of your aformentioned artists based on lyrical skill, or lack thereof, lyrical content and misogyny aside, I think Luda can “spit” with the best of 'em. So can Cassidy and Kanye and T.I. on a good day. I know they aren’t as good on the mic as the “hip-hop” artists you mentioned, but who is?

And I don’t really have a problem with the “rap\hip-hop speak” or white people using it. Granted if you grew up in the suburbs (white or black), or you’re in a job interview or talking to someone where you have to give the impression of being somewhat intelligent, speak correct English. I think a lot of this “slang” is perpetuated by people who refuse\need to grow the fuck up.

My 2 cents…

[quote]Somebody wrote:
Liking/disliking some genre of music seems pointless, since there may always be something you like and something you dislike no matter the genre. There can be good and crappy songs in metal, rap, dance, whatever

It’s like:
Like rap = super baggy pants that almost fall off and a hat worn at a stupid angle, acting like some low quality gangsta wannabe = must hate metal
Like metal = leather and lots of chains no matter the weather (cold outside, they stand there blue and shaking in their tight leather pants and open jackets/hot outside, they stand there sweating in all-black leather) = must hate rap

Both are extremes and should be reserved for kids and stupid people

Just find something you like because of the way it sounds, not because of the genre

PS. I like rap. Bass and a fat beat, why not?[/quote]

Haha! Well,metal bands actually write their own songs and play instruments.
Not run their mouths about how the police kicked their ass in with a night stick.It actually takes talent to play an instrument,believe it or not.

Not saying anything about the artists here (although there is plenty of room for weirdness there as well: Mayhem (band) - Wikipedia )

But those who blindly follow what they see without any real personality are worthy of ridicule, regardless of what genre they prefer

[quote]chrismcl wrote:
If you don’t like rap because of the commercialism and simple desire to get money and bitches - then listen to these two albums, they’ll totally change your outlook on hip-hop (if not, you must be deaf):

GZA/Genius - Liquid Swords
Nas - Illmatic[/quote]

Amen! I might add:
Mos Def - Black on Both Sides
Common - Like Water for Chocolate
The Roots - Things Fall Apart

I feel hip hop went through a bit of a dry spell from mid to late 90s but definitely had a revival at the end of the 90s in terms of good music. Not so sure these days, but I feel good is on the horizon.

[quote]k_lifter wrote:
BPC wrote:
What exactly IS this “whole wigger thing?” I mean what does that mean anyways? Please define for me how white kids are “supposed” to act, how Hispanic kids are supposed to act, and how black kids are supposed to act.

I didn’t know hip hop CD’s came w/a label stating "Warning: white kids must not act like black gangsters upon hearing this black gangster music;only black kids can act that way and it be socially acceptable.

Please educate me.

Yeah, you need some sort of education, try going back to school - your a moron. WTF are you talking about? Read through what i’ve wrote before answering.

[/quote]

So you have no idea what you’re talking about then?

[quote]
BPC wrote:
Blacks are black and whites are white…[/quote]

I apologize, I’m also a “yank” in college that needs education. I for one think culture is culture, some people are going to find one attractive and submerge themselves in it. I agree with you on people having their own opinions. I hate middle class white boys pretending they have to hustle to get by in life and there for find it necessary to act “hard” to survive in the streets. Actually, this applies to all races, asians, hispanic and blacks as well. Posers are posers.

I just don’t agree with your view of “blacks are black and whites are white”. Could you clarify or is this just simply a racist comment? For example, if a black person who is not a gangster and becomes CEO of a fortune 500 comapny, is he not acting “black”? Just curious.

[quote]algian wrote:
Yeah, definetely like it, been a fan for the last 12 years or so.

If you want some good hiphop then check out Immortal Technique, his lyrics are top notch.[/quote]

Definitely second that, Immortal Technique is awesome, listened to a live recording of one of his shows from Seattle, definitely would be a great guy to see live.

[quote]En Sabah Nur wrote:
While I agree with some of your aformentioned artists based on lyrical skill, or lack thereof, lyrical content and misogyny aside, I think Luda can “spit” with the best of 'em. So can Cassidy and Kanye and T.I. on a good day. I know they aren’t as good on the mic as the “hip-hop” artists you mentioned, but who is?
[/quote]

That is my point. Nowadays, you don’t have to be able to “spit” well on the mike to make money in this industry anymore. If the artists that you mention have this ability, why hasn’t that been fully showcased before? It’s because “hip-hop” doesn’t make the money like “rap” does. I’ve listened to every one of the artists that you mentioned having the ability to flow and I haven’t seen it to the level to compare them to the ones I mentioned as hip-hop artists. You even said that this is true. In this day and age it is not needed to be successful anymore.

I’m not trying to argue with you. I am just pointing out that this slight difference makes a difference to those of us who have followed hip-hop from its beginings. I know that it is a snobbish mentality, but it is no worse than the one that classical jazz aficionados have against modern jazz.

[quote]
And I don’t really have a problem with the “rap\hip-hop speak” or white people using it. Granted if you grew up in the suburbs (white or black), or you’re in a job interview or talking to someone where you have to give the impression of being somewhat intelligent, speak correct English. I think a lot of this “slang” is perpetuated by people who refuse\need to grow the fuck up.

My 2 cents… [/quote]

(Soapbox time!)
I have a real problem with this, not just because white kids are doing it, but with the fact that it loses it authenticity when people that normally wouldn’t speak like that, start speaking like that. It sounds phony, forced and just plain stupid. I don’t care what color you are, if its not real, don’t do it.

Also, even if it is real, learn that there is a time and place for everything and that, in many places, you can be perceived as being ignorant and stupid. I tend to not do it as much because I am educated, older and am in an environment where it is not wise or necessary to use it. I teach my kids to speak correctly as well so they will be taken seriously and won’t be perceived as being ignorant. I was young once (if you ask my wife, she’ll tell you that I never really grew up! LOL!) and I understand the what fors and whys, but I also understand reality. Reality dictates that this manner of speaking can hurt you if this is all you can do.
(Soapbox time over!)

[quote]AznMscls wrote:

BPC wrote:
Blacks are black and whites are white…

I apologize, I’m also a “yank” in college that needs education. I for one think culture is culture, some people are going to find one attractive and submerge themselves in it. I agree with you on people having their own opinions. I hate middle class white boys pretending they have to hustle to get by in life and there for find it necessary to act “hard” to survive in the streets. Actually, this applies to all races, asians, hispanic and blacks as well. Posers are posers.

I just don’t agree with your view of “blacks are black and whites are white”. Could you clarify or is this just simply a racist comment? For example, if a black person who is not a gangster and becomes CEO of a fortune 500 comapny, is he not acting “black”? Just curious.[/quote]

Hating a races culture - is that racist? Fuck knows, you tell me. Anyway, I don’t care any more. I’m not saying anymore to you gangsters. Except - stop acting/talking like 50 cent it’s pathetic. I’ve just realised black culture is more previlent over in America…I feel sorry for you all.

Like I said before I have black friends, of which I get on very well with, and they know I hate hip hop and the hole “i’m a gangster” bullshit.

That’s all i’m saying I have better things to do.