Questions for Islamo-Fascists

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]Z-Man wrote:
What you guys are unable to understand is that guys like coolexec and company want to group the entire Muslim world, into one big bundle for easy, guiltless extermination. There is no other reason for posting these types of things over and over again. Bin Laden, Hitler and co did the same thing. You label a group, marginalize it and then try to kill them all. What you are trying to do is label all Muslims as Islamo-facists to make this easier on yourselves.

And yes, the Sudanese are complete assholes for perpetrating the genocid on Christians and others, so is the Saudi government for not allowing any opposition to their government. So Was Saddam Hussein for Killing thousands of his own people. But over 40,000 Iraqi’s dead doesn’t bother you guys at all. It is not the fault of the people for the governments that have been thrust upon them after WW1 and 19th century colonialism are mostly dictatorial. Most of these were friendly to the west, barring those countries that have had a revolution of some sort.

If any of you were to attent Friday sermons, you’d hear the weekly condemnation of terrorism and taking of innocent lives, and the responsibility towards peace, yet over and over we get these racists come out and say that most Muslims are terrorsts. I’m hearing statistics of 70%, which is amazing, that would mean you have over 700 million terrorsts running around blowing shit up. How absolutely stupid can you be to believe that stuff?

If you preach this stuff against Israel, it’s Anti-Semitic. If you preach this against Muslims, it’s patriotism.[/quote]

That is because you misread and generalize yourself. Islamo-facist is the term being used for the muslims that are perpetrating the crimes, not all muslims. If it were all muslims we’ed say all muslims. Now I do believe that most of the muslims do currently hate us and condon the violence commited against any non-muslim, but they are not all doing it. Also, I am not for the Iraq war. I think it was a grave mistake. Bailing out now would also be a grave mistake. You cannot fix a mistake with a mistake.

So in essence, you are grouping and lumping people together.

BTW, I have attended friday prayers. Get in the back of the mosque bitch, you are not worthy to be up front with us men!

22

[quote]Z-Man wrote:
What you guys are unable to understand is that guys like coolexec and company want to group the entire Muslim world, into one big bundle for easy, guiltless extermination.[/quote]

Nope. Just the islamo-nazi-fascists, and those that support/apologize for/sympathize with them. They must be exterminated - why should I feel guilty for wanting to rid the world of murderous cowards?

Which one are you?

23

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Nope. Just the islamo-nazi-fascists, and those that support/apologize for/sympathize with them. They must be exterminated - why should I feel guilty for wanting to rid the world of murderous cowards?

Which one are you?[/quote]

I hate terrorists, especially when they do these things in the name of Islam. Terrorists have done more to Damage Islam than the Israel or the US could have ever done. Does that answer your question?

Do you actually have no empathy for 40,000 civilian killed in Iraq?

I also recognize that much of the violence in Iraq is now Muslim on Muslim, ie. sectarian Shia/Sunni violence. The majority of Iraqi’s want to live a peaceful life, but there are those that just want to kill and destroy because of minute differences in theology or philosophy. Because of the lack of law and order, now these people have their opportunity. Iraq is now a breeding ground for terrorists.

24

[quote]coolexec wrote:
juninho wrote:
coolexec wrote:

Juninho, I do not know precisely you live although, it would appear from your postings, that they grow something really good there, and you smoke a lot of it.

I do know that you live somewhere in the UK.

Let me try to disabuse you of the notion that there are “Muslim leaders and groups, who denounce any act of killing as being un-Islamic.”

A few days ago your security services uncovered a conspiracy to bomb trans-Atlantic airliners which would have seen as many as 10 United States-bound planes (and their passengers and crews plus the US citizens living underneath the points of detonation) being destroyed by British-born Islamic terrorists.

How did your “local Muslim leaders and groups” react? They claimed that Britain’s foreign policy is responsible for the terror alert. Members of Britain’s Muslim religious, social and political organisations made their opinions known in a letter, addressed to the prime minister signed by MPs Sadiq Khan, Shahid Malik and Mohammed Sarwar, peers Lord Patel of Blackburn, Lord Ahmen of Rotherham and Baroness Uddin and 38 groups including the Muslim Association of Britain, the British Muslim Forum, the Muslim Council of Britain and the Muslim Parliament of Great Britain. It calls for an urgent revision of UK foreign policy.

It calls the Iraqi war a “debacle” and says that the failure to end attacks on civilians in the Middle East, such as the current fighting in Lebanon, is making the UK a threat to extremists.

Understandably their collective opinions on the link between terrorism and foreign policy were described as facile by the government. Juninho, do you seriously believe that a citizen?s loathing of his government’s foreign policy gives him the right to strap explosives to himself and go out and murder innocent people? Do you believe that “extremists” should be appeased in order to avert the potential threat they pose? Do you recall Neville Chamberlain?

So, do your “Muslim leaders and groups denounce any act of killing as being un-Islamic”? Do they publicly condemn the jihadists’ train bombings in Mumbai? In Madrid? Do they speak out against the rockets falling on Haifa? Do they criticise the Islamic Courts in Somalia?

No, they rather attempt to justify the jihadists and lay the blame on policies they personally or politically don’t like.
[/quote]

Actually, the letter that was submitted to the government by prominent Muslim leaders started with the line;

“Prime Minister, as British Muslims we urge you to do more to fight against all those who target civilians with violence, whenever and wherever that happens.”

Had you read the content of this letter or did you just choose to ommit the parts which did not tally with your view?

And they are perfectly justified in arguing a cause/effect relationship between British foreign policy and terrorism. The 7/7 bombers explicitly blamed this for their actions. What more evidence do you need? This in no way amounts to a declaration of support for the terrorists.

25

[quote]juninho wrote:

Actually, the letter that was submitted to the government by prominent Muslim leaders started with the line;

“Prime Minister, as British Muslims we urge you to do more to fight against all those who target civilians with violence, whenever and wherever that happens.”

Had you read the content of this letter or did you just choose to ommit the parts which did not tally with your view?

And they are perfectly justified in arguing a cause/effect relationship between British foreign policy and terrorism. The 7/7 bombers explicitly blamed this for their actions. What more evidence do you need? This in no way amounts to a declaration of support for the terrorists.

[/quote]

How dare you bring up cause and effect? Logic is not to be introduced in these arguments. We gots baddies that wear turbins and read a strange language, and do strange chants, and want to bring down our peaceful democracies. We need to kill them before they kill us.
Sheesh!

26

[quote]Z-Man wrote:
juninho wrote:

Actually, the letter that was submitted to the government by prominent Muslim leaders started with the line;

“Prime Minister, as British Muslims we urge you to do more to fight against all those who target civilians with violence, whenever and wherever that happens.”

Had you read the content of this letter or did you just choose to ommit the parts which did not tally with your view?

And they are perfectly justified in arguing a cause/effect relationship between British foreign policy and terrorism. The 7/7 bombers explicitly blamed this for their actions. What more evidence do you need? This in no way amounts to a declaration of support for the terrorists.

How dare you bring up cause and effect? Logic is not to be introduced in these arguments. We gots baddies that wear turbins and read a strange language, and do strange chants, and want to bring down our peaceful democracies. We need to kill them before they kill us.
Sheesh!

[/quote]

Sorry! I try to fight these urges normally, but I guess I have some deep-rooted faggie-communist influences that I just can’t seem to shake off.

27

[quote]Z-Man wrote:
juninho wrote:

Actually, the letter that was submitted to the government by prominent Muslim leaders started with the line;

“Prime Minister, as British Muslims we urge you to do more to fight against all those who target civilians with violence, whenever and wherever that happens.”

Had you read the content of this letter or did you just choose to ommit the parts which did not tally with your view?

And they are perfectly justified in arguing a cause/effect relationship between British foreign policy and terrorism. The 7/7 bombers explicitly blamed this for their actions. What more evidence do you need? This in no way amounts to a declaration of support for the terrorists.

How dare you bring up cause and effect? Logic is not to be introduced in these arguments. We gots baddies that wear turbins and read a strange language, and do strange chants, and want to bring down our peaceful democracies. We need to kill them before they kill us.
Sheesh!

[/quote]

So it’s called logic now? Let’s see, I do not like XY and Z. Therefore I will blow up a few people in a coffee shop because the assholes were having coffee as an offense to Mohammed and Alah. As a result me blowing up people XY and Z are still there and A,B, and C joined them…Great logic!

I just don’t get why some people not only sympathize with terrorism, but think the terrorists are right and should be doing what they are doing and doing more of it. Anybody who disaggrees are just close minded people who want to kill all muslims.

28

Coolexec has nailed it! If you fart at a muslim, the community comes out in protest. If a Christian or non-Muslim gets their head sawed off, its “Oh, we’d like to protest but we’re afraid…” They only protest something Christians do, because they know Christians are tolerant and will let them have their demonstration. Try doing the same in some bastion of Satan, like Iran.

Headhunter

29

[quote]Z-Man wrote:
juninho wrote:

Actually, the letter that was submitted to the government by prominent Muslim leaders started with the line;

“Prime Minister, as British Muslims we urge you to do more to fight against all those who target civilians with violence, whenever and wherever that happens.”

Had you read the content of this letter or did you just choose to ommit the parts which did not tally with your view?

And they are perfectly justified in arguing a cause/effect relationship between British foreign policy and terrorism. The 7/7 bombers explicitly blamed this for their actions. What more evidence do you need? This in no way amounts to a declaration of support for the terrorists.

How dare you bring up cause and effect? Logic is not to be introduced in these arguments. We gots baddies that wear turbins and read a strange language, and do strange chants, and want to bring down our peaceful democracies. We need to kill them before they kill us.
Sheesh!

[/quote]

You guys are so incredibly stupid that it defies the mind.
If I understand what you are trying to say you are, in effect, blaming the government for 7/7.
“Cause and effect” you say. Let’s reduce this to basics - I don’t like what my government does. I am, therefore, entitled to kill hundreds of innocent people to voice my displeasure.
Naturally my government must respect this unilateral decision of mine.
Obviously, my government must tow the line I dictate (no matter how distasteful it may be) because if my sensibilities are offended I’ll blow myself, and hundreds of innocent people, up.

30

[quote]coolexec wrote:

You guys are so incredibly stupid that it defies the mind.
If I understand what you are trying to say you are, in effect, blaming the government for 7/7.
“Cause and effect” you say. Let’s reduce this to basics - I don’t like what my government does. I am, therefore, entitled to kill hundreds of innocent people to voice my displeasure.
Naturally my government must respect this unilateral decision of mine.
Obviously, my government must tow the line I dictate (no matter how distasteful it may be) because if my sensibilities are offended I’ll blow myself, and hundreds of innocent people, up.

[/quote]

Nope, what we’re saying is that some extremists feel they are justified (wrongfully so) because of the Iraq. Prior to Iraq, the UK was not a target of these ‘Islamic Terrorists’

Obviously, any terrorist act is an atrocity and must be condemned, but at the same time, the cause of this alienation needs to be dealt with so we don’t breed more terrorists in the future. It makes the job of moderates very difficult in the face of Abu Gharaib, Haditha etc.

31

[quote]pat36 wrote:

So it’s called logic now? Let’s see, I do not like XY and Z. Therefore I will blow up a few people in a coffee shop because the assholes were having coffee as an offense to Mohammed and Alah. As a result me blowing up people XY and Z are still there and A,B, and C joined them…Great logic!

I just don’t get why some people not only sympathize with terrorism, but think the terrorists are right and should be doing what they are doing and doing more of it. Anybody who disaggrees are just close minded people who want to kill all muslims.[/quote]

Logic 101, the slippery slope fallacy. Just because someone thinks there are root causes to terrorism doesn’t mean they are supporting terrorism. What it means is that fighting terrorism cannot only be done via bombs and artillery, rather through finding the underlying reason of why certain people are going to such extremes. Anyone that thinks that bombing the crap out of Lebanon and Iraq has reduced the threat of terrorism is delusional.

32

[quote]pat36 wrote:

That is because you misread and generalize yourself. Islamo-facist is the term being used for the muslims that are perpetrating the crimes, not all muslims. If it were all muslims we’ed say all muslims. Now I do believe that most of the muslims do currently hate us and condon the violence commited against any non-muslim, but they are not all doing it. Also, I am not for the Iraq war. I think it was a grave mistake. Bailing out now would also be a grave mistake. You cannot fix a mistake with a mistake.

So in essence, you are grouping and lumping people together.

BTW, I have attended friday prayers. Get in the back of the mosque bitch, you are not worthy to be up front with us men!
[/quote]

These questions are directed at mainstream muslims and refers to them as “Islamo-Fascists”, so I didn’t misread it.

Why is the burden of proof on a billion people to continually defend themselves because of these so called Muslims who blow themselves up. Suicide and Murder are both prohibited, so how can this action in any way be Islamic? We have a handful of terrorists that speak out and make fatwa’s or proclamations, and thousands of clerics that denounce them. Yet, you take the words of the terrorists as the face of Islam.

There’s really no Muslim country out there which does not have problems of their own, and the last thing they are able to do is get themselves involved in places like Sudan.

And if you go to Mosque, have the courtesy to respect the religion. Women and Men are segregated, that’s just the way it is. Whether it is front/back, upstairs/downstairs, or left/right. Have the courtesy to respect someone in their own house of worship rather than insult them for their beliefs. This is the fundamental problem, you hate Muslims and your hatred blinds you, so even when you are around them, you see them through eyes of hatred. So easy to hate isn’t it?

33

A distinction needs to be made for the sake of clarity-

Terrorism= when Hezbollah or whoever (non-state group) attack violently a group of innocents in furtherance of their own (usually political) goals. This tactic rarely succeeds in the way it is intended, but does so in other ways. It is a very evil thing to murder in the name of a political agenda.

Terror= what Israel is doing when it bombs Lebanon, or when the British massacred Indians etc. This is state-based, but other than that, it’s exactly the same. ‘Collateral damage’, by any other name, is murder.

These are accepted definitions. Any ‘black and white’ analysis which concludes in any way other than ‘the killing of innocents in response to a grievance is inherently evil, and is the single greatest impediment to peace (the utopia we seek)’ is wrong. That much is black and white.

Jihad is invoked far too often by the Western press. I smell propaganda value. It makes the legitimate grievances of some groups look just as wicked as the means they employ to reach their objectives.

We in Britain have received many muslims into our society. Those who accept at least in part our culture, do well, and will speak just as loudly as they can in rejection of the means employed by arabs in furtherance of their goals since they became aware that a) the Israeli military was far too strong for them and b) because of point a), Israel refused to concede any ground whatsoever diplomatically.

Perhaps there aren’t many muslims near you. I really hope this next point isn’t true, or we are all fucked. [quote] I’d say the majority of muslims hate us and want us dead, not 0.01%. I’d say it’s closer to 70%.[/quote]

That’s almost as bad as what’ll happen to arrogant American nationalists when China decides it wants to sit at the throne.

Most of this is obviously propaganda [quote] 9/11 was the CIA so we could decalre war on islam, 3/11 spain was also done by the west as was the 7/7 attacks in Engalnd. The U.S and isreal cause the tsunami to kill muslims. This is what they are reporting over there as fact.[/quote] which isn’t cool.

[quote] The Jews have brought 65.326% of Muslim hatred on themselves via the actions of Israel. Maybe even 66%.[/quote] No, it’s 69%. A number dear to my heart. Maybe i’m a terrorist?

[quote] But the fact is all terrorist attacks lately have been perpertatrated by muslims. This is an undeniable fact[/quote] Undeniable pretretrrrurrrpatrted. That may be true. But look at Madrid- ‘It was ETA!’- oops we’re just suspicious of this demographic, so our schema will be confirmed.

[quote} z- man said=
You label a group, marginalize it and then try to kill them all.[/quote]

And this is the problem. That’s why people die. According to some theorists, an assassination is ‘the perfect terrorist deed’- you choose a fucker, kill him/her, no innocents involved. If Israel and Hezbollah did this, shit would be much better out there. Leaders who destabilise the area would die. Innocents would not. Youths would not see their families and friends die, and so fill with rage and become terrorists themselves. Get me? Is that so radical?

Neville Chamberlain was appeasing an army with massive military strength, and a racist ideology of genocide. This is not where the rebels/terrorists out in the mideast are at. If the Israelis were Buddhists, and had stolen their land, made jaffa oranges ‘Israeli’, and locked up a million or more of them in a 1mile sq. tin box, I expect they would respond to the buddhists the same. Curls and a big nose are superficial to this. So is a perm-beard and rags. This is neocolonial

[quote] Coolexec has nailed it! If you fart at a muslim, the community comes out in protest.[/quote] Despite the large Muslim population, this is the opposite of what happens in my country. They shot a Brazilian in the chest on a train last year because he had ‘dark skin and a backpack’. In my world, if you even mention ‘jew’ or ‘black’ you are a bad man. It was the same at school, snitching would take place where kids claimed they’d been called ‘Paki’. No more. Complete 180.

Apologies for the long post. It’s so fucking frustrating seeing subliminal nationalists acting like jew shit is rosy but Muslim shit (which actually kills far less people, despite its’ evil intent) is foul

34

[quote]
Logic 101, the slippery slope fallacy. Just because someone thinks there are root causes to terrorism doesn’t mean they are supporting terrorism. What it means is that fighting terrorism cannot only be done via bombs and artillery, rather through finding the underlying reason of why certain people are going to such extremes. Anyone that thinks that bombing the crap out of Lebanon and Iraq has reduced the threat of terrorism is delusional.[/quote]

Delusions of grandeur…Just because somebody thinks they know the root cause of terrorism they think they can stop it. What are you going to hold a seminar in Tehran and just simply talk them out of terrorists? Launch a tour of the middle east, get some musicians and actors and just simply talk them out of it. I think it’s called the Jedi mind trick.

It amounts to this. A small group of people wield a grudge and desire power. The prey on the poor disenfranchised and convinced them that the root of their misery is everybody else and hence brainwashed them in to thinking it. The numbers multiplied from there. The problem is truthfully that U.S. policy in the middle east is not the problem. I am sure most Arabs wouldn’t even know the U.S. existed if it weren’t for the imams telling them that the U.S. and Israel are the causes of their poverty and misery and not their own repressive governments. The only thing the U.S. has done is pour trillions of dollars into that fucking desert. But starting in 1979 they wanted to fuck with the U.S. and the more they fucked with us, the greater our presence has become. If they want to see more of the U.S., they should continue the attacks. I promise you the more they attack the more the U.S. will fight and it won’t matter whose white house it is. Iran originally went of after Jimmy Carter.

Yes, the justifications for terrorism are a slipery slope, and we have all paid dearly for it, the whole world.

35

[quote]Z-Man wrote:
Do you actually have no empathy for 40,000 civilian killed in Iraq?

I also recognize that much of the violence in Iraq is now Muslim on Muslim, ie. sectarian Shia/Sunni violence. The majority of Iraqi’s want to live a peaceful life, but there are those that just want to kill and destroy because of minute differences in theology or philosophy. Because of the lack of law and order, now these people have their opportunity. Iraq is now a breeding ground for terrorists.[/quote]

I have empathy - but that does not soften my resolve to rid the world of the vermin that we call islamo-fascists.

War sucks. Civilians will die. They do in every war. I will take exception to any notion that the U.S. is responsible for all of those 40,000 deaths.

36

[quote]pat36 wrote:

Delusions of grandeur…Just because somebody thinks they know the root cause of terrorism they think they can stop it. What are you going to hold a seminar in Tehran and just simply talk them out of terrorists? Launch a tour of the middle east, get some musicians and actors and just simply talk them out of it. I think it’s called the Jedi mind trick.

It amounts to this. A small group of people wield a grudge and desire power. The prey on the poor disenfranchised and convinced them that the root of their misery is everybody else and hence brainwashed them in to thinking it. The numbers multiplied from there. The problem is truthfully that U.S. policy in the middle east is not the problem. I am sure most Arabs wouldn’t even know the U.S. existed if it weren’t for the imams telling them that the U.S. and Israel are the causes of their poverty and misery and not their own repressive governments. The only thing the U.S. has done is pour trillions of dollars into that fucking desert. But starting in 1979 they wanted to fuck with the U.S. and the more they fucked with us, the greater our presence has become. If they want to see more of the U.S., they should continue the attacks. I promise you the more they attack the more the U.S. will fight and it won’t matter whose white house it is. Iran originally went of after Jimmy Carter.

Yes, the justifications for terrorism are a slipery slope, and we have all paid dearly for it, the whole world.
[/quote]

If you are referring to Iran’s 1979 revolution, you are gravely ignorant of the circumstances. The revolution was a direct result of US and British support for Shah Pahlavi who the US and Britain put in place after a the CIA and British facilitated a coup of democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh.

Had this democracy not been overthrown, the revolution would never have happened. The Iranian people don’t want to live under the rule of the Ayatollah’s, but they would rather than a brutal dictator like Pahlavi.

His secret police, the Savak, made the KGB look like playschool teachers.

You really should just go back to hurling insults. Don’t try to debate the facts of what you know very very very little about.

37

[quote]pat36 wrote:
Because no other religion or even agnostics and athiests think its a great idea to kill innocent people to get thier point across. Nobody else declares wars on countries and whine like … when those countries retaliate. Nobody else kills thier own to foward thier aganda. Nobody else promotes the murder of “Zionists” like we advertise McDonalds. Nobody else parties in the streets when innocent civilians are killed by thier wacked mentality. Nobody else recruits thier kids to do thier dirty work. Not even the USSR, under Stalin did such things.
[/quote]

The last sentence above is false.

The USSR under Stalin did at least three such things:

  1. They engineered the starvation of millions of men, women, and children to break resistance to collectivization of agriculture.

  2. They killed their own citizens to forward their agenda, as per #1 above.

  3. Children were recruited to do the Bolsheviks’ dirty work (although not in the same way as the Islamic terrorist children). Children were encouraged to inform the authorities if their parents were hiding potatoes to keep from starving (during the time period when #1 was underway).

The only reason the USSR under Stalin didn’t do the other stuff listed above is because it didn’t suit their purposes; not because they had any scruple against any of those things.

Cambodia under (Communist leader) Pol Pot also worked and starved a large portion of its own population to death, and it was done in a way that the deaths seemed to be a desired result, rather than a “side effect” of attempts to reorganize society.

That, I believe, would qualify as doing two “such things” as are listed in the pat36 quote further above.

I have no use for Islamic terrorism; but Bolshevism is still the all-time champion for mass-murder.

38

I have no sympathy for extremists on either side, what bothers me is that the extremists (Bin Laden, Wolfowitz, The Ayatollah’s, Cheney etc) all sit at the sidelines while other people do all the dirty work.

Whether this is via some religious indoctrination(sp?) or ‘freedom’ brainwashing, a whole bunch of peiople want to kill a whole bunch of other people. In the process, a whole bunch of other people that are not involved get killed or maimed. Whether they are 9/11 victims, Iraqi civilians, Lebanese, or Israeli, I sincerely believe that 99.99% of the people just want to live a peaceful life.

Its that meager 0.01% that causes all this shit in the world.

39

[quote]Z-Man wrote:
I have no sympathy for extremists on either side, what bothers me is that the extremists (Bin Laden, Wolfowitz, The Ayatollah’s, Cheney etc) all sit at the sidelines while other people do all the dirty work.

Whether this is via some religious indoctrination(sp?) or ‘freedom’ brainwashing, a whole bunch of peiople want to kill a whole bunch of other people. In the process, a whole bunch of other people that are not involved get killed or maimed. Whether they are 9/11 victims, Iraqi civilians, Lebanese, or Israeli, I sincerely believe that 99.99% of the people just want to live a peaceful life.

Its that meager 0.01% that causes all this shit in the world.[/quote]

I re-read that, I sound like I’m 12.

‘It’s’ not ‘Its’ etc etc.

40

[quote]Z-Man wrote:

How dare you bring up cause and effect? Logic is not to be introduced in these arguments. We gots baddies that wear turbins and read a strange language, and do strange chants, and want to bring down our peaceful democracies. We need to kill them before they kill us.
Sheesh![/quote]

Your sarcasm aside, you mangle the point of cause and effect.

If you ask Hitler, the cause of his aggression against Jews is all the awful things the Jews - and the Freemasons and gays - had done to the German race. The cause of the Holocaust was the Jewish attempt to oppress his people.

Now, if you believe Hitler, that is a perfectly valid cause-and-effect scenario. You believe him? Was he justified? Or was it just used a pretext to advance his ideology?

I don’t rely on Hitler’s version of cause and effect anymore than I rely on the Islamists’ version.

You can’t judge cause and effect outside the context of judging the cause or effect as right or wrong. And maybe the so-called cause is something completely worth doing, even if it generates some negative consequences.

And maybe the effect is nothing more than a pretext to do something that an actor wants to do independently - as in, there is no true cause at all, just an excuse. See the Islamists.

That is the case with all this - Western foreign policy doesn’t ‘cause’ Islamist mass murder. The Islamist ideology is going to conduct violence regardless of what the West does. That refutes any notion of the brainless ‘cause and effect’ you are trying to push.