Hi CT great thread. A previous poster asked about protein pulsing when on an anabolic diet type eating plan and whether protein pulsing counteracts the benefits of high fat/protein eating? I’d be interested to know your thoughts. For example, for breakfast ‘6 eggs whites’ - does that mean 6 whole eggs are not recommended? Thanks
[quote]evo2008 wrote:
Hi CT great thread. A previous poster asked about protein pulsing when on an anabolic diet type eating plan and whether protein pulsing counteracts the benefits of high fat/protein eating? I’d be interested to know your thoughts. For example, for breakfast ‘6 eggs whites’ - does that mean 6 whole eggs are not recommended? Thanks[/quote]
It was an example. Pulsing can be done with any diet. BUT if you are on a high fat diet then the pulses must come between meals since the fat would slow down casein’s absorption which would negate the effect of the pulse.
[quote]evo2008 wrote:
Hi CT great thread. A previous poster asked about protein pulsing when on an anabolic diet type eating plan and whether protein pulsing counteracts the benefits of high fat/protein eating? I’d be interested to know your thoughts. For example, for breakfast ‘6 eggs whites’ - does that mean 6 whole eggs are not recommended? Thanks
It was an example. Pulsing can be done with any diet. BUT if you are on a high fat diet then the pulses must come between meals since the fat would slow down casein’s absorption which would negate the effect of the pulse.[/quote]
Thanks CT - one more query if I may. I know you use a cider vinegar/cinnamon combo to control insulin sensitivity. However - how does this fit in with your pulsing? Do you use a cinnamon protocol with whole food meals, then pulse, then have another meal back with the cinnamon? What’s the effect on insulin function and sensitivity when using a pulsing protocol in the long-term?
Hi Coach. Two quick questions:
1)Is it ok -or even beneficial- to pulse before your last meal or two on ‘off’ days where you aren’t training?. I have been pulsing then eating 4 or 5 times on these days.
-
Apologies in advance if this is in the wrong thread …We can’t import Finibars into Austalia (yet) so would using around 45-50grams (I weigh 218lbs @ 12%BF trying to go to 9-10%) BCAA’s 45-60mins pre workout work as an acceptable substitute for the Finibars in the para workout protocol until we can? (I would be consuming the BCAA powder 4 hours after my 1st ‘light’ protein meal of the day if that makes a difference)
Thanks
[quote]peter skelton wrote:
Hi Coach. Two quick questions:
1)Is it ok -or even beneficial- to pulse before your last meal or two on ‘off’ days where you aren’t training?. I have been pulsing then eating 4 or 5 times on these days.
2) Apologies in advance if this is in the wrong thread …We can’t import Finibars into Austalia (yet) so would using around 45-50grams (I weigh 218lbs @ 12%BF trying to go to 9-10%) BCAA’s 45-60mins pre workout work as an acceptable substitute for the Finibars in the para workout protocol until we can? (I would be consuming the BCAA powder 4 hours after my 1st ‘light’ protein meal of the day if that makes a difference)
Thanks[/quote]
- it is perfectly fine. In fact, pulsing can actually increase protein synthesis without a training stimulus.
- It’s not even remotely the same thing. The Finibars provide around 15g of protein and 40g of carbs. But most importantly is the type of carbs in there. The only thing that would work as a replacement is 2 more scoops of WORKOUT FUEL and 1 scoop of whey (preferably hydrolysate)
[quote]evo2008 wrote:
evo2008 wrote:
Hi CT great thread. A previous poster asked about protein pulsing when on an anabolic diet type eating plan and whether protein pulsing counteracts the benefits of high fat/protein eating? I’d be interested to know your thoughts. For example, for breakfast ‘6 eggs whites’ - does that mean 6 whole eggs are not recommended? Thanks
It was an example. Pulsing can be done with any diet. BUT if you are on a high fat diet then the pulses must come between meals since the fat would slow down casein’s absorption which would negate the effect of the pulse.
Thanks CT - one more query if I may. I know you use a cider vinegar/cinnamon combo to control insulin sensitivity. However - how does this fit in with your pulsing? Do you use a cinnamon protocol with whole food meals, then pulse, then have another meal back with the cinnamon? What’s the effect on insulin function and sensitivity when using a pulsing protocol in the long-term?[/quote]
I hate when people say “I know that you do this or that…”. Unless you live with me and see me work, you can’t KNOW what I’m doing. The fact is that I do recommend these two products to some clients, but they are not a staple in my programs and diets.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
peter skelton wrote:
Hi Coach. Two quick questions:
1)Is it ok -or even beneficial- to pulse before your last meal or two on ‘off’ days where you aren’t training?. I have been pulsing then eating 4 or 5 times on these days.
2) Apologies in advance if this is in the wrong thread …We can’t import Finibars into Austalia (yet) so would using around 45-50grams (I weigh 218lbs @ 12%BF trying to go to 9-10%) BCAA’s 45-60mins pre workout work as an acceptable substitute for the Finibars in the para workout protocol until we can? (I would be consuming the BCAA powder 4 hours after my 1st ‘light’ protein meal of the day if that makes a difference)
Thanks
- it is perfectly fine. In fact, pulsing can actually increase protein synthesis without a training stimulus.
- It’s not even remotely the same thing. The Finibars provide around 15g of protein and 40g of carbs. But most importantly is the type of carbs in there. The only thing that would work as a replacement is 2 more scoops of WORKOUT FUEL and 1 scoop of whey (preferably hydrolysate)[/quote]
Thanks Coach, that was exactly the info I needed…I’ve got plenty of WORKOUT FUEL and Whey Hydrolysate so I’ll use that now instead until we can get the FINiBARS.
I’m assuming that I use that combo at the same time para workout, -45 to -60mins?
*BTW…since using the WORKOUT FUEL (which is f!*king DELICIOUS!) I have ZERO craving for carbs
-even pizza- in the evenings which is a pretty cool ‘side effect’ when trying to improve body comp! Dunno if others have noticed this too?..
Very interesting stuff. There’s definitely some gold in these ideas, we just need to sort it all out. From what’s been presented by CT, DH, and others, it seems like the compiled data is something like this:
Following a meal, plasma amino acid concentration (most importantly LEU) remains elevated above baseline for around 6 hours.
However, protein synthesis as a result of that meal seems to decline after the 2-3 hour mark.
LEU reaches s saturation point concentration at a dose of about .05 g/kg.
So, putting these points together, it seems like attempting to pulse at the two hour mark (with meals every four hours) is not the best idea. However, we should go back ultimately to some of the major ideas behind pulsing in the first place. In particular, although pulsing at a point when plasma amino acid concentration is above baseline is not ideal for hyperaminoacidaemia, it would certainly allow for someone to “piggy-back” on the decline in PS from the previous meal at the 2-3 hour mark without having to use a large amount of protein again (ie: another meal).
That’s beneficial for preventing the protein blackout effect, and thus it would be better than continuing to eat protein rich meals every 2-3 hours. So the real issue seems to be getting aminos to a low enough level. I think ultimately, a good way to combine the knowledge in the thread would be to go back to CT’s original recommendation of eating 3-4 main meals, but instead of having a protein pulse between the meals, have it leading up to each meal:
4-5g LEU 30 minutes prior
12-15g casein hydrolysate 15 minutes prior
and ideally a meal that is composed of easily/rapidly digested protein/energy sources at least for the first part of the day. Now, in reality I think (like CT said) that having the LEU 15 mins before the CH is such minutiae that it’s not really of any importance. I think taking the 14g CH + 5g LEU 20 minutes before your meal would be almost identical in efficacy.
So, say you wake up at 8 am and work out around lunch time. You’re day might look like this:
8:00am: 14g CH + 5g LEU
8:30am: fast absorbed meal, preferably fast acting protein with carbs
10:00am begin workout nutrition
11:30am-12:30am: workout/ consume CH and LEU
1:30pm: 14g CH + 5g LEU
2:00pm: meal
7:40pm: 14g CH + 5g LEU
8:00pm: meal
Before bed: slow absorbed protein and fat for more calories
And then if addition calories were needed eat low protein foods between meals. Note: I didn’t include a pulse before bed because I’m assuming it’s only been 2-4 hours since your 8pm meal, in which case pulsing is of no real importance. The final meal is included so as to keep your amino acid profile elevated throughout the night, and by the time you wake up you’d be near baseline and pulsing would be very powerful.
BT
This makes no sense at all to me:
…whole proteins resulted in a more rapid absorption of leucine and branched-chain amino acid into the blood compared with the hydrolysed molecular form of whey protein. Taylor & Francis - Harnessing the Power of Knowledge
I see where you’re going BlakedaMan.
What is the recommended time between a meal and a pulse? Has anyone posted science about the topic?
If you have just 3 main meals per day as laid out above, how much protein will you be eating per meal? The size of the protein meal (the amount of protein) lengthens the amount of time plasma amino acid concentration is elevated. This would mean you’d have to space the meals out even farther/further apart. Is it possible to space them appropriately so that you can effectively pulse?
[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:
I see where you’re going BlakedaMan.
What is the recommended time between a meal and a pulse? Has anyone posted science about the topic?
If you have just 3 main meals per day as laid out above, how much protein will you be eating per meal? The size of the protein meal (the amount of protein) lengthens the amount of time plasma amino acid concentration is elevated. This would mean you’d have to space the meals out even farther/further apart. Is it possible to space them appropriately so that you can effectively pulse?[/quote]
Well there’s a fourth meal (pre-bed). Also, you’re getting quite a bit of protein from pulses and workout nutrition so, if this methodology is as effective as thought, I’d think that 1g/pound of body weight split up over the four meals would be good. Although there’s no science to back up that claim, but the idea of pulsing is to increase the efficacy with which you use protein for protein synthesis. I think I’m going to try the above stated plan, and have meals of about 40-50g of protein.
DH posted some science that I included in my first post about plasma aminos being elevated for about 6 hours after a meal, and so it seems that by waiting for the full 6 hours, aminos would be very close to baseline, and thus the pulse and meal would be very effective at stimulating PS.
[quote]BlakedaMan wrote:
BulletproofTiger wrote:
I see where you’re going BlakedaMan.
What is the recommended time between a meal and a pulse? Has anyone posted science about the topic?
If you have just 3 main meals per day as laid out above, how much protein will you be eating per meal? The size of the protein meal (the amount of protein) lengthens the amount of time plasma amino acid concentration is elevated. This would mean you’d have to space the meals out even farther/further apart. Is it possible to space them appropriately so that you can effectively pulse?
Well there’s a fourth meal (pre-bed). Also, you’re getting quite a bit of protein from pulses and workout nutrition so, if this methodology is as effective as thought, I’d think that 1g/pound of body weight split up over the four meals would be good. Although there’s no science to back up that claim, but the idea of pulsing is to increase the efficacy with which you use protein for protein synthesis. I think I’m going to try the above stated plan, and have meals of about 40-50g of protein.
DH posted some science that I included in my first post about plasma aminos being elevated for about 6 hours after a meal, and so it seems that by waiting for the full 6 hours, aminos would be very close to baseline, and thus the pulse and meal would be very effective at stimulating PS.
[/quote]
Six hours seems like quite a while between meals. I think hunger would be overwhelming for me at least. What are the thoughts on this dilemma?
I think CT’s practice of eating when hungry would be more practical. Though it may not be completely “optimal” as blood aminos may not have completely returned to baseline, my understanding is that there only has to be a significant drop in blood aminos, then a spike to create hyperaminoacidemia, and thus a more anabolic environment. This would be the “piggyback” effect. So meals could be every four hours, which seems more reasonable.
[quote]GusBus07 wrote:
BlakedaMan wrote:
BulletproofTiger wrote:
I see where you’re going BlakedaMan.
What is the recommended time between a meal and a pulse? Has anyone posted science about the topic?
If you have just 3 main meals per day as laid out above, how much protein will you be eating per meal? The size of the protein meal (the amount of protein) lengthens the amount of time plasma amino acid concentration is elevated. This would mean you’d have to space the meals out even farther/further apart. Is it possible to space them appropriately so that you can effectively pulse?
Well there’s a fourth meal (pre-bed). Also, you’re getting quite a bit of protein from pulses and workout nutrition so, if this methodology is as effective as thought, I’d think that 1g/pound of body weight split up over the four meals would be good. Although there’s no science to back up that claim, but the idea of pulsing is to increase the efficacy with which you use protein for protein synthesis. I think I’m going to try the above stated plan, and have meals of about 40-50g of protein.
DH posted some science that I included in my first post about plasma aminos being elevated for about 6 hours after a meal, and so it seems that by waiting for the full 6 hours, aminos would be very close to baseline, and thus the pulse and meal would be very effective at stimulating PS.
Six hours seems like quite a while between meals. I think hunger would be overwhelming for me at least. What are the thoughts on this dilemma?
I think CT’s practice of eating when hungry would be more practical. Though it may not be completely “optimal” as blood aminos may not have completely returned to baseline, my understanding is that there only has to be a significant drop in blood aminos, then a spike to create hyperaminoacidemia, and thus a more anabolic environment. This would be the “piggyback” effect. So meals could be every four hours, which seems more reasonable.[/quote]
Yeah I realize that but I mentioned that you’d be eating low protein foods between these meals. So that way, you could be optimal with your protein timing and still be able to eat frequently enough to keep hunger at bay.
CT,
i just got some CH(90 servings of 9 grams) and i wont be able to get more for a while so i wanted to use it a little sparingly. would it be more beneficial to only use it for pulses(12 grams) or sip (20 grams) during the workout? thank you.
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
CT,
i just got some CH(90 servings of 9 grams) and i wont be able to get more for a while so i wanted to use it a little sparingly. would it be more beneficial to only use it for pulses(12 grams) or sip (20 grams) during the workout? thank you.[/quote]
The best use if you can only do one would be during the workout, with 5g of leucine if possible.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
MAF14 wrote:
CT,
i just got some CH(90 servings of 9 grams) and i wont be able to get more for a while so i wanted to use it a little sparingly. would it be more beneficial to only use it for pulses(12 grams) or sip (20 grams) during the workout? thank you.
The best use if you can only do one would be during the workout, with 5g of leucine if possible.[/quote]
thank you. i cant seem to find any l-leucine around here…
would it be ok to get the 5 grams leucine through 10 grams BCAA’s?
also, would taking some whey (24 grams - isolates) prior to the workout be
counter productive (by slowing CH absorption)?
as well, i’d like to take 5 grams creatine 15 minutes before and after (if that’s ok).
if not how far prior to the work out should it be taken?
thanks again.
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
MAF14 wrote:
CT,
i just got some CH(90 servings of 9 grams) and i wont be able to get more for a while so i wanted to use it a little sparingly. would it be more beneficial to only use it for pulses(12 grams) or sip (20 grams) during the workout? thank you.
The best use if you can only do one would be during the workout, with 5g of leucine if possible.
thank you. i cant seem to find any l-leucine around here…
would it be ok to get the 5 grams leucine through 10 grams BCAA’s?
also, would taking some whey (24 grams - isolates) prior to the workout be
counter productive (by slowing CH absorption)?
if not how far prior to the work out should it be taken?
thanks again.[/quote]
Biotest sells L-Leucine…
[quote]GusBus07 wrote:
MAF14 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
MAF14 wrote:
CT,
i just got some CH(90 servings of 9 grams) and i wont be able to get more for a while so i wanted to use it a little sparingly. would it be more beneficial to only use it for pulses(12 grams) or sip (20 grams) during the workout? thank you.
The best use if you can only do one would be during the workout, with 5g of leucine if possible.
thank you. i cant seem to find any l-leucine around here…
would it be ok to get the 5 grams leucine through 10 grams BCAA’s?
also, would taking some whey (24 grams - isolates) prior to the workout be
counter productive (by slowing CH absorption)?
if not how far prior to the work out should it be taken?
thanks again.
Biotest sells L-Leucine…[/quote]
i know… that’s not an option for me though
So even though the official protocol has not been released, who here has been experimenting with this pulsing theory, and what are your results? It all sounds very interesting in reading all 16 pages here but let’s hear some feedback.
Hey coach,
Iv been stuck at a certain size for a while now and cant seem to get any bigger but I dont seem to want to eat anything after my workout?