[quote]BantamRunner wrote:
My guess would be a difference between osmolarity and molecular weight between FFAA and CHY. Just because you have broken down a protein into aminos doesn’t mean it is absorbed quicker. It just means it is basically pre-digested. Just a guess.[/quote]
FFAA’s are not pre-digested.
[quote]skohcl wrote:
BantamRunner wrote:
My guess would be a difference between osmolarity and molecular weight between FFAA and CHY. Just because you have broken down a protein into aminos doesn’t mean it is absorbed quicker. It just means it is basically pre-digested. Just a guess.
FFAA’s are not pre-digested.[/quote]
How do you figure this?
“Free Form” indicates they are not bonded (peptide bonded) to another amino acid. Thus, they are pure, single amino acids which are ready to be absorbed and require no futher digestion/bond breaking.
From what I understand, there is some sort of speed difference between free form amino acids and certain peptides, supposedly with di and tri peptides (2 and 3 amino acids bonded together) being absorbed very rapidly because of certain intestinal transporters. So the greater the proportion of di and tri peptides the faster the absorption.
I don’t know how, or why, but supposedly these di and tri peptidex are faster than the free form aminos - I vaguely remember something about transporters for specific peptides but can’t remember the details.
[quote]NewDamage wrote:
skohcl wrote:
BantamRunner wrote:
My guess would be a difference between osmolarity and molecular weight between FFAA and CHY. Just because you have broken down a protein into aminos doesn’t mean it is absorbed quicker. It just means it is basically pre-digested. Just a guess.
FFAA’s are not pre-digested.
How do you figure this?
“Free Form” indicates they are not bonded (peptide bonded) to another amino acid. Thus, they are pure, single amino acids which are ready to be absorbed and require no futher digestion/bond breaking.
From what I understand, there is some sort of speed difference between free form amino acids and certain peptides, supposedly with di and tri peptides (2 and 3 amino acids bonded together) being absorbed very rapidly because of certain intestinal transporters. So the greater the proportion of di and tri peptides the faster the absorption.
I don’t know how, or why, but supposedly these di and tri peptidex are faster than the free form aminos - I vaguely remember something about transporters for specific peptides but can’t remember the details.[/quote]
Hm. You are correct, but I still don’t like calling them pre-digested 
I think the benefit of the hydrolysates, especially the Casein, is that they contain ALL the amino’s and in the proper quantities, otherwise you’d have to buy all the amino acids that you need to create a complete protein and mix them up in the proper amounts and I think that might cost a bit… CT might have mentioned something about this earlier.
And yah, studies have shown the di and tri-peptides were preferred to be absorbed and faster than free-form amino acids, this might be because a chain of 2 or 3 peptides are being absorbed at once instead of just one? Just a thought.
I’ll search the thread, but I seem to recall CT wrote that the problem with BCAA is that the spike is too short lived. That is why I asked about BCAA drinks (who must not be named ;-)), which can be sipped all along the workout. Reason I’m asking is that I have them already…
Hello,
I have read on one study that peptides were absorbed faster than FFAA because the transporters being used for peptides are different than those for FFAA. Somewhere else, I’ve read that there were 10 times more peptides transporters than FFAAs transporters.
Of course those informaton should be checked, but that would explain why CH is faster than FFAA.
Regards,
Guillaume.
[quote]guillaume76 wrote:
Hello,
I have read on one study that peptides were absorbed faster than FFAA because the transporters being used for peptides are different than those for FFAA. Somewhere else, I’ve read that there were 10 times more peptides transporters than FFAAs transporters.
Of course those informaton should be checked, but that would explain why CH is faster than FFAA.
Regards,
Guillaume.[/quote]
Cool, thanks for sharing that bit of info.
[quote]skohcl wrote:
Davinci.v2 wrote:
jk270 wrote:
Davinci.v2 wrote:
skohcl wrote:
xilinx wrote:
Thanks; just wanted to be sure, since it seemed a large amount.
What are your thoughts about using BCAA drinks + some carb during workout? or is CH that much faster absorbing still?
CH >>>>>> BCAAs by like alot.
…and what about free form amino acids? 
Yes CH is also quicker than FFAA, CT has stated this somewhere in these threads and someone else explained the science as well.
I’m not sure how that’s possible due to the fact that the amino acids themselves is what the CH eventually derives for utilization…if someone can prove me wrong then feel free.
FFAA have to be digested. CH is pre-digested and absorbed in the small intestine. So just accept that CH is the shizzle.
Edit: Ok so FFAA don’t have to be digested… but CH does get absorbed faster still, and is a more complete protein unless you have all the FFAA’s in their proper quantities. So sorry for the mis-info there.[/quote]
In a nutshell:
Actually, there are (at least) two diffrent mechanisms of amino acid absorption.
Firstly, there are actual amino acid transporters, which shuttle free form aminos into the blood stream. Protein digestion means breaking the long chains of amino acids into smaller pieces, i.e. single aa, di- and tri-peptides (which is hydrolization in vivo!). Every piece longer than that will pass the small intestine unabsorbed and will be metabolised further down the gastrointestinal tract by bacteria (which produces nice little molecules that make your farts stink…).
There are also peptite-tansporters in the mucosa of the small intestine. That is the second pathway of amino acid absorbtion (in peptide form).
So, if you measure, e.g., labeled glycine in the bloodstream after drinking a solution of free form glycine, you can measure a concentration of X after a given time.
If you drink a solution of di-peptides glycine-glycine, you’ll measure another concentration after the same time.
Now you can combine the two and consume both the free form and the di-peptide at the same time. The concentration you’ll measure after the same time as in the two experiments above will be higher than in both of the previous set-ups.
Probably, the “proteins” which lead to the highest amino acid concentrations in the blood after the shortest possible time are pre-digested (i.e. partially hydrolized) proteins. These contain free form amino acids, di- as well as tri-peptides.
Why phCY (partially hydrolized Casein) is “faster” than say phWy (partially hydrolized Whey) is not entirely clear.
Probalby, some di- and tri-peptides are absorbed faster into the blood stream than others. Some combinations of amino acids in di- and tri-peptides may not be absorbed at all (with 20 amino acids, there are 400 diffrent di-peptides). Not all combinations have been used in studies.
Maybe phCY contains a favorable combination of peptides (good aa-combinations that can be shuttled). Further studies on the exact profile of phCY are necessary to answer this question.
Make no mistake, COMPLETELY predigested casein (i.e. all amino acids are available in free form) does not lead to faster absorption (in terms of concentration of labeled amino acids in the blood stream than an amino acid solution with the same profile.
Fascinating! it seems that the fastest absorption occurs at the “almost completely broken down” state, since then it takes a different, slower path. This is sort of the “speed of light” for protein absorption in the bloodstream.
Seeing actual discussion and not flaming makes me happy. Thanks for the read guys.
What are the best times to pulse if one always works out first thing in the morning so day starts with peri-workout protocol?
[quote]Shamandalie wrote:
What are the best times to pulse if one always works out first thing in the morning so day starts with peri-workout protocol?[/quote]
Mine does. Personally I wake up at 5am, eat 1 finibar. 6am I have 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel, 6:15am 2 scoops Surge Recovery, 6:30am I lift and sip on 2 scoops of casein hydrolysate, then I pulse again 1.5 hours after my workout has ended…usually with 2 scoops whey isolate with 5 grams leucine and a Finibar to fill me up.
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
Shamandalie wrote:
What are the best times to pulse if one always works out first thing in the morning so day starts with peri-workout protocol?
Mine does. Personally I wake up at 5am, eat 1 finibar. 6am I have 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel, 6:15am 2 scoops Surge Recovery, 6:30am I lift and sip on 2 scoops of casein hydrolysate, then I pulse again 1.5 hours after my workout has ended…usually with 2 scoops whey isolate with 5 grams leucine and a Finibar to fill me up.[/quote]
Why arent u pulsing with casein hydro?
[quote]zraw wrote:
Davinci.v2 wrote:
Shamandalie wrote:
What are the best times to pulse if one always works out first thing in the morning so day starts with peri-workout protocol?
Mine does. Personally I wake up at 5am, eat 1 finibar. 6am I have 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel, 6:15am 2 scoops Surge Recovery, 6:30am I lift and sip on 2 scoops of casein hydrolysate, then I pulse again 1.5 hours after my workout has ended…usually with 2 scoops whey isolate with 5 grams leucine and a Finibar to fill me up.
Why arent u pulsing with casein hydro? [/quote]
I have too much leucine and whey isolate (always buy in 15 pound bulk) left over to not finish it off.
Evening Fella’s. All very interesting stuff regarding the pulsing, but can someone direct me towards any research or articles detailing the scientific theory behind it all? I’ve trawled through the site but I’m struggling to find it.
Cheers,
Josh
Coach,
Does the Amino pulsing setup change in anyway when one is chemicaly assisted? What about with HGH?
Im still at a loss with structure of this eating style. Will this be layed out with Ibodybuilding or is that just going to be a workout and no diet included?
thanks for all this great info… has my mind racing!
[quote]caladin wrote:
Coach,
Does the Amino pulsing setup change in anyway when one is chemicaly assisted? What about with HGH?
Im still at a loss with structure of this eating style. Will this be layed out with Ibodybuilding or is that just going to be a workout and no diet included?
thanks for all this great info… has my mind racing![/quote]
I do not answer questions related to anabolic drug use. BUT, yes, it would work the same but the magnitude of the anabolic response would obviously be greater.
Yes, pulsing will be explained in depth in the near future
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
zraw wrote:
Davinci.v2 wrote:
Shamandalie wrote:
What are the best times to pulse if one always works out first thing in the morning so day starts with peri-workout protocol?
Mine does. Personally I wake up at 5am, eat 1 finibar. 6am I have 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel, 6:15am 2 scoops Surge Recovery, 6:30am I lift and sip on 2 scoops of casein hydrolysate, then I pulse again 1.5 hours after my workout has ended…usually with 2 scoops whey isolate with 5 grams leucine and a Finibar to fill me up.
Why arent u pulsing with casein hydro?
I have too much leucine and whey isolate (always buy in 15 pound bulk) left over to not finish it off.
[/quote]
Yeah, but it wont work…
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Davinci.v2 wrote:
zraw wrote:
Davinci.v2 wrote:
Shamandalie wrote:
What are the best times to pulse if one always works out first thing in the morning so day starts with peri-workout protocol?
Mine does. Personally I wake up at 5am, eat 1 finibar. 6am I have 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel, 6:15am 2 scoops Surge Recovery, 6:30am I lift and sip on 2 scoops of casein hydrolysate, then I pulse again 1.5 hours after my workout has ended…usually with 2 scoops whey isolate with 5 grams leucine and a Finibar to fill me up.
Why arent u pulsing with casein hydro?
I have too much leucine and whey isolate (always buy in 15 pound bulk) left over to not finish it off.
Yeah, but it wont work…
[/quote]
“I wake up at 5am, eat 1 FINiBAR. 6am I have 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel, 6:15am 2 scoops Surge Recovery, 6:30am I lift and sip on 2 scoops of casein hydrolysate, then I pulse again 1.5 hours after my workout has ended…usually with 2 scoops whey isolate with 5 grams leucine and a FINiBAR to fill me up.”
Can you elaborate as to which part of the above protocol I put in quotes needs improvement? Are you referring to the pulse using whey isolate in that you feel it (whey isolate) is too slow to utilize a pulse with?
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Davinci.v2 wrote:
zraw wrote:
Davinci.v2 wrote:
Shamandalie wrote:
What are the best times to pulse if one always works out first thing in the morning so day starts with peri-workout protocol?
Mine does. Personally I wake up at 5am, eat 1 finibar. 6am I have 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel, 6:15am 2 scoops Surge Recovery, 6:30am I lift and sip on 2 scoops of casein hydrolysate, then I pulse again 1.5 hours after my workout has ended…usually with 2 scoops whey isolate with 5 grams leucine and a Finibar to fill me up.
Why arent u pulsing with casein hydro?
I have too much leucine and whey isolate (always buy in 15 pound bulk) left over to not finish it off.
Yeah, but it wont work…
“I wake up at 5am, eat 1 FINiBAR. 6am I have 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel, 6:15am 2 scoops Surge Recovery, 6:30am I lift and sip on 2 scoops of casein hydrolysate, then I pulse again 1.5 hours after my workout has ended…usually with 2 scoops whey isolate with 5 grams leucine and a FINiBAR to fill me up.”
Can you elaborate as to which part of the above protocol I put in quotes needs improvement? Are you referring to the pulse using whey isolate in that you feel it (whey isolate) is too slow to utilize a pulse with?
[/quote]
he is referring to the pulsing with the whey isolate
Thanks