Questions About Peri-Workout Nutrition

Training
61

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
BlakedaMan wrote:
CT,
Assuming we followed this program to the T, how much of an improvement in gains in strength, mass, and recovery do you expect we would experience, coming from using only SWF pre/during workout and Recovery PWO? Obviously this is a hypothetical question, and a rather hard one to answer since it’ll vary from person to person, but what kind of improvements can we reasonably expect? I ask only because, as others have pointed out, this is a pretty expensive program, but I completely agree with you on how you like to optimize progress, and for me it would be worth the cost if it would make a significant difference.

As a side note, just to give you some context, I would label myself an “intermediate” lifter, since I’ve gained almost 70 pounds of muscle since I started, but that only puts me at around 200 pounds, so I feel like I’m not even close to finishing filling out my 6’ 3" frame :slight_smile:

Thanks so much!
BT

It would obviously depend on the program you are on. The para-workout protocols we’re using right now are actually tailor-made for the new training approach that Tim Patterson and I have been building for the past 3 months or so.

I can give you some results from my last phase of training (last 3 weeks) which is when everything fell into place (we nailed the para-workout protocol timing).

My top half seated shoulder press went from 395 for 3 to 455 for 3
My full seated shoulder press went from 295lbs for 1 to 365 for 1
My bench pressed went from 375 (although my previous best had been 425) to 440 with a thick bar
On the floor press I went from 325 for 3 reps to 375 for 2 reps
On the lateral raise machine (yeah yeah yeah) I went from using the stack for 3 reps to the stack plus 90lbs for 3 reps

My partner had similar, but scaled results since he started from a lower point.

This 3 weeks phase was a shoulders spec phase BTW.[/quote]

Amazing results. That shoulder press is one hell of a lift by the way!
When abouts may we expect aforementioned superprogram to be released to us lay people?

On a side note, right now I’m doing 2-a-days per your suggestions in your 4 part series, and was wondering how I might switch up the para-WO nutrition for it? Right now my AM WO is about 35 mins, my PM about 25, but I’ll be working my way up to about double both those sessions over the next 12 weeks.

Thanks again.

62

thanks for the quick reply thibs, always great to have someone like you put in the time for us guys. cheers mate.

63

I’d like a caloric reality check:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
PROTOCOL 1 (1-3 times per week, when working on a weak area)
Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
W - 15 = 2 scoops Surge Recovery
During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
W + 15 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
W + 90 minutes = Grow! Whey 2 scoops[/quote]

Here’s what my math gets if I have it right:

W-40 = 9F, 39C, 12P, 250cal
W-30 = 0F, 41C, 0P, 170cal
W-15 = 2F, 30C, 8P, 225cal
Early = 9F, 39C, 12P, 250cal
Late = 0F, 20C, 0P, 85cal
W+15 = 5F, 0C, 44P, 240cal
W+90 = 5F, 0C, 44P, 240cal

Total = 30F, 169C, 120P, 1480cal

Should this be seriously considered if one is cutting or trying to maintain weight? If so, what the heck should one eat the rest of the day? We’ve only covered about 3.5 hours peri-workout.

64

Coach,

What kind of information can you provide that will link hot flashes in men with any nutritonal/body abnormality?

Thanks. Remember, this is a 21 year old your talking to.

65

Hello Coach,

I’m very excited to try out this new protocol for my wieght training session starting today. I was wondering if I could use/or somehow alter this protocol for two MMA type workouts on non wieght training days. Again, thanks for your input.

66

[quote]EasyRhino wrote:
I’d like a caloric reality check:

Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
PROTOCOL 1 (1-3 times per week, when working on a weak area)
Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
W - 15 = 2 scoops Surge Recovery
During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
W + 15 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
W + 90 minutes = Grow! Whey 2 scoops

Here’s what my math gets if I have it right:

W-40 = 9F, 39C, 12P, 250cal
W-30 = 0F, 41C, 0P, 170cal
W-15 = 2F, 30C, 8P, 225cal
Early = 9F, 39C, 12P, 250cal
Late = 0F, 20C, 0P, 85cal
W+15 = 5F, 0C, 44P, 240cal
W+90 = 5F, 0C, 44P, 240cal

Total = 30F, 169C, 120P, 1480cal

Should this be seriously considered if one is cutting or trying to maintain weight? If so, what the heck should one eat the rest of the day? We’ve only covered about 3.5 hours peri-workout.

[/quote]

This is a MUSCLE GROWTH protocol. The one you just mentioned is actually the extreme version. I also mentioned that it should be used 1-3 times a week. It can actually be used during a fat loss phase, but only once a week on your refeed/reload day.

67

[quote]BlakedaMan wrote:
Amazing results. That shoulder press is one hell of a lift by the way!
When abouts may we expect aforementioned superprogram to be released to us lay people?

On a side note, right now I’m doing 2-a-days per your suggestions in your 4 part series, and was wondering how I might switch up the para-WO nutrition for it? Right now my AM WO is about 35 mins, my PM about 25, but I’ll be working my way up to about double both those sessions over the next 12 weeks.

Thanks again.

[/quote]

I’m not 100% sure. The first program (we will actually build dozens of programs based on the foundational principles we developed) is ready to go, but I think we will film it in its entirety before releasing a readable version.

68

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
JamesBrawn007 wrote:

(a) Would I still get decent para-workout nutrition by using whey hydrosylate and leucine without any simple carbs?

Decent? Yes. Optimal? No. You are missing out on a lot of cool stuff that it’s the workout fuel.

You could use one scoop of WORKOUT FUEL pre-workout, WH and leucine during workout and post-workout and get very good results.

1 scoop of WORKOUT FUEL has 21g of carbs, not enough to throw off a low-carbs diet if everything else is tight. And the benefits would far outweight the cost anyway.

JamesBrawn007 wrote:
(b) I currently use BCAAs as meal replacements. Would WH and leucine be better for this purpose in terms of pulsing?

Yep, no question there. For optimal results, take the leucine 5-10 minutes before the whey.[/quote]

Hi Coach

At the risk of being a real pest, given Workout Fuel is hard to source here and is prohibitively expensive, would an acceptable poor man’s version be 20g of glucose 30 mins pre-workout while on the CKD plan described?

Many thanks again for your time.

JB

69

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

However I heard that the price of FINIBARS will be drastically slashed soon. It should be pretty close to what the MD bars are sold for.[/quote]

This is actually painful for me to hear. I have jutified not buying them because of the price, even though the real reason is because my daughter has sever nut allergies and I don’t keep any foods with nuts in our house.

Tim, if you are out there, please make a nut free version of Finibars. The whole “produced in a facility that also uses blah,blah” is fine, just no nut ingredients. Please, please

70

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
At the risk of being a real pest, given Workout Fuel is hard to source here and is prohibitively expensive, would an acceptable poor man’s version be 20g of glucose 30 mins pre-workout while on the CKD plan described?

Many thanks again for your time.

JB[/quote]

No. The thing is that WORKOUT FUEL is way more than carbs. If anything, carbs are the least important ingredients in there. It has fast-acting beta-alanine, leucine, citruline malate and various pro-hydration ingredients. The whole purpose of WORKOUT FUEL is to drive as much water and nutrients into the muscle as possible.

71

The protocol is like the magic mushroom in Mario Bros. : It drastically increases your capacities, strength and resistance. Can you complete the game without it? Yes, but its gonna take longer and will be much harder.[/quote]

Awesome analogy!

72

Thibs,

For someone who works out first thing in the morning is anything different on the workout nutrition protocol. My plan is this, (note: I will fall back asleep between the first 3 steps…)

4:30 - 2 Alpha-GPC
4:50 - 1/2 Finibar
5:00 - 1 Scoop Surge Workout Fuel
5:15 - 2 Scoops Surge Recovery
During Workout (early half) - 1/2 Finibar
During Workout (later half) - 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
7:00 - 2 scoops Grow!
8:30 - 2 scoops Grow!

I’ve always used my Para-workout as my breakfast. If I want to incorporate Protein Pulsing into a diet and I eat 6 times a day would the following fit appropriately?

Meal 1 - Para Workout Protocol
Mid A.M - 5g Leucine 1 scoop Grow!
Lunch - Meat and Green Veggies + Fruit
Mid P.M - 5g Leucine 1 scoop Grow!
Dinner - Meat and Green Veggies
Pre Bed - 5g Leucine 2 scoop Low Carb Metabolic Drive + Peanut Butter

That means on a workout day I don’t eat my first solid meal till Lunch. I’m currently 199lbs, 6’1", and 8.5% bodyfat. Looking to gain another 10lbs of muscle and then diet down to 6% bodyfat.

Thanks,

Greg

73

Coach

Without SWF, can we include Pedyalite, glicerol, beta alanine, citruline, even Quadricarbs?
(customs affair, regarding Biotest)

Thanks

74

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
EasyRhino wrote:
I’d like a caloric reality check:

Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
PROTOCOL 1 (1-3 times per week, when working on a weak area)
Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
W - 15 = 2 scoops Surge Recovery
During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
W + 15 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
W + 90 minutes = Grow! Whey 2 scoops

Here’s what my math gets if I have it right:

W-40 = 9F, 39C, 12P, 250cal
W-30 = 0F, 41C, 0P, 170cal
W-15 = 2F, 30C, 8P, 225cal
Early = 9F, 39C, 12P, 250cal
Late = 0F, 20C, 0P, 85cal
W+15 = 5F, 0C, 44P, 240cal
W+90 = 5F, 0C, 44P, 240cal

Total = 30F, 169C, 120P, 1480cal

Should this be seriously considered if one is cutting or trying to maintain weight? If so, what the heck should one eat the rest of the day? We’ve only covered about 3.5 hours peri-workout.

This is a MUSCLE GROWTH protocol. The one you just mentioned is actually the extreme version. I also mentioned that it should be used 1-3 times a week. It can actually be used during a fat loss phase, but only once a week on your refeed/reload day.[/quote]

Coach Thibaudeau -

For women, do the quantities change at all for the para-workout procedure? Would it be roughly half?

Thanks.

75

Hi,

Have been reading the forum and trying to get my head around the para - workout nutrition. Is there an article explaining it or anything else?

Thanks

76

[quote]michell wrote:
Coach

Without SWF, can we include Pedyalite, glicerol, beta alanine, citruline, even Quadricarbs?
(customs affair, regarding Biotest)

Thanks[/quote]

Wouldn’t be a bad mix at all.

77

CT- Could Gatorade be used to add more carbs to the para work-out. If so, where? Add some to Surge Workout Fuel, or maybe with Surge Recovery?

78

CT,

Any problems taking Rez-V with Leucine first thing in the AM? Does that still count as empty stomach?

Thanks.

79

Coach

I had a scoop of Surge Recovery pre, and another scoop during, my workout today. I felt like throwing up the entire workout. Plus, I had this sticky feeling that made me very thirsty; I always get it after drinking Surge Recovery. Is there any way to still get the benefits of taking it before/during the workout, while not feeling bloated because of the large amount of water&carbs ingested?

I’ve been reading up on PeptoPro, and it looks like it doesn’t have that consistency that could make you thirsty. What do you think, should I give it a shot during workouts while waiting for Anaconda to come out? Would it then be acceptable to have Surge Recovery PWO?

Finally… When doing HIIT, what’re your current thoughts regarding workout nutrition?

Greatly appreciate all your input, coach

G

80

Hi Chris,

Marko will be doing your protocol, also I had him on your shoulder workout (3x a week)
Should he use Protocol 2 (priority workouts) 3 times a week?

Also should I be trying Anaconda if I don’t want to get any bigger?