Questions About Peri-Workout Nutrition

Training
461

[quote]redfoxaut wrote:
Thib, in most of pre workout products,coffein is a part of it.
how often a week you would recommend to use a “coffein product”.
I think if it is used to often, you do not have the same effect anymore (adaption)

Thanks![/quote]

Most people know that I’m not a big fan of stimulants that play with catecholamines. Caffeine, while not as bad as some other stimulants, can have detrimental effects if abused. I personally never drink coffee or have caffeine . No need to be as drastic as I am, but certainly avoid becoming caffeine-dependant.

462

[quote]psycorpse wrote:
would this protocol be ok for early morning workouts? what i mean is, is it ok to start the para-workout supp loading before any meals are consumed for the day?[/quote]

Yes it is. At first it might be hard on the stomach, but you’ll get used to it.

463

Hello,

What are your opinions on using a waxy maize starch combined with amino’s before and during the beginning of the workout?

I know this protocol has specific guidelines, but what I take away is that it is much more beneficial to spike insulin levels going into the gym instead of coming out, like most people have been doing for years. I’m wondering what the results might turn out like, just taking a typical PWO waxy maize/bcaa/leucine/creatine combo, and having it before the workout, and following up with the typical whey shake.

464

[quote]ironshaolin wrote:
Hello,

What are your opinions on using a waxy maize starch combined with amino’s before and during the beginning of the workout?

I know this protocol has specific guidelines, but what I take away is that it is much more beneficial to spike insulin levels going into the gym instead of coming out, like most people have been doing for years. I’m wondering what the results might turn out like, just taking a typical PWO waxy maize/bcaa/leucine/creatine combo, and having it before the workout, and following up with the typical whey shake. [/quote]

Spiking insulin is just half the battle. You need nutrients to take advantage of the combination of elevated insulin (from the pre-workout) AND non-insulin mediated nutrients uptake (from the muscle contraction during the workout).

The insulin spike opens the door to let the nutrients enter the various stores; the muscle contraction pulls in the nutrients.

So during the workout is THE ONLY TIME WHEN YOU CAN DECIDE WHERE YOU ARE SENDING NUTRIENTS.

This is why it’s important to provide as much nutrients to the body as possible.

The thing is that you need the proper nutrients for it to work, and you need to provide it to the body DURING the workout.

An regular whey wont do because it takes too long to be absorbed, so you end up missing the during-workout boat.

Casein hydrolysate is the only protein fast enough to do the job.

465

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

Casein hydrolysate is the only protein fast enough to do the job.[/quote]

Hi Coach

Is the jury still out on whey hydrosylate and leucine for this purpose? I ask because I can’t source CH (or obviously Anaconda) at the moment, so I’m using WH and leucine during workout with Workout Fuel, and Surge, used pre-workout as per protocol.
Many thanks in advance for your time.

JB

466

What is the difference between casein hydrolysate and Hydrolyzed Casein, or are they the same things?

So, the insulin spike opens the door for nutrients to be shuttled in, then you need a super fast absorbing protein, such as casein hydrolysate in order to get the flush of nutrients as fast as possible.

So does that mean that taking the typical PWO shake pre-workout would offer no additional benefit, because without the super fast absorbing proteins you won’t be able to take full advantage of that anabolic window?

What I’m trying to conclude, is without the addition of new supplements, if there would be an increased anabolic response simply by switching your fast carbs/fast protein to pre-workout, or if it makes no difference unless using stated proteins.

Coach, as always your time and answers are greatly appreciated.

467

[quote]skohcl wrote:
Try cutting it down to 1 scoop Surge pre, and 1 during. Then work your way up to 2, if that’s still a problem, cut it in half. I’m fairly certain it’s not the workout fuel though.[/quote]

Thanks for the idea. No it’s definetly not the Workout Fuel because like I said, I was doing that by itself before workouts and felt great. It’s when I drink the Recovery 15 minutes after the Workout Fuel (per protocol) that I get kind of a dizzy nautious feeling during my workout.

468

What is the difference between casein hydrolysate and Hydrolyzed Casein, or are they the same things?

So, the insulin spike opens the door for nutrients to be shuttled in, then you need a super fast absorbing protein, such as casein hydrolysate in order to get the flush of nutrients as fast as possible.

So does that mean that taking the typical PWO shake pre-workout would offer no additional benefit, because without the super fast absorbing proteins you won’t be able to take full advantage of that anabolic window?

What I’m trying to conclude, is without the addition of new supplements, if there would be an increased anabolic response simply by switching your fast carbs/fast protein to pre-workout, or if it makes no difference unless using stated proteins.

Coach, as always your time and answers are greatly appreciated.

I’ve been wondering the same thing…it seems to me that BCAA’s would do the same thing as the casein hydro, no? I’m getting some waxy maize, bcaa, creatine, and gonna try that pre and during workouts…

469

CT, in terms of leptin response does it only matter the net carbs you eat or does it matter how quickly you eat them?

So on my higher carb days would it be better to just have a really big breakfast with like an extra 50g. of carbs all in 1 meal vs. just having more carbs spread out throughout the day in 1-3 meals (so say add 20g. to each of my first 3 meals)

470

[quote]the pale writer wrote:

I’ve been wondering the same thing…it seems to me that BCAA’s would do the same thing as the casein hydro, no? I’m getting some waxy maize, bcaa, creatine, and gonna try that pre and during workouts…[/quote]

Casein hydrolysate provides the full spectrum of amino acids, not just the branched-chain variety. We’re not just trying to turn on protein synthesis, which leucine alone can apparently do, but rather flood the bloodstream with amino acids to create a state of hyperaminoacidemia. This is the essence of pulsing.

471

what would be a good alternative to a FINiBAR when allergic to nuts, peanuts in particular?
Thanks

472

I went through the whole thread, right from the beginning, in the proccess of which I decided to purchase some Surge Workout Fuel and Surge Recovery…[you cannot find FINiBARs in the UK as far as I am aware anyway. I know it came up already but I would like to quality check with you Coach:

W -2 hrs: solid meal
W -40 mins: 1 scoop of Surge Workout Fuel
W -30 mins: 2 scoops of Surgfe Workout Fuel
W -15 mins:2 scoops of Surge Recovery + 3 gms creatine
DURING: 20 gms of Hydro Whey
W + 60mins: 20 gms of Hydro Whey + 3 gms creatine+ 5 gms leucine [?]
W+ 90 mins: solid meal [with relatively high fat content, e.g. rump steak and not chicken breast]

I really appreciate any coments Coach.

473

One of the things that bugs me is I gain muscle fairly easily but my CNS recovery sucks so I often need to take breaks. Other than taking Power Drive post workout and considering that the I Bodybuilder program to follow is very CNS demanding. What can I do to improve CNS recovery?

474

[quote]HD8 wrote:
One of the things that bugs me is I gain muscle fairly easily but my CNS recovery sucks so I often need to take breaks. Other than taking Power Drive post workout and considering that the I Bodybuilder program to follow is very CNS demanding. What can I do to improve CNS recovery?[/quote]

Do somesort of recovery techniques. i.e., contrast showers, meditation, adequate and uninterrupted sleep (try ZMA), proper nutrition, deep breathing, and make sure you plan deloading weeks in your training program. Personally I use classical music and walking my dog.

475

[quote]wfifer wrote:
the pale writer wrote:

I’ve been wondering the same thing…it seems to me that BCAA’s would do the same thing as the casein hydro, no? I’m getting some waxy maize, bcaa, creatine, and gonna try that pre and during workouts…

Casein hydrolysate provides the full spectrum of amino acids, not just the branched-chain variety. We’re not just trying to turn on protein synthesis, which leucine alone can apparently do, but rather flood the bloodstream with amino acids to create a state of hyperaminoacidemia. This is the essence of pulsing.
[/quote]

ohh…i gotcha…thanks…so EAA would be the ticket…I’ve been trying to figure out a way to follow this protocol as similiarly and inexpensive as possible but I’m just gonna say screw it and buy a few tubs of Workout Fuel and Recovery and save up for the Andaconda as well…

476

[quote]wfifer wrote:
the pale writer wrote:

I’ve been wondering the same thing…it seems to me that BCAA’s would do the same thing as the casein hydro, no? I’m getting some waxy maize, bcaa, creatine, and gonna try that pre and during workouts…

Casein hydrolysate provides the full spectrum of amino acids, not just the branched-chain variety. We’re not just trying to turn on protein synthesis, which leucine alone can apparently do, but rather flood the bloodstream with amino acids to create a state of hyperaminoacidemia. This is the essence of pulsing.
[/quote]

I just wanna add one other aspect of this, “Positive Nitrogen Balance” Apparently it takes very little CH to get you to a positive nitrogen balance as well.

477

I have a question regarding what to take DURING the workout if the only thing you do not have access to is Anaconda

The BEST protocol you outlined was :

-90 Alpha-GPC
-45 2 Finibars
-30 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
-15 2 scoops Surge Recovery
during the workout 2 scoops Anaconda
60 minutes after the workout 20g casein hydrolysate

At the beginning you were recommending this :

PROTOCOL 1 (1-3 times per week, when working on a weak area)
Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
W - 15 = 2 scoops Surge Recovery
During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
W + 15 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
W + 90 minutes = Grow! Whey 2 scoops

So, what would be the best thing to replace the 2 scoops of Anaconda by? Hydrolyzed Casein? Surge Workout Fuel? SR?

My understanding what that you wanted to get as many nutriments/aminos in during the workout, so would just using Hydrolyzed casein be good or should one add something else to it?

Would you maybe add Leucine to the hydrolyzed casein?

Or use both Surge Workout Fuel (1scoop) (to use all the nutriments in it) and hydrolyzed casein (20g)?

Also, any reason for switching from -60 to -90 for the Alpha-GPC?
Same question as far as using 2 FiNiBar -45mins instead of 1 pre and 1 peri

Thank you for your time

478

[quote]zraw wrote:
I have a question regarding what to take DURING the workout if the only thing you do not have access to is Anaconda

The BEST protocol you outlined was :

-90 Alpha-GPC
-45 2 Finibars
-30 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
-15 2 scoops Surge Recovery
during the workout 2 scoops Anaconda
60 minutes after the workout 20g casein hydrolysate

At the beginning you were recommending this :

PROTOCOL 1 (1-3 times per week, when working on a weak area)
Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
W - 15 = 2 scoops Surge Recovery
During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
W + 15 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
W + 90 minutes = Grow! Whey 2 scoops

So, what would be the best thing to replace the 2 scoops of Anaconda by? Hydrolyzed Casein? Surge Workout Fuel? Surge Recovery?

My understanding what that you wanted to get as many nutriments/aminos in during the workout, so would just using Hydrolyzed casein be good or should one add something else to it?

Would you maybe add Leucine to the hydrolyzed casein?

Or use both Surge Workout Fuel (1scoop) (to use all the nutriments in it) and hydrolyzed casein (20g)?

Also, any reason for switching from -60 to -90 for the Alpha-GPC?
Same question as far as using 2 FiNiBar -45mins instead of 1 pre and 1 peri

Thank you for your time[/quote]

As for the Anaconda replacement on page 18 (about 3/4 down) it was mentioned you can replace 2 scoops of Anaonda with 1 scoop recovery and 20-30g of CH. Fixed, read next post by me

479

[quote]skohcl wrote:
zraw wrote:
I have a question regarding what to take DURING the workout if the only thing you do not have access to is Anaconda

The BEST protocol you outlined was :

-90 Alpha-GPC
-45 2 Finibars
-30 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
-15 2 scoops Surge Recovery
during the workout 2 scoops Anaconda
60 minutes after the workout 20g casein hydrolysate

At the beginning you were recommending this :

PROTOCOL 1 (1-3 times per week, when working on a weak area)
Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
W - 15 = 2 scoops Surge Recovery
During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
W + 15 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
W + 90 minutes = Grow! Whey 2 scoops

So, what would be the best thing to replace the 2 scoops of Anaconda by? Hydrolyzed Casein? Surge Workout Fuel? Surge Recovery?

My understanding what that you wanted to get as many nutriments/aminos in during the workout, so would just using Hydrolyzed casein be good or should one add something else to it?

Would you maybe add Leucine to the hydrolyzed casein?

Or use both Surge Workout Fuel (1scoop) (to use all the nutriments in it) and hydrolyzed casein (20g)?

Also, any reason for switching from -60 to -90 for the Alpha-GPC?
Same question as far as using 2 FiNiBar -45mins instead of 1 pre and 1 peri

Thank you for your time

As for the anaconda replacement on page 18 (about 3/4 down) it was mentioned you can replace 2 scoops of anaonda with 1 scoop recovery and 20-30g of CH.[/quote]

I think this is the post you are refering to :

"greggio wrote:
This looks like a protocal I can actually try. The Finibars are out for me unfortunately due to food allergies. This looks good, minus the Anaconda of course. Any recommendations for the masses who don’t have access to Anaconda yet? Maybe one scoop of SR, or a different CH product.
Thanks

While there is no real substitute for ANACONDA 1 scoop of SURGE RECOVERY would indeed be a good option since whey hydrolysate is almost as fast as CH."

It is not stating that one should mix SR with CH but more that replacing anaconda with SR would be a good option

Mixing SR with CH, to my understanding, would probably not be such a great idea because mixing both would actually slow down the absorption of CH (even tought not by much).

If this is the post you were refering to, my questions remain. If it wasnt, please quote the post you are refering to, ty.

480

[quote]zraw wrote:
skohcl wrote:
zraw wrote:
I have a question regarding what to take DURING the workout if the only thing you do not have access to is Anaconda

The BEST protocol you outlined was :

-90 Alpha-GPC
-45 2 Finibars
-30 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
-15 2 scoops Surge Recovery
during the workout 2 scoops Anaconda
60 minutes after the workout 20g casein hydrolysate

At the beginning you were recommending this :

PROTOCOL 1 (1-3 times per week, when working on a weak area)
Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
W - 15 = 2 scoops Surge Recovery
During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
W + 15 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
W + 90 minutes = Grow! Whey 2 scoops

So, what would be the best thing to replace the 2 scoops of Anaconda by? Hydrolyzed Casein? Surge Workout Fuel? Surge Recovery?

My understanding what that you wanted to get as many nutriments/aminos in during the workout, so would just using Hydrolyzed casein be good or should one add something else to it?

Would you maybe add Leucine to the hydrolyzed casein?

Or use both Surge Workout Fuel (1scoop) (to use all the nutriments in it) and hydrolyzed casein (20g)?

Also, any reason for switching from -60 to -90 for the Alpha-GPC?
Same question as far as using 2 FiNiBar -45mins instead of 1 pre and 1 peri

Thank you for your time

As for the Anaconda replacement on page 18 (about 3/4 down) it was mentioned you can replace 2 scoops of Anaonda with 1 scoop Surge Recovery and 20-30g of CH.

I think this is the post you are refering to :

"greggio wrote:
This looks like a protocal I can actually try. The Finibars are out for me unfortunately due to food allergies. This looks good, minus the Anaconda of course. Any recommendations for the masses who don’t have access to Anaconda yet? Maybe one scoop of Surge Recovery, or a different CH product.
Thanks

While there is no real substitute for ANACONDA 1 scoop of SURGE RECOVERY would indeed be a good option since whey hydrolysate is almost as fast as CH."

It is not stating that one should mix Surge Recovery with CH but more that replacing anaconda with Surge Recovery would be a good option

Mixing Surge Recovery with CH, to my understanding, would probably not be such a great idea because mixing both would actually slow down the absorption of CH (even tought not by much).

If this is the post you were refering to, my questions remain. If it wasnt, please quote the post you are refering to, ty.
[/quote]

Oh yah, I guess it wasn’t on that page, lemme find it ral quick.

…

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
G87 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
BulletproofTiger wrote:
Dear Coach,

What are your thoughts on “Amino Pulsing” while on a diet?

I already answered that one earlier.

CT - or anyone else - which thread was this talked about in? I’ve looked and looked and can’t find it.

I’m sitting at about 10-11% BF after “Get Jacked Fast.” I’d like to lose a few more pounds of fat, but I don’t think I can hack the mental strain of low-carbing for more than a few weeks. I actually don’t consume any carbs outside of fruit, but I get terrible cravings for them and was going nuts in the final weeks of GJF.

Coach, do you think that restricting my carbs to 2 fruit portions a day and pre-workout (i.e. pulsing) would allow me to get to 8% BF while retaining/gaining lean mass? I can get some peptopro, pending Anaconda’s release, Finibars, basically anything that’s commercially available.

G

You can reach your goal by consuming as much as 150g of carbs per day provided that they are well timed, of the right type and that the caloric intake for the rest of the day is correct.

Here are my recommendations:

  • Start at 1.25g of protein per pound NOT including para-workout nutrition
  • Consume between 60 and 80g of fat per day
  • Set carbs at around 150g on workout days as follow:

40 min pre-workout 1 FINiBAR (39g)
30 min pre-workout SURGE WORKOUT FUEL 1 SCOOP (21g)
15 min pre-workout SURGE RECOVERY 1 SCOOP (25g)
During the workout SURGE RECOVERY 1 SCOOP (25g) + 20-30g CH

Total = 110g para-workout

Then have 2 portions of fruit with a whey shake 60 minutes after the workout.

The rest of the day is low-carbs

[/quote]

That came from the fat loss thread. In most of the protocols so far CT has suggested to just use 2 scoops of recovery during the workouts, but if you have some CH I think 1-1.5 scoops of recovery + 20-30g CH would best simulate anaconda. But we really don’t know what’s in it other than 12g of CH per “scoop/serving”

So yeah, sorry I’ve just read all these threads and figure everyone else has already done the same, it’s strange how much information for one thread can be buried in another.