Questions About Peri-Workout Nutrition

Training
441

[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
Hi Coach

Based on my readings on the forum, especially Nate Green’s prelude to the new training protocol recently, I’m sensing carb intake guidelines are moving away from the P+F versus P+C split popularly used.

I understand the para-WO guidelines regarding carb intake but am still a bit unclear at what other times of the day it would be optimal to consume them, and what type.

I consider myself a bit carb-phobic based on my endomorphic profile. I’m currently ingesting 80g para-WO, and around 20g from low GI fruits at breakfast. the rest of the time it’s P+F. Any suggestions on modifying this for lean mass gain with minimal fat gain?

Many thanks in advance for your time.

JB[/quote]

I think for leanness he mentioned consuming most carbs in the morning and around the workout, the rest of the day low/no carbs.

442

If I wake up at 7:30 am and train at 6:00 pm, when should I be protein “pulsing” throughout the day. How much and what should I be protein “pulsing” with and where do I get it? Can I do it with Grow! Whey?

I plan on doing the “para” workout protocol without Anaconda that Thibs has recomended.

443

[quote]KeepAwaySheeple wrote:
If I wake up at 7:30 am and train at 6:00 pm, when should I be protein “pulsing” throughout the day. How much and what should I be protein “pulsing” with and where do I get it? Can I do it with Grow! Whey?

I plan on doing the “para” workout protocol without Anaconda that Thibs has recomended.[/quote]

Have you tried reading the thread? It’s got some useful information in it…

Man, CT has answered the same question so many times in all of these threads it’s amazing he doesn’t have some sort of FAQ or something up yet.

444

[quote]skohcl wrote:
KeepAwaySheeple wrote:
If I wake up at 7:30 am and train at 6:00 pm, when should I be protein “pulsing” throughout the day. How much and what should I be protein “pulsing” with and where do I get it? Can I do it with Grow! Whey?

I plan on doing the “para” workout protocol without Anaconda that Thibs has recomended.

Have you tried reading the thread? It’s got some useful information in it…

Man, CT has answered the same question so many times in all of these threads it’s amazing he doesn’t have some sort of FAQ or something up yet.[/quote]

Yes I have, there are so many people doing so many different variations of “pulsing” that it’s just a cluster fuck at this point.

I have the para-workout protocol printed out for easy reference, however, I would love a schedule of protein “pulsing” layed out for the schedule I put in my last post. There are too damn many people on here doing different things.

Yes, an FAQ would be awesome, great idea.

445

[quote]KeepAwaySheeple wrote:
If I wake up at 7:30 am and train at 6:00 pm, when should I be protein “pulsing” throughout the day. How much and what should I be protein “pulsing” with and where do I get it? Can I do it with Grow! Whey?

I plan on doing the “para” workout protocol without Anaconda that Thibs has recomended.[/quote]

I’m similar to you in workout timing, i usually come home, have supper with the family and workout at 7:30. I do however plan to get Anaconda (if i can in Canada).
I may have to workout later to separate supper and the training to fit in the para-nutrition.

446

Try this and just modify the timing of the pulses to fit your schedule, mmmk? I think asking CT to do an outline for everyone’s day for whatever suppliments they happen to have on hand would be great, but I think CT can spend his time helping us by doing other things.

===============================================================

Ok, here is the general layout:

Professor Chaos wrote:
It sounds like you’re using pulsing the way folks use leucine? ie to spark anabolism before a meal?

Exactly! However CH seems to work even better since it provides you with some raw material to take advantage of the enhanced anabolic state. CH also seems to speed up metabolism.

Professor Chaos wrote:
How does this look Christian?

0630 - Pulse
0700 - Breakfast

1100 - Pulse
1130 - Lunch

1530 - Alpha-GPC
1600 - 1 FINiBAR
1630 - 2 Scoops Workout Fuel
1645 - 2 Scoops Recovery
1700 - 1800 Workout w/ Double Pulse

1900 - Pulse
1930 - Dinner

2200 - Pulse
2230 - Pre-Bed Meal

CT approved… however I would replace the later pulse with only a solid meal or a casein miscellar shake.

Professor Chaos wrote:
2 Questions:

How many grams of CH do you need for each pulse? Assuming the Biotest CH that is coming out soon…

12g

Professor Chaos wrote:
Do you recommend carbs with the dinner following the workout in the above plan? My current priority is hypertrophy.

Yes, definitely. 40-60g

==========================================================================

That’s on page 7 of the pulsing thread here:

In the thread CT says pulsing can only be done with Casein Hydrolysate (Hydrolized, same thing) or Whey Hydrolysate. If neither are available use BCAA’s or Leucine, cause Whey protein Isolate/concentrate won’t work! You just take 12g of CH, then 30 minutes later eat your food.

When is a good time to pulse?

CT says the best time is in the morning, and it can be done throughout the day, though you might not want to pulse on your last meal of the day (as he says in the example above).

Now instead of waiting for me to spell all this out for you, you could have just read the thread.

447

[quote]skohcl wrote:
Try this and just modify the timing of the pulses to fit your schedule, mmmk? I think asking CT to do an outline for everyone’s day for whatever suppliments they happen to have on hand would be great, but I think CT can spend his time helping us by doing other things.

===============================================================

Ok, here is the general layout:

Professor Chaos wrote:
It sounds like you’re using pulsing the way folks use leucine? ie to spark anabolism before a meal?

Exactly! However CH seems to work even better since it provides you with some raw material to take advantage of the enhanced anabolic state. CH also seems to speed up metabolism.

Professor Chaos wrote:
How does this look Christian?

0630 - Pulse
0700 - Breakfast

1100 - Pulse
1130 - Lunch

1530 - Alpha-GPC
1600 - 1 FINiBAR
1630 - 2 Scoops Workout Fuel
1645 - 2 Scoops Recovery
1700 - 1800 Workout w/ Double Pulse

1900 - Pulse
1930 - Dinner

2200 - Pulse
2230 - Pre-Bed Meal

CT approved… however I would replace the later pulse with only a solid meal or a casein miscellar shake.

Professor Chaos wrote:
2 Questions:

How many grams of CH do you need for each pulse? Assuming the Biotest CH that is coming out soon…

12g

Professor Chaos wrote:
Do you recommend carbs with the dinner following the workout in the above plan? My current priority is hypertrophy.

Yes, definitely. 40-60g

==========================================================================

That’s on page 7 of the pulsing thread here:

In the thread CT says pulsing can only be done with Casein Hydrolysate (Hydrolized, same thing) or Whey Hydrolysate. If neither are available use BCAA’s or Leucine, cause Whey protein Isolate/concentrate won’t work! You just take 12g of CH, then 30 minutes later eat your food.

When is a good time to pulse?

CT says the best time is in the morning, and it can be done throughout the day, though you might not want to pulse on your last meal of the day (as he says in the example above).

Now instead of waiting for me to spell all this out for you, you could have just read the thread.[/quote]

The one thing i havent fully understood is if only CH and WH will work, why was Grow! being recommended? Or was the Grow! recommendation jsut related tot he para-workout nutrition and not the pulsing

448

No disrespect to anyone, but this thread is going to drive me insane.

CT recomended this at the beginning of this thread -

If you can’t get Anaconda the protocols to do are as follow:

PROTOCOL 1 (1-3 times per week, when working on a weak area)
Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
W - 15 = 2 scoops Surge Recovery
During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
W + 15 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
W + 90 minutes = Grow! Whey 2 scoops

PROTOCOL 2 (other workouts)
Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
W + 15 = 1 scoop Surge Recovery, 1 scoop Grow! Whey
W + 90 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops

As I read through this thread and Nate Green’s Para workout thread however, it is also being recomended that instead of Workout Fuel, that Recovery be sipped during workout -

greggio wrote:
This looks like a protocal I can actually try. The Finibars are out for me unfortunately due to food allergies. This looks good, minus the Anaconda of course. Any recommendations for the masses who don’t have access to Anaconda yet? Maybe one scoop of SR, or a different CH product.
Thanks

While there is no real substitute for ANACONDA 1 scoop of SURGE RECOVERY would indeed be a good option since whey hydrolysate is almost as fast as CH.

Again for those of us (all of us) who can’t use Anaconda right now, which one is it during workout? Workout Fuel or Recovery?

449

Hey CT,

I noticed in the “I, Bodybuilder” forum that you mentioned some of the workouts in the new program last up to 75 minutes while others can be as short as 25. My question is how should the non-Anaconda protocol posted earlier change for workout duration?

For clarification, I am referring to:

PROTOCOL 1 (1-3 times per week, when working on a weak area)
Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
W - 15 = 2 scoops Surge Recovery
During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
W + 15 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
W + 90 minutes = Grow! Whey 2 scoops

PROTOCOL 2 (other workouts)
Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
W + 15 = 1 scoop Surge Recovery, 1 scoop Grow! Whey
W + 90 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops

The real reason behind the question is that I am starting your HSS-100 specialization series next week and am curious as what I should do for peri-workout nutrition on the low volume (non-specialization) days. Any input on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
DT

450

Thibs,

It seems as though through this thread, the typical protein/slow carbs pre-workout, and protein/fast carbs pwo is going by the wayside.

What are thoughts on using Waxy Maize Starch with creatine/leucine/beta-alanine to surge insulin before and during workouts? Is this something that would yield better results than the same combo PWO?

451

How essential is the Alpha-GPC?

452

[quote]gsxtacy wrote:
The one thing i havent fully understood is if only CH and WH will work, why was Grow! being recommended? Or was the Grow! recommendation jsut related tot he para-workout nutrition and not the pulsing[/quote]

At first Grow! might have been recommended, but now it’s not. You may use Grow! 60min post workout, but 20g of CH is what is recommended then. And if you use 20g CH 60min post workout, that could almost be like another pulse to stimulate your solid meal 30 min later.

[quote]KeepAwaySheepie wrote:
Again for those of us (all of us) who can’t use Anaconda right now, which one is it during workout? Workout Fuel or Recovery?[/quote]

If you don’t have Anaconda use 1 scoop Surge Recovery with 20-30g CH (if you have it), otherwise just use 2 scoops Surge Recovery.

453

I love how after the I, Bodybuilder promo article there is a surge of attention to Thibs’ forum.

I just hope with all of the people coming in and not even reading the thread they don’t scare him away asking questions he has already answered a billion times.

Thanks ParagonA and Skohcl for keeping order.

Also for the folks just tuning in, a lot has been said already and changed again and again in the longer threads, like this one and the pulsing thread. Thibs has often changed his views on things many times throughout the life of the threads, because he was experimenting with everything. Just go with the latest on what you read.

454

[quote]skohcl wrote:
gsxtacy wrote:
The one thing i havent fully understood is if only CH and WH will work, why was Grow! being recommended? Or was the Grow! recommendation jsut related tot he para-workout nutrition and not the pulsing

At first Grow! might have been recommended, but now it’s not. You may use Grow! 60min post workout, but 20g of CH is what is recommended then. And if you use 20g CH 60min post workout, that could almost be like another pulse to stimulate your solid meal 30 min later.

KeepAwaySheepie wrote:
Again for those of us (all of us) who can’t use Anaconda right now, which one is it during workout? Workout Fuel or Recovery?

If you don’t have Anaconda use 1 scoop Surge Recovery with 20-30g CH (if you have it), otherwise just use 2 scoops Surge Recovery.[/quote]

well after a search online i havent been able to find any CH nor is there any in any supplement stores locally. For the 20g of CH 60 min post wokrout would it just be worthwhile to do another serving of Surge? Any suggestions?

455

Ok so I’ve used this protocol two times now and each time I felt extremely nautious and like absolute shit during my workouts -

W-30 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
W-15 2 scoops Surge Recovery
During 1 scoop Surge Recovery

Before, when I was doing this protocol (and put on 18 pounds of muscle in 2 months) I felt great during workouts -

W-15 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
Imediately after workout - 2 scoops Surge Recovery

I’m just being honest. When I do the first protocol, I just don’t feel well during workouts, I feel like I just need lay down in between sets and my stomach feels bloated.

Has anyone else experienced this at first and then maybe your body got used to it??

456

[quote]MrRogersPostman wrote:
I just hope with all of the people coming in and not even reading the thread they don’t scare him away asking questions he has already answered a billion times.
[/quote]

There is a lot of confusion isn’t there? I don’t think CT will mind however. Remember that he opened this thread by saying “post away”. I’m sure if he didn’t mean it, he wouldn’t have said it.

Personaly I don’t care if somewhere on this site it has been answered somewhere, I’m posting because I can’t get a concrete answer and so much shit is changing so fast and so often.

I’m more worried about getting a definate answer on how to use the supplements I’m buying. I spend a lot of money on this site and want to make sure my hard earned money is being used to it’s full potential.

457

[quote]KeepAwaySheeple wrote:
Ok so I’ve used this protocol two times now and each time I felt extremely nautious and like absolute shit during my workouts -

W-30 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
W-15 2 scoops Surge Recovery
During 1 scoop Surge Recovery

Before, when I was doing this protocol (and put on 18 pounds of muscle in 2 months) I felt great during workouts -

W-15 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
Imediately after workout - 2 scoops Surge Recovery

I’m just being honest. When I do the first protocol, I just don’t feel well during workouts, I feel like I just need lay down in between sets and my stomach feels bloated.

Has anyone else experienced this at first and then maybe your body got used to it??[/quote]

Try cutting it down to 1 scoop Surge pre, and 1 during. Then work your way up to 2, if that’s still a problem, cut it in half. I’m fairly certain it’s not the workout fuel though.

458

would this protocol be ok for early morning workouts? what i mean is, is it ok to start the para-workout supp loading before any meals are consumed for the day?

459

Thib, in most of pre workout products,coffein is a part of it.
how often a week you would recommend to use a “coffein product”.
I think if it is used to often, you do not have the same effect anymore (adaption)

Thanks!

460

[quote]bloodnsweat wrote:
How essential is the Alpha-GPC?[/quote]

It depends on what you mean by essential.

It isn’t actually part of the para-workout protocol per se; meaning that it is not a nutrient and it doesn’t spike insulin so it doesn’t help with anabolism and recovery.

However from experience it is one of the most powerful neural stimulant. And since the I, BODYBUILDER program is highly CNS-dependant, a product that can boost neural efficiency can potentially do great things.