[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
bABoon wrote:
First, I would like to assert that I love the research Biotest does. Second, Dr. Pasquale has an article dealing with carbs post-workout. In effect, he says that carbs are not necessary to increase protein synthesis & in fact, are detrimental to the insulin sensitivity brought about by a lifting session. He goes on to say that some peri-workout amino acids & a hefty protein + fat meal post-workout are more anabolic. Anybody have some thoughts? I have to know what the hell to do.
2
Beelen M, Koopman R, Stellingwerff T, Kuipers H, Saris WH, van Loon LJ. Co-ingestion
Of Carbohydrate With Protein Does Not Stimulate Post-exercise Muscle Protein
Synthesis Rates: 874: June 1 1:45 PM - 2:00 PM. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2007 May;39(5
Suppl):S83.
That sums up my point EXACTLY. Post-workout carbs do not increase anabolism, possibly due to a decreased insulin response (because of elevated catecholamines).
Carbs and protein pre-workout
Aminos or casein hydrolysate during workout
Regular meal 60 minutes after session[/quote]
This is something I read by DiPasquale too.
Iām confused though, I thought you were saying that carbs are best āpara-workoutā, not just pre workout? So Anaconda doesnāt have carbs in it?
Would it be bad to have carbs during the workout? What I started doing this week was 60g carbs 40min. before the workout and having my usual post-workout shake (25p/35c) during it. Should I instead move that shake (or just the carbs) to having the whole thing right before the workout and just have protein during the workout?
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
bABoon wrote:
First, I would like to assert that I love the research Biotest does. Second, Dr. Pasquale has an article dealing with carbs post-workout. In effect, he says that carbs are not necessary to increase protein synthesis & in fact, are detrimental to the insulin sensitivity brought about by a lifting session. He goes on to say that some peri-workout amino acids & a hefty protein + fat meal post-workout are more anabolic. Anybody have some thoughts? I have to know what the hell to do.
2
Beelen M, Koopman R, Stellingwerff T, Kuipers H, Saris WH, van Loon LJ. Co-ingestion
Of Carbohydrate With Protein Does Not Stimulate Post-exercise Muscle Protein
Synthesis Rates: 874: June 1 1:45 PM - 2:00 PM. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2007 May;39(5
Suppl):S83.
That sums up my point EXACTLY. Post-workout carbs do not increase anabolism, possibly due to a decreased insulin response (because of elevated catecholamines).
Carbs and protein pre-workout
Aminos or casein hydrolysate during workout
Regular meal 60 minutes after session
This is something I read by DiPasquale too.
Iām confused though, I thought you were saying that carbs are best āpara-workoutā, not just pre workout? So Anaconda doesnāt have carbs in it?
Would it be bad to have carbs during the workout? What I started doing this week was 60g carbs 40min. before the workout and having my usual post-workout shake (25p/35c) during it. Should I instead move that shake (or just the carbs) to having the whole thing right before the workout and just have protein during the workout?[/quote]
No Anaconda doesnāt have carbs in it. Having carbs during the workout is fine because insulin is already elevated. However since insulin doesnāt need to be spiked at that point, the only purpose of the carbs would be to be used as energy. So having carbs during the workout would only be necessary for the longer sessions.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Carbs and protein pre-workout
Aminos or casein hydrolysate during workout
Regular meal 60 minutes after session
[/quote]
I have some quick questions regarding this method of para-workout nutrition:
Creatine, should this still be ingested post workout with grape juice?
By āregular mealā, Iām assuming you mean a solid P+F meal, correct?
For the carbs and protein pre-workout, if you were to just have one shake, how close to the workout would you recommend having it?
Before the para-workout window (2-3 hours before a workout), is there any specific recommendations for food that should be eaten (ie, avoid carbs for improved insulin sensitivity)?
[quote]conorh wrote:
To anyone that is using casein hydrolysate: Isnāt it incredibly bitter? How bad is it and what do you do about it?
[/quote]
I put 12g natural peptopro (pure casein hydrolysate) in about 6 oz of water. It tastes really bad (like vomit), but I can get it down with no problems since itās such a small amount.
[quote]slimsaw00 wrote:
KeepAwaySheeple wrote:
So considering Anaconda is not available yet, what should I be doing? I am willing to purchase whatever it is.
This is what Iām doing
W-60 1 Spike/ 2 Alpha GPC
W-40 1 Finibar
W-30 2-3 Scoops Workout Fuel
W-15 2 Scoops Recovery
During workout: Sip on 1 scoop of Surge
This has been working great for me.
-Matt
[/quote]
I have been doing the same with good results as well. (Minus the Finibar due to allergy issues)
I thought I posted this somewhere else, but I thought the general idea was to raise your insulin slowly before, then spike it during the workout while providing your body with all the right supplements, CM, Bcaa and so forthā¦no?
[quote]the pale writer wrote:
I thought I posted this somewhere else, but I thought the general idea was to raise your insulin slowly before, then spike it during the workout while providing your body with all the right supplements, CM, Bcaa and so forthā¦no?[/quote]
Iām under the assumption that you want insulin levels spiked going into the workout, hence the Surge Recovery pre-workout.
Can a scoop of Surge Recovery be used first thing in the morning (20 min or so before breakfast) for the first protein pulse of the day?
From reading the thread, the way I understand it is that a CH protein would be best, but a WH would be adequate. Therefor, Surge Recovery should be adequate first thing in the morning if one does not have any CH. Correct?
[quote]zonis20 wrote:
conorh wrote:
To anyone that is using casein hydrolysate: Isnāt it incredibly bitter? How bad is it and what do you do about it?
I put 12g natural peptopro (pure casein hydrolysate) in about 6 oz of water. It tastes really bad (like vomit), but I can get it down with no problems since itās such a small amount.[/quote]
I thought actual name-brand PeptoPro was supposed to taste better than āregularā hydrolysate. I guess it makes sense that it would taste like vomit, since some of the characteristic components of vomit are probably short peptide chains from hydrolysis in the stomachā¦
I thought actual name-brand PeptoPro was supposed to taste better than āregularā hydrolysate. I guess it makes sense that it would taste like vomit, since some of the characteristic components of vomit are probably short peptide chains from hydrolysis in the stomachā¦[/quote]
They have a flavored kind which might be betterā¦ never had it so I donāt know.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
heckya911 wrote:
Coach: I think there are alot of us that are a bit confused since there are several para-workout protocols mentioned in this thread. There are some with cassein, some with anaconda and surge recovery. What is the best protocol to use? I am getting ready to purchase Surge workout fuel, recovery and finibars and donāt know which route to take. Also what would the macros look like for the rest of the day if you are gaining muscle or losing fat, nothing is mentioned. Just want to know so I do not purchase the wrong items, I want to start asap. Thank you
The best protocol, the official one, will be:
-90 Alpha-GPC
-45 2 Finibars
-30 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
-15 2 scoops Surge Recovery
during the workout 2 scoops Anaconda
60 minutes after the workout 20g casein hydrolysate
The minimal protocol is 1 of everything instead of 2 and the heavy loading is 3 instead of 2[/quote]
Hey Coach,
Is this the protocol for all workouts or only 1-3 times per week as indicated in page 1 of the post? If itās all workout, wouldnāt the calorie intake be a concern even if one does the minimal protocol? If itās only 1-3 times per week, what do you do on the other workouts?
For people still only using Surge Recovery, how should that be taken given the new info on para-workout supplements? 2 scoops of Recovery 15 min prior and just some whey isolate during and post workout?
As far as regular meals go, how do you feel about rice oligodextrin as a carb source? I was surprised to find that itās not expensive. Iād ask the same of palatinose, but Iām still looking for a source.
Also, assuming one can get both of these carbs separately, would there be any advantage to using FINiBARs?
[quote]zonis20 wrote:
conorh wrote:
To anyone that is using casein hydrolysate: Isnāt it incredibly bitter? How bad is it and what do you do about it?
I put 12g natural peptopro (pure casein hydrolysate) in about 6 oz of water. It tastes really bad (like vomit), but I can get it down with no problems since itās such a small amount.[/quote]
I put some citric acid in with it along with some orange flavouring. Itās still kinda gross but helps alot.
[quote]slimsaw00 wrote:
KeepAwaySheeple wrote:
So considering Anaconda is not available yet, what should I be doing? I am willing to purchase whatever it is.
This is what Iām doing
W-60 1 Spike/ 2 Alpha GPC
W-40 1 Finibar
W-30 2-3 Scoops Workout Fuel
W-15 2 Scoops Recovery
During workout: Sip on 1 scoop of Surge
This has been working great for me.
-Matt
[/quote]
Matt, is Workout Fuel or Recovery you are drinking in the workout? I assume its Workout Fuel Like CT mentioned on the first page of this thread.
How long have you been using this and what results have you seen so far?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Marlind wrote:
O Godā¦Iād love to try the pulse.But living in Europe and especially in a country where its difficult to find whey protein let alone FINiBARs and Workout Fuel.I think I might never have a taste of The pulse
.Unless CT would advise a maybe-not-so-good āfoodā type of Pulse?
No food is absorbed fast enough to cause a pulsing effect. In fact no protein except casein hydrolysate and maybe whey hydrolysate is absorbed fast enough for it to work.[/quote]
Thib, Iām currently pulsing with whey protein + 5g leucine. The ingredients in the whey are listed in this order: Whey Isolate, Whey Concentrate, Whey Peptides. So Iām just wasting protein pretty much? Thanks.
