[quote]Scottish 190 wrote:
Would Wendler’s 5/3/1 and your new nutrition design compliment eachother?[/quote]
Considering today’s article I’d be interested to know Christian’s thoughts on this as well.
Thanks!
Coach,
I just ordered the Surge Workout Fuel. For my workout supplement timing i was planning on going:
1 scp Surge Workout Fuel - 30 min pre workout
1/2 scp Surge Recovery - 10 min pre workout
1/2 scp Surge Recovery - halfway point thru to end of workout
60 min post w/o - 2 scps of Grow! Whey, 5g creatine
Per your RPT parameters for carb intake, i’m supposed to be taking in about 67g of carbs/day which is covered by the Surge Workout Fuel and two 1/2 servings of Surge Recovery. Diet is tight on carbs w/ only trace carbs from veggies, cheese and Metabolic Drive (bedtime). (total daily carbs end up being 74)
- For fat loss would it be detrimental to up the Surge Recovery to 1 full svg each or should I keep the routine as is by staying close to my calculated daily carb intake?
Hey Coach Thibs,
With the new para-workout protocol along with amino pulsing, can someone train multiple times per day to get improved results? If so, by how much? I don’t think that you can give me a number, but would it be significant enough to want to try it compared to training once per day? I ask just to understand the nature of the
protocol and how it will impact the body.
Is this new training system really draining? I ask because I hear 45 minute workouts (mentioned in another post) and think it can be one of those “get more from doing less” things or “lots of work done in 45 minutes.”
Thank you.
Dear CT
Just wanted to give a short progress report.
I started with the Para-WO-Protocol I posted on June 5th a bit more than a month ago. Additionally, I added 5 x 5g Leucine to my Diet. Consumed 30min before every meal. I droped my carbs significantly and made some othe adjustments, but this may lead to far here. I believe 85% of the progress came from the Para-WO-Nutrition.
I went from 211 pounds at 10% bodyfat to 219.3 pounds at 8%. I am speachless. I mean, I’ve been working out for 19 years, competed in both bodybuilding and strengh contests, but never made such gains in such a short time. Besides, maybe, the first few month of weighlifting as a teenager… This is an incredible progress at my training age.
Funny thing: I comsumed LESS calories during this last month than before. I’m not a big fan of calorie counting, but to give you some numbers, my average daily calorie intake was around 3’500 INCLUDING Para-WO-Nutrition. I used to eat 3’700 - 3’900 kcal a day before that.
Workouts: I started a new accumulation phase together with the new diet / Para-WO-Protocol. 4 days a week, and I DROPPED the cardio/ESW-session. Still lost a lot of bodyfat.
I can’t thank you enough for all you contribute to the bodybuilding / t-muscle community.
Can’t describe how much you rule 
Cheers from Switzerland
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
GoDawgs wrote:
I, like 99.99% of the training world, don’t have access to Anaconda or any of the other high end secret supplements that you lucky ones have your hands on. What would be the best alternative para-workout nutrition for those who have access to the currently available Biotest supps(Surge Workout Fuel, Surge Recovery, BCAA, etc.) and other easily available supps?
Also, could you provide some cheaper alternatives to those who can’t afford the cost of certain protocols but want to optimize WO nutrition within their budget?
Thanks
If you can’t get Anaconda the protocols to do are as follow:
PROTOCOL 1 (1-3 times per week, when working on a weak area)
Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
W - 15 = 2 scoops Surge Recovery
During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
W + 15 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
W + 90 minutes = Grow! Whey 2 scoops
PROTOCOL 2 (other workouts)
Workout - 60 = Alpha-GPC
W - 40 = 1 FINiBAR
W - 30 = 2 scoops Surge Workout Fuel
During workout (early half) = 1 FINiBAR
During workout (later half) = 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
W + 15 = 1 scoop Surge Recovery, 1 scoop Grow! Whey
W + 90 = Grow! Whey 2 scoops[/quote]
Coach,
This approach appears lower in carbs than the protocol you mentioned in the “Nate Green” thread. Any particular reason?
Thanks
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
When I started the protocol and training program I knew that I wanted to add size. I just did not have any precise point in mind. I started out at 212lbs and I’m now 239lbs and we’re midway through week 7. And as I mentionned, I’m not gorging myself to gain. If anything I’m eating less than usual.
[/quote]
Wow, 27 lbs in 7 weeks! That is insane, congratulations. Is some of that regaining previous mass? Even if it is, that is still incredible and way more than I ever thought possible.
CT,
With regards to carb/protein post-workout nutrition, I have read that the ensuing insulin spike can be detrimental to insulin sensitivity if someone has a higher amount of body fat. Would you suggest not using the protocol unless sufficient insulin sensitivity is attained?
[quote]Therizza wrote:
CT,
With regards to carb/protein post-workout nutrition, I have read that the ensuing insulin spike can be detrimental to insulin sensitivity if someone has a higher amount of body fat. Would you suggest not using the protocol unless sufficient insulin sensitivity is attained?[/quote]
-
I actually do not recommend post-workout carbs anymore. Catecholamines released during the training session reduces the response to insulin. So post-workout carbs are not super effective… not moreso than only post-workout protein.
-
I now recommend carbs PRE workout. This way you get your insulin spike to start loading up on aminos then you switch to a non-insulin mediated amino acid transport during the workout (muscle contraction is needed for this). This is the best way to get as much aminos as possible into the muscle, and thus to stimulate as much growth as possible.
[quote]timmcbride00 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
When I started the protocol and training program I knew that I wanted to add size. I just did not have any precise point in mind. I started out at 212lbs and I’m now 239lbs and we’re midway through week 7. And as I mentionned, I’m not gorging myself to gain. If anything I’m eating less than usual.
Wow, 27 lbs in 7 weeks! That is insane, congratulations. Is some of that regaining previous mass? Even if it is, that is still incredible and way more than I ever thought possible.[/quote]
There was a rebound involved, yes. I had been dieting for 8 weeks from a high of 227 down to 212. I did not lose a lot of muscle since my strength remained stable, but the rebound effect surely accounted for some of the subsequent weight gain.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Therizza wrote:
CT,
With regards to carb/protein post-workout nutrition, I have read that the ensuing insulin spike can be detrimental to insulin sensitivity if someone has a higher amount of body fat. Would you suggest not using the protocol unless sufficient insulin sensitivity is attained?
-
I actually do not recommend post-workout carbs anymore. Catecholamines released during the training session reduces the response to insulin. So post-workout carbs are not super effective… not moreso than only post-workout protein.
-
I now recommend carbs PRE workout. This way you get your insulin spike to start loading up on aminos then you switch to a non-insulin mediated amino acid transport during the workout (muscle contraction is needed for this). This is the best way to get as much aminos as possible into the muscle, and thus to stimulate as much growth as possible.[/quote]
Would a PWO whole food meal of a protein/fat be good if using some sort of modified version of your protocol. (Drinking a scoop Surge recovery before, and 2 scoops during my workout, for instance since I am a poor college student)
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
- I actually do not recommend post-workout carbs anymore. Catecholamines released during the training session reduces the response to insulin. So post-workout carbs are not super effective… not moreso than only post-workout protein.
[/quote]
Whoa! Do you have any science or data to support this? We’ve been told for years that post-wo carbs are king for growth and insulin management, (Surge Recovery, etc.) with lots of studies to support. This would be a HUGE departure from that. (Not being a naysayer here, its just kind of a shock to hear) Or is there a difference between carb timing for minimizing bodyfat vs. maximizing muscle gain?
[quote]ggarrett wrote:
Scottish 190 wrote:
Would Wendler’s 5/3/1 and your new nutrition design compliment eachother?
Considering today’s article I’d be interested to know Christian’s thoughts on this as well.
Thanks![/quote]
-
I really like the 5-3-1 program
-
My para-workout protocol works well with any system targeting strength and (or) size gains
[quote]HG Thrower wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
- I actually do not recommend post-workout carbs anymore. Catecholamines released during the training session reduces the response to insulin. So post-workout carbs are not super effective… not moreso than only post-workout protein.
Whoa! Do you have any science or data to support this? We’ve been told for years that post-wo carbs are king for growth and insulin management, (Surge Recovery, etc.) with lots of studies to support. This would be a HUGE departure from that. (Not being a naysayer here, its just kind of a shock to hear) Or is there a difference between carb timing for minimizing bodyfat vs. maximizing muscle gain?[/quote]
I must admit that the evidence is indirect. What has been found is that catecholamine are released during intense exercise and that they stimulate the release of glucagon. Glucagon is the antagonist hormone to insulin. Two antagonist hormones are rarely released to a significant extent at the same time. And if they are, they often counteract each other.
So even if insulin was released (it is to some degree) it doesn’t do its job quite a well (or at all) because of elevated glucagon levels.
''Glucagon and plasma catecholamine responses to graded and prolonged exercise in man
H. Galbo, J. J. Holst and N. J. Christensen
Glucagon concentrations correlated significantly with norepinephrine and epinephrine concentrations during prolonged and with epinephrine during graded exercise. Although increments in catecholamines were similar, the glucagon secretion was larger during prolonged than during graded exercise. While increments in catecholamines might explain increased glucagon secretion during graded exercise, they cannot account completely for the rise of glucagon during prolonged exercise. ‘’
Hi
what do you think about a poor man’s PW drink made with powdered gatorade (sugar + dextrose) and whey in a 2-1 ratio in adequate quantity? (0.4 gr/kg fast carbs and 0,8 gr/kg protein)
Fair enough?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
HG Thrower wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
- I actually do not recommend post-workout carbs anymore. Catecholamines released during the training session reduces the response to insulin. So post-workout carbs are not super effective… not moreso than only post-workout protein.
Whoa! Do you have any science or data to support this? We’ve been told for years that post-wo carbs are king for growth and insulin management, (Surge Recovery, etc.) with lots of studies to support. This would be a HUGE departure from that. (Not being a naysayer here, its just kind of a shock to hear) Or is there a difference between carb timing for minimizing bodyfat vs. maximizing muscle gain?
I must admit that the evidence is indirect. What has been found is that catecholamine are released during intense exercise and that they stimulate the release of glucagon. Glucagon is the antagonist hormone to insulin. Two antagonist hormones are rarely released to a significant extent at the same time. And if they are, they often counteract each other.
So even if insulin was released (it is to some degree) it doesn’t do its job quite a well (or at all) because of elevated glucagon levels.
''Glucagon and plasma catecholamine responses to graded and prolonged exercise in man
H. Galbo, J. J. Holst and N. J. Christensen
Glucagon concentrations correlated significantly with norepinephrine and epinephrine concentrations during prolonged and with epinephrine during graded exercise. Although increments in catecholamines were similar, the glucagon secretion was larger during prolonged than during graded exercise. While increments in catecholamines might explain increased glucagon secretion during graded exercise, they cannot account completely for the rise of glucagon during prolonged exercise. ‘’
[/quote]
What is the difference between “graded” and “prolonged” exercise in the study? Is the theory that the glucagon will act to blunt the insulin release caused by PWO carbs?
Hi CT
How would you adapt the Protocols you’ve outline for a workout which lasts 90-120 minutes?
Thanks
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
HG Thrower wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
- I actually do not recommend post-workout carbs anymore. Catecholamines released during the training session reduces the response to insulin. So post-workout carbs are not super effective… not moreso than only post-workout protein.
Whoa! Do you have any science or data to support this? We’ve been told for years that post-wo carbs are king for growth and insulin management, (Surge Recovery, etc.) with lots of studies to support. This would be a HUGE departure from that. (Not being a naysayer here, its just kind of a shock to hear) Or is there a difference between carb timing for minimizing bodyfat vs. maximizing muscle gain?
I must admit that the evidence is indirect. What has been found is that catecholamine are released during intense exercise and that they stimulate the release of glucagon. Glucagon is the antagonist hormone to insulin. Two antagonist hormones are rarely released to a significant extent at the same time. And if they are, they often counteract each other.
So even if insulin was released (it is to some degree) it doesn’t do its job quite a well (or at all) because of elevated glucagon levels.
''Glucagon and plasma catecholamine responses to graded and prolonged exercise in man
H. Galbo, J. J. Holst and N. J. Christensen
Glucagon concentrations correlated significantly with norepinephrine and epinephrine concentrations during prolonged and with epinephrine during graded exercise. Although increments in catecholamines were similar, the glucagon secretion was larger during prolonged than during graded exercise. While increments in catecholamines might explain increased glucagon secretion during graded exercise, they cannot account completely for the rise of glucagon during prolonged exercise. ‘’
[/quote]
What about post-workout carbs for replenishing glycogen?
CT, I bet you are getting annoyed with questions on para-workout nutrition, it is the most important part of the day for gaining mass and the science has changed so I would appreciate if you could look this over for a 60 minute workout. No Anaconda, Alpha, or FINiBARs yet.
-45 BCAA’s
-30 Workout Fuel w/ 5g Creatine
-10 Recovery
CH during workout (do I need fast carbs or anything with this to get max benefit?)
60 CH w/ 5g Creatine (I don’t need anything till this, correct?)
90 meal
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Eazy wrote:
Coach, if i begin my workout at 5-5:15 how would this set-up look…
40min before: 1-FiniBAR
30min before: 1-2 Scoops Workout Fuel
10-15min before: 1 Scoop Surge Recovery
During Workout: 1 Scoop Surge Recovery
Post Workout(6:30p.m): 1 Scoop Surge Recovery
Dinner (7:30p.m) 230g Salmon W/Green Veggies
Before Bed (10:00p.m) 100g Turkey + 2 Whole Eggs
Looks almost perfect, but I would delay the post-workout until 60 minutes after the completion of the session and have the solid meal 30 min afterwards[/quote]
Three questions:
-
If you’re not recommending carbs post workout anymore, should I replace the 1 scoop Surge Recovery with 2 scoops Grow Whey?
-
I’m going to start taking Beta-7 – where in the para-workout protocol should I take it?
-
Is 1 scoop Surge Recovery 31g? I still have multiple containers of the old Surge Recovery, where 2 scoops equaled one serving.
Since everyone else is asking on their bastardized version of the protocol - just wanted to get your .02 on what I plan to do:
-45 Finibar
-30 2 scoops SWF
-10 2 scoops SR
During 1 scoop SWF
W+60 1 scoop SR + 5g creatine
Thanks!