Questions About Peri-Workout Nutrition

Training
201

[quote]corn1514 wrote:
If I were to follow this protocol on the V-Diet would I simply follow the protocol exactly as stated and reduce the amount consumed, ex, half a FINiBAR during the workout instead of a whole one, and one scoop of surge vs 2 pre workout. Or is there one particular supplement in the protocol that can be reduced/eliminated while on the V-Diet?

thanks for your time.

[/quote]

It’s not designed for the V-Diet. We’d have to all sit down and discuss the issue before making recommendations.

202

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
mabbott29 wrote:
Coach,

Because of finances at the moment, I’m forced to cut back on spending a bit. Which supplement would you recommend to go with Surge Recovery, Workout Fuel or FINiBARS? I’m on a fat loss phase by the way. Thanks for your time.

I’ve got to thinking and decided not to try to give a cheapended out version of the protocol, which will end up not really working and will make me look bad.

If you can not invest the required money to do the whole protocol, go with the ‘old school’ post-workout strategy of having 2 scoops of SURGE RECOVERY after your session.[/quote]

I usually take 4 scoops of Surge Recovery (2 scoops before & 2 after), would it still be a more effective strategy to just consume 2 scoops after or is having a serving of Surge before followed by another serving after training more effective than just after?

Thanks

203

In case anyone’s interested, this is just a study talking about some of this para-workout science.

204

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Eazy wrote:
Coach, if i begin my workout at 5-5:15 how would this set-up look…

40min before: 1-FiniBAR
30min before: 1-2 Scoops Workout Fuel
10-15min before: 1 Scoop Surge Recovery
During Workout: 1 Scoop Surge Recovery
Post Workout(6:30p.m): 1 Scoop Surge Recovery

Dinner (7:30p.m) 230g Salmon W/Green Veggies

Before Bed (10:00p.m) 100g Turkey + 2 Whole Eggs

Looks almost perfect, but I would delay the post-workout until 60 minutes after the completion of the session and have the solid meal 30 min afterwards[/quote]

Coach, with the above, would it or any of the recent para-workout strategy’s still be effective if you weren’t pulsing at other times of the day, but rather following a low carb approach up until that point?

205

[quote]JHollywood wrote:

In case anyone’s interested, this is just a study talking about some of this para-workout science.[/quote]

Great link, everyone should read it. A couple interesting tidbits from it:

“…Bird et al50 observed that post-exercise ingestion of high-glycaemic CHO did not inhibit resistance training-induced fat loss.”

It is noted that an insulin spike while watching TV is not the same as when a healthy person is performing strenuous resistance training.

“Thus, insulin has antioxidant effects too. As strenuous exercise produces muscle inflammation81 as well as increases generation of reactive oxygen species,82 it is possible that post-exercise hyperinsulinaemia offers additional benefits beyond muscle protein synthesis.”

In this paragraph the author was pointing out that insulin may have anti-inflammatory effects as well.

(The random numbers are footnotes)

206

So this morning was my first go with the workout nutrition protocol. What I did.

4:45 2 Alpha GPC
5:05 1/2 Fini bar
5:15 Scoop SWF
5:30 Scoop Surge
1st half 1/2 Finibar
2nd half Scoop of SWF
7:45 (60 min post) Scoop Surge + Scoop of Grow! Whey
9:00 3 egg Spanish Omelette w/ 1/2 cup mixed fresh fruit

Routine: Phase III of Beast Building (shoulder day)

My thoughts (Aside from the fact that waking up 30 minutes earlier than usual sucks!).

I have a volleyball tournament tomorrow so I only wanted to do the first half of the 7/5/3 wave on the Push Press/Power Shrug superset. This, unfortunately shortened the length of my workout by about 15 minutes. I mention this first because for those first 3 supersets I was really expecting to throw the weights through the roof. This wasn’t the case at all. I was psyched because of the protocol, and so I was a bit more aggressive than I might usually be, but I definitely didn’t feel stronger… Still, I finished the second half of my Finibar as I completed the last set of 3 on the power shrugs.

The next superset was when I started to feel it. Granted, I’d alredy halved the major heavy lifting portion of my workout, but I felt absolutely no fatigue from the prior lifts as I started, and continued to feel no fatigue as I progressed through the sets. 2x10, 2x8, 1x6 of Seated Shld Press/Front Raises and the last set felt like the first (but w/ heavier weights). I sipped on my SWF during this time.

First set of the finishing exercise was when the dramatic effects kicked in! Cable Cross Lat Raise 1x12@20+8(top fail)+10 (bottom fail). I usually hit this lift @ 20lbs for 10 reps and maybe get 4 at the top and 4 at the bottom. I don’t know how to describe the feeling. It was like someone hit the B button on the controller and the turbo boost kicked in… I was “surging” with energy/strength, it felt like all of my body/muscles were tingling with energy… and it was slightly euphoric.

The worst thing…this ridiculous burst of power was being wasted on the smallest, most isolated movement in the entire day’s routine (there were F-bombs dropped in acknowledgment of this)! The “surging” feeling lasted throughout the 3 supersets of finishing exercises and through the random ab excercised I decided to throw in because I didn’t want to waste the effect.

Post workout: At 7:45, about 45 minutes PWO, I was starving and so I killed the Surge/Grow! shake and things were good. About 5 minutes later I got the same feeling I’ve had when I took HOT-ROX. That sort of sweating/burning sensation. It’s 9:50 now, and I’ve had that feeling through my meal (taken 30min after the shake), and it is just starting to go away.

Based on this one day, I’m sure this protocol does something, and I think that something is probably all that Christian says it is…

I’m perplexed by the timing of when the “surge of strength” feeling kicked in. Based on this one day, it seems that I should maybe allow more time to pass between my pre-workout nutrition and when I start lifting.

I’d rather be stronger on the bigger lifts up front and not the itty bitty ones at the end. I also wonder, if I’d be better off eating the full Finibar before hand (and skipping it during the workout), taking 2 scoops of SWF, then 1 scoops Surge, and then only sipping on the 1 scoop of SWF throughout my workout. I may be thinking to linearly, but it seemed to me that the surge of strength was potentiated by the SWF, seeing as it kicked in shortly after I started drinking the SWF during the second 1/2 of my workout…

All in all, I’m excited to keep experimenting with this. By the way, the Finibars taste freakin’ awesome!

Greg

207

[quote]Eazy wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Eazy wrote:
Coach, if i begin my workout at 5-5:15 how would this set-up look…

40min before: 1-FiniBAR
30min before: 1-2 Scoops Workout Fuel
10-15min before: 1 Scoop Surge Recovery
During Workout: 1 Scoop Surge Recovery
Post Workout(6:30p.m): 1 Scoop Surge Recovery

Dinner (7:30p.m) 230g Salmon W/Green Veggies

Before Bed (10:00p.m) 100g Turkey + 2 Whole Eggs

Looks almost perfect, but I would delay the post-workout until 60 minutes after the completion of the session and have the solid meal 30 min afterwards

Coach, with the above, would it or any of the recent para-workout strategy’s still be effective if you weren’t pulsing at other times of the day, but rather following a low carb approach up until that point? [/quote]

Pulsing can be done without carbs. You have to use casein hydrolysate as its the only one absorbed fast enough.

But to answer your question, the para-workout protocol is very effective if the rest of the day is low carbs because you will be more sensitive to insulin and will thus get a better anabolic response.

208

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Eazy wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Eazy wrote:
Coach, if i begin my workout at 5-5:15 how would this set-up look…

40min before: 1-FiniBAR
30min before: 1-2 Scoops Workout Fuel
10-15min before: 1 Scoop Surge Recovery
During Workout: 1 Scoop Surge Recovery
Post Workout(6:30p.m): 1 Scoop Surge Recovery

Dinner (7:30p.m) 230g Salmon W/Green Veggies

Before Bed (10:00p.m) 100g Turkey + 2 Whole Eggs

Looks almost perfect, but I would delay the post-workout until 60 minutes after the completion of the session and have the solid meal 30 min afterwards

Coach, with the above, would it or any of the recent para-workout strategy’s still be effective if you weren’t pulsing at other times of the day, but rather following a low carb approach up until that point?

Pulsing can be done without carbs. You have to use casein hydrolysate as its the only one absorbed fast enough.

But to answer your question, the para-workout protocol is very effective if the rest of the day is low carbs because you will be more sensitive to insulin and will thus get a better anabolic response.
[/quote]

First time I tried the protocol was yesterday…I did lower carbs (40 total) right in the morning and reduced my calories for the day overall until I started the protocol. I lift at 6 and start the protocol at 5. The last thing I ate for the day was a scoop of Drive at 2:00.

Generally I felt jacked for the last 2/3s of my workout–literally looking around for shit to lift after I had finished my planned work. But from 6-6:15 I was a little sluggish and missed a little on the partial Oly lifts I start with (Clean to Front Sqaut today). I am going to go by the book for a couple more workouts and if I have the same problem start every thing 15 mins earlier.

Coach, what is the thought on the Sugre in the second half of the workout. Is this more for sustained energy (where you could potentially start sipping it at the 30 min mark) or is it more to help jack the insulin levels so the post workout scoop of Whey has transport (so you would want to wait until the 45 min mark, I guess)?

209

Coach -

My goals right now are to lean down while maintaining as much of my size as possible. I train first thing in the morning. Here is what I have been doing, a pretty old-school approach.

Immediately on waking up: 1 scoop Low-Carb Metabolic Drive
Breakfast: 1 cup oats and milk, 2 Flameout caps
Pre-workout: I mix 2 scoops of Surge Workout Fuel and start sipping as soon as it’s made, and I drink that throughout the workout, finishing it as I finish my last set.
Post-workout: 2 scoops Surge Recovery
60 min. later: Solid meal

I don’t have the funds to add any supps; in fact, I may have to cut them out for a bit, but I have almost full tubs of Metabolic Drive, Surge Recovery and Surge Workout Fuel. So my question, would something like this be more beneficial?

Immediately on waking up: 1 scoop Low-Carb Metabolic Drive
Breakfast: 1 cup oats and milk, 2 Flameout caps
Immediately pre-workout: 1 scoop Surge Recovery
During workout (2nd half): 1 scoop Surge Workout Fuel
Post-workout: 1 Scoop Surge Recovery
60 min. later: Solid Meal

Forgive me if this is… stupid. But para-workout nutrition is relatively new territory for me.

210

[quote]BigJawnMize wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Eazy wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Eazy wrote:
Coach, if i begin my workout at 5-5:15 how would this set-up look…

40min before: 1-FiniBAR
30min before: 1-2 Scoops Workout Fuel
10-15min before: 1 Scoop Surge Recovery
During Workout: 1 Scoop Surge Recovery
Post Workout(6:30p.m): 1 Scoop Surge Recovery

Dinner (7:30p.m) 230g Salmon W/Green Veggies

Before Bed (10:00p.m) 100g Turkey + 2 Whole Eggs

Looks almost perfect, but I would delay the post-workout until 60 minutes after the completion of the session and have the solid meal 30 min afterwards

Coach, with the above, would it or any of the recent para-workout strategy’s still be effective if you weren’t pulsing at other times of the day, but rather following a low carb approach up until that point?

Pulsing can be done without carbs. You have to use casein hydrolysate as its the only one absorbed fast enough.

But to answer your question, the para-workout protocol is very effective if the rest of the day is low carbs because you will be more sensitive to insulin and will thus get a better anabolic response.

First time I tried the protocol was yesterday…I did lower carbs (40 total) right in the morning and reduced my calories for the day overall until I started the protocol. I lift at 6 and start the protocol at 5. The last thing I ate for the day was a scoop of Drive at 2:00.

Generally I felt jacked for the last 2/3s of my workout–literally looking around for shit to lift after I had finished my planned work. But from 6-6:15 I was a little sluggish and missed a little on the partial Oly lifts I start with (Clean to Front Sqaut today). I am going to go by the book for a couple more workouts and if I have the same problem start every thing 15 mins earlier.

Coach, what is the thought on the Sugre in the second half of the workout. Is this more for sustained energy (where you could potentially start sipping it at the 30 min mark) or is it more to help jack the insulin levels so the post workout scoop of Whey has transport (so you would want to wait until the 45 min mark, I guess)?
[/quote]

I had a similar issue. Tim Patterson had me take a FINiBAR halfway through the workout and the problem was solved. SURGE might do the same if taken midway through, but I’d have to experiment with it first.

211

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Eazy wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Eazy wrote:
Coach, if i begin my workout at 5-5:15 how would this set-up look…

40min before: 1-FiniBAR
30min before: 1-2 Scoops Workout Fuel
10-15min before: 1 Scoop Surge Recovery
During Workout: 1 Scoop Surge Recovery
Post Workout(6:30p.m): 1 Scoop Surge Recovery

Dinner (7:30p.m) 230g Salmon W/Green Veggies

Before Bed (10:00p.m) 100g Turkey + 2 Whole Eggs

Looks almost perfect, but I would delay the post-workout until 60 minutes after the completion of the session and have the solid meal 30 min afterwards

Coach, with the above, would it or any of the recent para-workout strategy’s still be effective if you weren’t pulsing at other times of the day, but rather following a low carb approach up until that point?

Pulsing can be done without carbs. You have to use casein hydrolysate as its the only one absorbed fast enough.

But to answer your question, the para-workout protocol is very effective if the rest of the day is low carbs because you will be more sensitive to insulin and will thus get a better anabolic response.
[/quote]

My insulin sensitivity is probably going to go way up now that I stopped eating king size chocolate bars every night huh? How long does something like that take?

212

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

I had a similar issue. Tim Patterson had me take a FINiBAR halfway through the workout and the problem was solved. SURGE might do the same if taken midway through, but I’d have to experiment with it first.
[/quote]

Used the protocol to a T again today for my big leg workout. This is really a nutritional routine for that boost the second half of the workout. I usually finish my leg day with a pre-exhaust leg curl/deadlift superset, Just plowed through it today–my traps and grip gave-up before my legs were done.

Thanks for coming up with this one…my last three workouts have been hard and crisp to the end. I also want to thank you for the post about Poliquin and digestion. Between this protocol and digest force–feeling like a got a chance for some good growth here…

213

Coach

First of all I’d just like to thank you for all your time and information! The posts you put up here are great and really help me expand my knowledge.

I haven’t been able to train properly for the last 3 months and have lost 8kgs owed to this, so from tomorrow the savagery begins again

I live in South Africa so I don’t have access to Biotest products at the moment, I hope to do so in the next few months though :wink: Until then I would like to make do with what I have. Is the following protocal fine:

-45min 2x ON Superior Amino 2222 tabs
-20min Leucine caps (1200mg leucine, 400mg isoleucine, 400mg valine)
-10min 25g Whey + 20g Carbs + 5g creatine
During WO 25g Whey
+5min 7g Glutamine + 3g Taurine + 5g Creatine
+15min Post WO Shake (31g protein, 36g carbs)
+80min Leucine caps
+90min 50g Whey
+120min Solid meal Protein and Carbs

For the Carbs before training is ON Glyco-maize ok? Any better options? Secondly what is an ideal post WO carb staright after training? I know it must be high GI, but what is optimal?

Thanks in advance coach!

214

Hi Coach, I’m in the UK and cant get hold of FiNibars, will the Metabolic Drive bars be sufficient or do i add more Surge Workout Fuel to the protocol

Thanks.

215

[quote]saty83 wrote:
Hi Coach, I’m in the UK and cant get hold of FiNibars, will the Metabolic Drive bars be sufficient or do i add more Surge Workout Fuel to the protocol

Thanks.[/quote]

I’d add one scoop of Surge Workout Fuel.

216

Is the extra scoop taken when the FINiBAR would normally be taken?

217

Coach,

What would the best para-workout strategy be with Surge Recovery, whey isolate and L-Leucine ?
Should I have one scoop Surge Recovery 10 min before,one during and whey immediately after training, or just have two scoops of Surge Recovery after the workout, 60 min later L-Leucine and 10 min after the L-Leucine the whey ?

I will highly appreciate your help!

218

[quote]jk270 wrote:
Is the extra scoop taken when the FINiBAR would normally be taken? [/quote]

Yes.

219

Thank you CT.

220

During workout would there be a significant difference between using WPC and using a blend of WPC (50%), WPI (25%), and whey hydrolysate (25%)? The blend is about 25% more expensive, but would the results be worth it or would WPC be effective?