I’m 46 and have been training for about 1 year, in which time I lost about 20 lbs of fat and gained about 20 lbs of lean mass. This has been great! But maybe it’s slowing down, and I wonder if my golden time of beginner results is ending, so the topic interests me.
I’ve read comments at T-Nation and elsewhere (Rippetoe books, for example) about the beginner effect, such as these two thoughts:
Never mind how long you’ve been training or what you’ve done, you’re a beginner and could still make rapid advances with a beginner’s program if you are still far from your genetic potential. (I recall a graph in one of Mark Rippetoe’s books illustrating something like this)
“I wish I had my beginner period to do over again now that I know how to train properly. I’d get way more out of it.”
If #1 is right, #2 wouldn’t work, you could get through your beginner period faster, but not get farther.
Anyone have any thoughts about this or know if the
“beginner effect” in strength training is solidly understood?
Your assesment is right, there is no point in wishing you were a beginner again because it only affects the speed of the gains, not the end effect.
However, if you have read TheDudeAbides thread you can see that even an experienced lifter can make substantial gains if his previous training has been less than optimal.
Once your “golden time” is over you will know it by a number of things.
You are very strong.
You work out so hard that you can not lift heavy again 48 hours later.
Frequent heavy lifting causes you to overtrain.
Once you reach this point you need to periodize. That means that you need to have a light workout in between your heavy workouts. Another way is to split your workout so you do part one workout and part another. The most efficient is an upper/lower split 4 days a week.
You may want to read Practical Programming by Rippetoe as he explains this all in great depth.
Makes sense to me. But, if you don’t get greedy about adding weight to the bar, and you learn how to deload correctly, you can probably milk the beginner phase of your lifting for a longer time.
As I understand it, the beginner effect is your CNS and muscles “learning” how to perform exercises more efficiently. If you’re an intermediate or advanced lifter, and you start doing a new exercise, you can still benefit from the beginner effect.
i think its also the lots of generations. most people in the past were nowhere near as strong as… people who really weightlift are. they didnt have the right food, nor knew how to weightlift right. so the human body is more prone towards an intermediate strength level rather than near your genetic potential. surely if everyone lifted we would all be stronger but that would take generations
[quote]stuward wrote:
Your assesment is right, there is no point in wishing you were a beginner again because it only affects the speed of the gains, not the end effect.
However, if you have read TheDudeAbides thread you can see that even an experienced lifter can make substantial gains if his previous training has been less than optimal.
Once your “golden time” is over you will know it by a number of things.
You are very strong.
You work out so hard that you can not lift heavy again 48 hours later.
Frequent heavy lifting causes you to overtrain.
Once you reach this point you need to periodize. That means that you need to have a light workout in between your heavy workouts. Another way is to split your workout so you do part one workout and part another. The most efficient is an upper/lower split 4 days a week.
You may want to read Practical Programming by Rippetoe as he explains this all in great depth.
BTW, drop into the Over 35 forum and say hello.
Stu[/quote]
Thanks, Stuward, that’s a helpful answer. I am certainly much stronger than I’ve been before, but not “very strong” by any means. Tim Henriques had a T-Nation article about strength levels, and I am “decent” on his scale, so there should still be plenty of beginner gains left for me. Tim said, “Decent wouldn’t be considered “strong” in hardly any strength training circles. I believe that almost all people can achieve the decent level of strength through training. My guess is that most people would achieve this level after 6-12 months of training.” He’s right, that’s how long it took me.
I do feel that trying heavy squats two days after a previous heavy workout doesn’t work well for me, but this is probably psychological. “Heavy” for me is only 225 lbs. On other lifts there is no problem two days later. So, good news, I’m still a beginner!
Thanks for the invite to the Over 35 forum, maybe I’ll post something about my aching joints there.
If #1 is right, #2 wouldn’t work, you could get through your beginner period faster, but not get farther.
Makes sense to me. But, if you don’t get greedy about adding weight to the bar, and you learn how to deload correctly, you can probably milk the beginner phase of your lifting for a longer time.
As I understand it, the beginner effect is your CNS and muscles “learning” how to perform exercises more efficiently. If you’re an intermediate or advanced lifter, and you start doing a new exercise, you can still benefit from the beginner effect.[/quote]
I agree neurological training is a big part of beginner strength gains, and should still be there waiting when you try something new.
As for muscle size gains, I wonder if there is something like this going on:
There is a natural minimum rate of muscle tissue breakdown for a well-nourished person, call it X grams/day per kg of muscle, and
There is a maximum rate of muscle tissue generation, let’s say it’s Y grams/day (I recall CT saying it works this way), so
If you have almost no muscle (a total beginner), you can add Y grams/day of muscle with good training and eating, but
Your genetic potential maximum muscle mass M is when these balance: M = Y/X.
Sorry for the equation, I’m just wondering if the idea makes sense: your genetic potential for size is set by your body’s ability to keep up with the natural catabolism of your hyooge muscles. Genetic potential for strength would be a different thing.
You might want to try a program like this Bill Starr’s 5x5. I find as you get older, you need more recovery time. That is, you leave the beginner zone not because you’re stronger but because your recovery can’t keep up. It uses the same basic exercises but arranges them into heavy, light, medium so you make progress weekly instead of every workout.
[quote]stuward wrote:
You might want to try a program like this Bill Starr’s 5x5. I find as you get older, you need more recovery time. That is, you leave the beginner zone not because you’re stronger but because your recovery can’t keep up. It uses the same basic exercises but arranges them into heavy, light, medium so you make progress weekly instead of every workout.
Stu[/quote]
Thanks for the suggestion. I have been only lifting two days a week, with one or two days of cardio, time permitting. This is partly due to time constraints and partly to give my aged self extra recovery time. I always have significant DOMS after a good squat workout, and I’ve heard this might go away with more frequent lifting. Others say don’t lift until the DOMS is gone.
I have not so far done a very structured program, though I do record my workouts and try to progress them, and gradually change the exercise choices to perk things up. I have considered Rippetoe’s beginner program.
I can tell you from experience that you can work through DOMS and working more frequently builds conditioning that prevents DOMS. Waiting for DOMS to be gone before you work out will guarantee that you get it every time.
[quote]stuward wrote:
I can tell you from experience that you can work through DOMS and working more frequently builds conditioning that prevents DOMS. Waiting for DOMS to be gone before you work out will guarantee that you get it every time.
Stu[/quote]
That sounds convincing. I’ll see if I can manage to squat three days a week and see how the DOMS goes. Thanks for the advice.
[quote]joshjuk wrote:
read Chris’s blog today under Shugart’s hammer on the forum section[/quote]
Thanks for the tip, it was a good read and seems to fit my situation. Keeping up my enthusiasm is a challenge. Reading T-Nation is a big part of that for me.
