Q&A with Shadow Pro

Pharma
341

[quote]trenblood wrote:
How do you over come pain ( elbow and knee pain ) is there anything you do or take other then HGH to help ?

Your thoughts on doing cardio on a empty stomach the minute you get up compare to doing it after a workout ?

have you ever had pain form injecting short ester and if so what did you do since you had to inject ed, other then rotate .

do you believe in doing less cc more injection or more cc less injection each day.

thank you the replies and been on here .[/quote]

I have some nagging injuries that require me to take naproxen for short burst of time(about 2 weeks) I also use Flameout year round, deep tissue massage and chiropractic treatments every week… Ice after hard workouts and hot tub/sauna

Recent studies show there is no different or benefit to do cardio on an empty stomach… As long as you get it done, doesn’t really matter when you do it. I prefer after the workout. What really matters is to be in a calorie deficit for losing fat but as long as your doing cardio for the extra energy expenditure then you’re all good. Some people just like the feeling of doing cardio 1st thing in the morning but there’s not real benefit of it.

For me, doing test-p and tren-a everyday hurts like a bitch… But I just suck it up and do what I have to do. Here’s a few things that can help. A cream containing arnica can help, you find at most health food stores, put this cream on the area after injection. Massages can also help… That really hurts! Warm up oils before injection(in warm water) and rotate as much as possible.

342

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]rager wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]rager wrote:
Hey Shadow Pro,

I have a couple more questions.

  1. DNP- I have used this before with good success and I know the protocols to follow for it to be safe. The only problem is I just finished a show 3 weeks ago and I am currently sitting at 6.5% bf via 9 site caliper test. I kept my diet tight post show and I decided to do another show in 8 weeks. I know DNP has worked well in the past for me but at 6.5% I feel it may not have much of an effect bc I dont have enough bf on me to lose. I am not on any T3, clen or cardio and I do have time on my side but I want to maximize my post show rebound which I have been and at the same time do zero cardio or dieting bc I feel like it will effect my rebound. My thought process was use the DNP to take off the extra fat I have left in a 2 week period so I dont have to diet or do cardio or any fat burners. Make sense but wanted to get your thoughts on this?

  2. You mention you take clients but not on a commercial level. Well I am looking for someone to bounce ideas off of, not necessarily giving me diets but to give me feedback and help me through the process of dieting and offseason protocols. Basically a coach but a coach williing to work with me and my ideas. Commitment is no probelm, Ive been training for over 20 years and my workouts are grueling, I have gone through so many training partners bc most are not wiling to train hard enough, even though everyone is “hardcore”. PM me if your interested, I live in So. Cal.[/quote]

  3. Yes, dnp works… I also think that the ability to have quality training sessions is literally impossible while on it. I don’t think that 8 weeks is enough time to gain any kind of significant amounts of muscle. When you say you are 6.5% bf I am thinking you are no where near stage ready, you should be under 4% on a caliper test before even thinking about going on stage so this tells me you still have a long way to go. In addition, you aren’t taking any fat burners at the moment. Doing 20-30min of cardio a day won’t hurt your rebound or cause muscle loss… So get on it! Take Clen and t3 before cardio (doesn’t have to be a high dose) and adjust your diet in order to get to the correct bodyfat that you need to be on stage.

Dnp can also cause issues for the depletion and loading process, making you look flat as hell with no way to fix it except using extreme measures. I see more cons than pros so if I were you I’d get my ass in gear and start doing a bit of cardio, get on Clen and t3, adjust my diet and train like a mother fucker. Don’t pick the easy way out. Your look going onto stage will be much better if you go this route, trust me. Usually the more conservative way is the best. I’ll leave this up to you.

  1. I appreciate your interest but I am not taking anyone on right now, you are more than welcome to run things by me on here for everyone else to read. I am very busy concentrating on my career right now so I don’t have a lot of time. [/quote]

SP,

Thank you for addressing my questions. I probably left allot out but I do compete at around 3.5% on a 9 site caliper or 2.5% via hydrostatic underwater test. So 6.5% is no where near stage ready but for me, at 8 weeks out, thats low bc I tend to tighten up real quick towards the end.

I am aware that DNP causes water retention, lethargy, etc making workouts tough, but I think with only a 10-14 day blast I can deal with it, especially since its anti catabolic and all of the lost weight comes in the form of fat and not muscle…a huge plus for me. I am also trying to catch a post show rebound and I am 3 weeks into and I have never been so big and such a low bf % and I’m sure you know that most of our muscle gains can be made during post show rebound.

So I’m kinda juggling these last few weeks, going on a HGH-SLIN blast for the last 3 weeks and continuing it until 4 weeks out, then I will cut the slin out, but for the next 8 weeks I will lower the carbs slowly out of my diet but I am going to keep the slin in pre breakfast, intra and post until 4 weeks out. I can still lose bf bc I will make the caloric deficit through a reduction of carbs later in the day.

I figure the DNP will make a modest 2% reduction in my bf but that modest reduction would be at 4.5%, I would only need to lose about 2 more pounds to get down to 3.5% and I would have 6 weeks to do that, pretty easy I would think. The DNP can cause problems loading and depleting but I would do the DNP right about now so I have 6 weeks to adjust and literally lose 2-3lbs more to get into contest shape.

I was going to employ T3 and Clen at 6 weeks out after the DNP cycle to get things moving and do NO cardio and just adjust the diet to lose the 2-3lbs. Thoughts on this approach? I hate cardio, not bc its cardio but bc it always decimates my leg size. So it would look like this:

Weeks out

8-DNP, keep insulin in at pre breakfast, intra and PWO
7-DNP, keep insulin in at pre breakfast, intra and PWO
6-Add 25mg T3 and 100mcg of Clen, add in carbs slowly to adjust for the depletion of DNP and wait for water retention to fall off to see changes and adjust accordingly
5- Cut carbs by 20%
4-Carb cycle by reducing carbs by 50% for 2 days then up to normal and back down to 2 days, etc. DROP INSULIN, with the exception of High carb days every 3rd day.
3- Carb cycle by going 3 days at 50% before high day, then repeat
2- Increase T3 to 50mg. Drop High carb days all together by doing at a 50% reduction of carbs for all 7 days, Drop Insulin
1- Start depletion, contest prep week, drop Test and HGH, and drop all fat burners on Wednesday in order to fill out.
[/quote]

Ok, so your first message wasn’t clear… I thought you were planning on doing the DNP in the last 2 weeks before the show. There are some good points and some very bad points in what you’re going to go. It’s a complex protocol and I don’t feel comfortable giving something like this without seeing who I’m dealing with.

What level is this show?

Can you please post a front and back double bicep picture? [/quote]

I just finished a pretty big show 3 weeks ago, getting a nice rebound with this new protocol and like to see what I would look like with this new look, plus I just want to do another show using a different protocol. Show is a regional show.

Its a pretty complex protocol …I totally get it and I for one would not feel comfortable giving out ANY advice if I saw this…BUT, I had to try. If you still want to help out, I’ll send photos

343

You recommend nolvadex… Do you think that its negative effect on IGF 1 levels is important to take into consideration for the HGH free lifter? (During cycle, as an aE blocker I mean)

344

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]LMPCF wrote:
Dear Shadow Pro,

I Have another question I really would like to have answered. A friend of mine is on his third cycle right now after a pretty shitty second cycle (about 6 weeks gear free in between the cycles). He is in his 4th year of serious training and both sleep and nutrition are not a limiting factor.

He would like to have your feedback on the cycle and have his question answered.

It is a twelve week cycle:
week 1 - 8 100 mg test-prop e/od (inject)0
week 3 - 8 40 mg winstrol (tabs stanozolol)
week 3 - 9 Clenbuterol (2 days off, days on… etc) starting with 20 mcg, ending with 60-80 mcg)
week 9 - 12 20 mg nolvadex

He is in his 4th week right now but thinks an 8 week test-prop is a little bit long so he wants to convert it to 6 weeks with 150 mg test-prop eod. Is this ok? Should he increase/decrease dosage of his other compounds? Should he add or remove any compounds?

The only side effect he notices is decreased testicle size (he TOLD me) and a little bit of joint issues (due to the winstrol he says). Libido is not extremely high or low, little bit lower as usual.

His problem is that right know he doesn’t feel or see a lot of difference.
(Brand of the gear is Genesis, dont know if that’ll help you

Thanks a lot for your help man![/quote]

I would add 250iu of HCG eod it will help with the balls.

8 weeks on test-p is fine but it would run the nolvadex throughout the cycle 10-20mg/day

What is the goal of his cycle? It appears to me that he is attempting some sort of a cutting cycle? There’s only so much strength you can gain from 40mg of winstrol.

Tell me more about the goals and maybe I can be more helpful.[/quote]

It is a cutting cycle indeed. His intentions are to become leaner and harder.

345

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]LMPCF wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]LMPCF wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]LMPCF wrote:
Also a newbie poster here, been reading and applying T-Nation knowledge since I started training however. First forum that has intrigued me to react.

To make a long story short:
I have done bodybuilding for about 3 years, gaining about 40 pounds of muscle (from 145 pounds to 185 pounds at 6’1")
At the end of my bodybuilding career is suffered a severe neck injury and kept on training for a year (sounds really stupid, but the story is more complex then that). I was in need of functional recovery and started doing crossfit, got bitten by the bug and stuck with it now. (No disrespect whatsoever to bodybuilding, see a lot of hate between the two sides but that is not me).

I finally found a magically good physical therapist so i’ll be returning to real intensity soon. My goal is to start competing at a high level as soon as possible. Competing at high level has always been a goal for me but I have been stopped my injuries multiple times. The past year I have put so goddamn much effort in becoming a perfectly functioning human being that nothing is gonna stop me now lol.

I am, and I believe the entire T-Nation community is aswell, convinced that nearly all pro crossfit athletes are on gear because of the great benefits they give towards crossfit style training. My question to you is what would you advice for a beginner cycle for crossfit?

I wont be doing it anytime soon, I’ll go clean for probably another year (i reckon it’ll take me this long before I start reaching plateus again) and then start it.

Thank you for the effort you take answering everybody’s (and hopefullly my) guestions!

[/quote]

Taking into consideration that in crossfit you need to keep your condition and endurance, I would suggest something like this.

12 WEEKS

Testosterone- if you don’t mind pinning every day I would recommend test-prop @ 75mg eod
If you don’t want to pin so often I’d say test-e @250mg/week
Masterone - mast-p @ 75mg eod OR mast-e @ 300mg/week

  • for athletes not interested in weight gain I always recommend short esters because they cause less water retention and they are in and out of your system very fast.
    Since it’s your first cycle, we don’t know how you react to drugs and what kind of side effects you’ll get. With short esters you can stop if needed and they work immediately so you’ll see results right away. Long esters take a few weeks until they are stable in your blood therefore the results would slower. Both will work great but it really depends on how often you want to inject.

Also add:
Anavar @60mg/day (much more gentle than many of the other orals out there)
OR
Winstrol @50mg/day (it will give you more strength but more aggressive than anavar)

Nolvadex 10-20mg/day (start with 10 and up it to 20 if you have any issues)
250iu HCG 2x/week
[/quote]

Sounds great, lots of thanks for your help.

Few small questions. I hear a lot of good things about growth hormone and epo. Is there any benefit to adding them (without any horrible side effects ofcourse)?

Also about the cycle. Ill do the testosterone and masterone eod (on the same day right?), take the anavar/winstrol every day and HCG twice a week. Should I do the nolvadex right from the start for the whole 12 weeks or is that something for after (thought nolvadex was something for after, but then again I only heard stuff about cycle from the most retared people on the planet so I dont believe anything they tell me).

Sorry for the noob questions, everybody has got to start learning sometime right?

P.S. Diet/sleep/recovery is all on point![/quote]

GH is great for recovery, nagging injuries and fat burning. Since you are doing crossfit and don’t want a lot of water retention I would only do low dose of 2-3iu/day. If you are under 25, save your money until you are older… You’ll get more benefits then.

Never used epo, it’s mostly used by endurance athletes (marathon runners, cyclists) I don’t know enough about it to give you information and don’t want to mislead you. Since crossfit is not just an endurance sport I wouldn’t bother, especially on a first cycle.

Yes, you are doing mast/test on the same day, HCG 2x/week and I put the nolvadex there as a preventative measure to keep you safe from gyno… Better safe than sorry!

You have made quality posts and I don’t mind any questions from beginners, I actually prefer people to get off on the right foot. So let me know if you need anything else.
[/quote]

Thanks Shadowpro! I will definitely keep this cycle in mind for next year. Any thoughts on how long a GH cycle with 2-3iu a day should last?

Good that you are honest about this, i wasnt really planning on doing EPO but was just curious.

What is the protocol when I get bad gyno for example (eg stop cycle and increase nolvadex)? And when I dont react very well to the stuff. I am not aware of the consequences when stopping in the middle of the cycle. Would like to know what I should do in such a case should it ever happen.

I have always wanted to know more about steroid use from a source that would really know what he/she is talking about. Really good to have you here bro![/quote]

You can stay on 2-3iu indefinitely as long as your budget allows it. The longer you stay on the better results you’ll see and you won’t see any negative side effects. I stay on GH year round.

As for gyno, you shouldn’t see any symptoms with the cycle I gave you… It’s very light. There’s a few options u can do… Either up the nolva to 40mg/day or 1mg of arimidex every 3rd day. Also, keep in mind that masteron has mild anti estrogen properties and this will help as well. Don’t just stop the cycle, if anything taper down slowly. Your dosages will be very low so I don’t think you’ll have any issues. NEVER just stop.
[/quote]

Thanks, my first problem would be getting my hands on some QUALITY GH, not some chinese bullshit. I am also gonna try and find a channel in my university where i can get my stuff tested, who knows ill find something!

I already reckoned the chance would be minimal but still, my greatest fear of doing cycles is getting titties. It wont kill my self asteem or anything but i wouldnt be able to crossfit with no tshirt on and that would raise questions lol. Cant let anybody see the gyno, as my coach would immediately know whats going on and out of jealousy he would just go around and tell everyone.

Thanks for the tips, wasn’t really planning on stopping the cycle immediately EVER, now that I know I will never lol.

If any questions pop into my mind ill be back!

PS great idea for the paypal account, you would deserve a donation from me to.

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Lol, immediatly after submitting my last post I have a new question for you.

I hear you saying a lot about Plazma, microPA and MAG-10 for the bodybuilders. I think that the plazma probably isnt a good idea for me because i do not want to get pumped during wods, thats death for every crossfit workout.

But what are you ideas on supplementation? Now I am taking:
Protein Isolate (throughout the day, just depends on how much protein I get from my meals)
Mixture of fast and slow release protein (dynamatize) (before bed)
Vitamine D3, (every morning 5000IU)
Multivitamins, Fish Oil (every morning and evening) (for the vitamins the regular dose is 3 pills a day, i take one morning, one evening)
ZMA (every evening)
I do have some pre workout but I only take this when I am during pure strength training, shit doesnt go well with endurance lol.

Any advice on this?

What you take on carbs or not. During my bodybuilding phase I ate over 800 grams of carbs a day (not 800 grams of rice, just 800 grams of pure carbs lol). This sounds crazy but I gained weight like crazy and dropped fat doing this (see image).

Since I am doing crossfit I have tried the paleo diet. Which means I can not have rice, pasta, outmeal or other carbsource except for fruit and vegetables. My calories constist mainly of fats and protein.

I havent really trained intensively on this diet so I dont know how I this diet effects me during that. I do however notice that I have gained some fat since (could also be because of the lower intensity training) even though I eat like 3000 calories less then i did. Carbs boost my already fast metabolism even more, especially because I time my meals perfectly each day.

Thanks bro!

347

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]Dianaballs wrote:
cool, thanks for your help

actually, another thing if you dont mind, what would you reccomend to a powerlifter wanting to drop as much fat as possible in say 16-20 weeks, while maintaining strength, if i gain some i suppose i wont complain ha. id like to get my conditioning back to where it was so not sure on tren. also not a huge amount of cash at the moment. thanks![/quote]

If you want to drop as much fat, diet is you ultimate key here. Make sure your diet is super clean and your intraworkout nutrition in tact. Carbs and calories in general should be relatively high on your heavy lifting days BUT in the off or light days you should lower the carbs and calories significantly to make these “fat burning days”

I will build you a cycle but I need to know some information about you first. How many cycles? (And what did they include) have you used tren before? (Any issues with it?). How many times a week do you train? Can you afford GH in a low dose like 2-4iu/day?[/quote]

unfortunately not! its something ive wanted to try for a while. i know all about the dieting side being the most important, i should have said “will allow me to keep strength while running a crazy calorie deficit and not lose muscle!” sorry! this will be my 3rd blast, first 2 were bulks. just straight test and tbol for both, had great results.tried dbol the first one, (yes i now know dbol when knowing youre gyno prone is retarded, unfortunately didnt know then!ha) but it made my nipples burn.

i havent run tren, thats something i really want to also. i suppose i could work on my conditioning for the first 10 weeks and then add tren the last 6? i train 4 days a week, bench,squat, day off, bench assistance, off, deadlift, off,fairly high volume. thank you so much for your help

348

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]dutchie1 wrote:
Thanks alot for all your effort shadow, in this entire thread

  1. So far no one has asked your opinion on short cycles (2 weekers), do you think they are acceptable for individuals who prefer to be “under the radar” or whose goal is to recover natural test production as quick as possible? (at least i haven’t fuond any in here)

  2. Do you think it’s okay to run a cycle without testosterone as a base? I’ve heard only of rare cases (in particular) bill roberts claiming trenbolone Dianabol been his favorite bulking cycle. Since Dianabol is a testosterone derivative and is aromatizable (solving low estrogen problem) with HCG in the mix for natural testosterone would such a cycle be alright?

Some people claim test increases side effects in other compounds so that’s why many go with low test high tren (the most extreme case i heard of if a person doing 10mg/d test prop with 210mg/d tren ace … strangely this guy mentioned getting very little side effects even at such a dose and having compendious libido) and why i’d really like to know your opinion on the subject

Again, thanks for your effort shadow[/quote]

  1. They can work to an extent but you won’t get anything close to a real planned out cycle that lasts about 8-16weeks. Shorts cycle I would do on short esters is 8 weeks long. If you’re keen on doing one then your best choice would be something like test-suspension pre-workout, tren-a and/or an oral.

I wouldn’t recommend this because I think if you want to do something like this, at least do it right. The gains you will get from a 2 week cycle are very minimal and most likely won’t hold because your body doesn’t have enough time to adjust. Human body likes homeostasis and a sudden change like this wouldn’t be your best option.

  1. It can be done but wouldn’t be by first choice. I think tren running without test would be very aggressive mentally for people. I personally feel that running test with tren helps balance the mental sides that the tren can give. Is there logic? Yes there is, but it’s just not my first choice and I don’t think it’s optimal for gains. Again, it comes down to your goal. If you want a hard and dry look and you don’t care about sides and possible low libido then high tren and low test would allow you to achieve this look.
    [/quote]

I wasn’t planning to either of these cycles anytime soon, like i said Bill claims it’s his favorite cycle and i wondered what is your pov on it

349

Any tip-suggestion to improve the arms? frequency?

thanks a lot!

350

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]MassEffect wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]MassEffect wrote:
Shadow Pro,

First of all - mad respect. I’ve been reading this thread since 1st post and I’m really enjoying learning from you. Thanks for doing this.

Background on me - 23y/o - Male- 220lbs - 6"1’ - under 15% bf - larger legs, moderate chest/uppers,. (leg day is forever the favorite)
I’ve been lifting for 6 years (on and off, more on than off). I’ve done a natural bodybuilding show (2) and I’ve even taken home a 1st place trophy (woo!).

Recently I’ve been all over the map with motivation after getting married and getting a hardcore deskjockey job. My wife got into fitness and has rekindled the fire I had for the sport when I was a teen. I’ve been toying around with the idea of trying for the physique class, most of those guys weight is around or under mine and I’m very symmetrical albeit leg heavy.

I have a bunch of questions, forgive me if I missed you answering some of these - I really did try to read everything you posted.

I’m stacking a ton of natty sups right now to boost test levels, Animal: Stak, M-Stak, Cellucor: P6 Red and P6 Black. I’m insanely strong on the right dose and its very noticable when I miss a dose. Along with damn near every animal supp in the line. I’ve gotten great results with them, but I feel like I’m hitting a wall and want to make more noticeable progress faster. Do you think these are a waste of money? In your experience has anyone ever benefited tremendously from using natty sups while on gear?

In addition to the test booster natty sups I’m taking Animal Cuts and Cellucors Super HD + CLK to help me drop weight.

I want to start rx to lean down aggressively and prep for a show without losing any size or strength. This will be my first cycle. I train 3x weekly (back/front/legs) +2 hours and cardio 3x weekly for roughly 500~1000kcal burned each time.
What kind of stack would you think could be a good way to help me achieve my goals (physique show) sometime late this year?

Thanks for taking time out of your day to contribute the knowledge you’ve gained over the years.
Mass[/quote]

Thank you for following, I’ll give you my ideas based on what you’ve told me. It would be great if you could post a photo so I can see where you’re at… It will make a difference otherwise I’m speculating on a starting point. Peoples ideas of REAL bf % are all over the map. Also, current diet please.

As for supplements. I’ve tried all of the big supplement brands products over the years and to be honest most of them are complete garbage… What concerns me the most about these is that the labels are very misleading in most cases. This brings me back to the point of why I am here in the first place… I discovered Biotest products long ago and it’s the only supplements I will ever spend my money on because they are actually working by themselves alone and even better when you combine them with prescription meds. For me and many clients & friends this has made a world of difference in my career. Obviously the site would never promote the use of steroids with product but I have experimented with all of the combinations and found crazy results and I will share my findings with you.

For adding lean muscle mass I like this new supplement called micro-pa, I gave it to a lot of my clients and over a 2 month period they got harder, stronger and gained a noticeable amount of muscle (some of them physique competitors) one of my female clients competes naturally and I honestly asked her if she was taking something behind my back because I never expected so much out of a supplement alone.
As for fat burners, I made a previous post about my favorites… Either go with an ECA stack, HOT-ROX, indigo. (clen & t3 for prescription choices). There is no product on the market like Indigo-3G,it just doesn’t exist and I find it extremely important especially pre contest to keep you full and allow you to keep your carb intake relatively high while still losing fat, I use it right up to the day of my show. For a natural test booster, I only use Alpha Male (during my pct). I don’t think supplements are a waste of money at all, you just need to pick and choose the right ones… The gear and the supps enhance eachother, I can’t imagine a prep without one or the other.

Now for the Rx questions:
For your first time cycle as a physique competitor (without seeing pics) I would suggest something like this:
Test-p 100mg EOD
Mast-p 100mg EOD
Anavar @60mg/day OR winstrol @ 50mg/day
Nolvadex 10mg/day
HCG 250iu every 3rd day

It’s very basic but as a first cycle it would work great for you. Please send pics first. It’s possible you can play around with Clen or t3 but for physique I don’t think you’ll have to go there, you can get hard and lean from non-rx supplements combined with your cycle.

[/quote]

Hey Shadow Pro,

Thanks again for replying! Thats very cool information and I am grateful to have it.
my diet looks like this (same thing every day)

6 egg white 2 yolks
1/2 cup oatmeal
10 almonds
teaspoon of honey
5oz lean ground beef

60g p shake

8oz chicken
1/2 cup veggies

60g p shake

10-8oz chicken or fish (fish on post workout days)
1cup white rice (post workout day)
1cup veggies

on workout days I add some carbs in before and after the workout. I don’t take any intra workout supplements and my pre is animal rage XL/Stak/MStak

I snapped a few pics and i have them uploaded to my onedrive - i shared them out for you here. http://1drv.ms/1lujW9O
just noticed I don’t have a chest shot lol, its not huge.

Thanks again for doing this. I really appreciate it.

[/quote]

First of all I need to say thank you for having the courage to post pictures here, not a lot of guys have done this yet. And for everyone reading please note that pictures are very important because I need to see with my own 2 eyes what I’m trying to work with.

I am not trying to be offensive what so ever but in order to help you I need to tell you the truth and what my thoughts are… Ok here go:

You mentioned that you are under 15% bodyfat. By looking at the pictures I have to say you are more like 15-20 and this is a problem when starting the cycle I suggested. First thing I want you to do is lower your bodyfat to around 10% naturally. A good way to see if you’re there is to be able to see somewhat clear definition throughout the whole body, and a more accurate way to do it would be with a DEXA/DXA scan and these are available in most major cities. The numbers won’t lie and you’ll see exactly where you’re at.

Wait on the cycle and invest in the supplements I suggested until your bodyfat is lowered and then we will reevaluate. Most importantly let’s get the indigo, ECA & HOT-ROX on the go. Change your cardio to 4-5 days/week to HIIT (sprints being my first choice) if you can get to a track, something like 80-100m sprint then 80-100m jog (repeat 8-10x) and obviously after a good warm up. It will not hurt leg size, if anything it will help. Do this for the next 8 weeks. If you want to get lean faster, eat your daily carbs ONLY in the workout from Plazma (for the 8 weeks before we reassess)

Meal 1 egg whites to 10, drop egg yolks, oatmeal and honey & drop ground beef to 4oz

Meal 2 lower protein to 1.5servings of MAG-10 (not regular protein shake)

Meal 3 replace chicken with white fish

Meal 4 1.5 servings of MAG-10

Meal 5 only 8 oz of chicken or fish (not 10)

Meal 6 will be your intraworkout Plazma (3 servings)

** keep the post workout white rice… So carbs will be coming from Plazma (114g), rice (50g), MAG-10(30g)

Take your fat burners pre-cardio…

Day you aren’t training, you can add one more protein meal(8oz steak) and 1tbsp mct oil and drop Plazma in those days so you’ll be low carbing on the off days.

When you get down to the desired bodyfat (minimum 10%) then we can talk about the cycle. Please keep me updated on how it goes.

[/quote]

What is the issue with doing a cycle at 15-20% body fat?

351

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]MassEffect wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]MassEffect wrote:
Shadow Pro,

First of all - mad respect. I’ve been reading this thread since 1st post and I’m really enjoying learning from you. Thanks for doing this.

Background on me - 23y/o - Male- 220lbs - 6"1’ - under 15% bf - larger legs, moderate chest/uppers,. (leg day is forever the favorite)
I’ve been lifting for 6 years (on and off, more on than off). I’ve done a natural bodybuilding show (2) and I’ve even taken home a 1st place trophy (woo!).

Recently I’ve been all over the map with motivation after getting married and getting a hardcore deskjockey job. My wife got into fitness and has rekindled the fire I had for the sport when I was a teen. I’ve been toying around with the idea of trying for the physique class, most of those guys weight is around or under mine and I’m very symmetrical albeit leg heavy.

I have a bunch of questions, forgive me if I missed you answering some of these - I really did try to read everything you posted.

I’m stacking a ton of natty sups right now to boost test levels, Animal: Stak, M-Stak, Cellucor: P6 Red and P6 Black. I’m insanely strong on the right dose and its very noticable when I miss a dose. Along with damn near every animal supp in the line. I’ve gotten great results with them, but I feel like I’m hitting a wall and want to make more noticeable progress faster. Do you think these are a waste of money? In your experience has anyone ever benefited tremendously from using natty sups while on gear?

In addition to the test booster natty sups I’m taking Animal Cuts and Cellucors Super HD + CLK to help me drop weight.

I want to start rx to lean down aggressively and prep for a show without losing any size or strength. This will be my first cycle. I train 3x weekly (back/front/legs) +2 hours and cardio 3x weekly for roughly 500~1000kcal burned each time.
What kind of stack would you think could be a good way to help me achieve my goals (physique show) sometime late this year?

Thanks for taking time out of your day to contribute the knowledge you’ve gained over the years.
Mass[/quote]

Thank you for following, I’ll give you my ideas based on what you’ve told me. It would be great if you could post a photo so I can see where you’re at… It will make a difference otherwise I’m speculating on a starting point. Peoples ideas of REAL bf % are all over the map. Also, current diet please.

As for supplements. I’ve tried all of the big supplement brands products over the years and to be honest most of them are complete garbage… What concerns me the most about these is that the labels are very misleading in most cases. This brings me back to the point of why I am here in the first place… I discovered Biotest products long ago and it’s the only supplements I will ever spend my money on because they are actually working by themselves alone and even better when you combine them with prescription meds. For me and many clients & friends this has made a world of difference in my career. Obviously the site would never promote the use of steroids with product but I have experimented with all of the combinations and found crazy results and I will share my findings with you.

For adding lean muscle mass I like this new supplement called micro-pa, I gave it to a lot of my clients and over a 2 month period they got harder, stronger and gained a noticeable amount of muscle (some of them physique competitors) one of my female clients competes naturally and I honestly asked her if she was taking something behind my back because I never expected so much out of a supplement alone.
As for fat burners, I made a previous post about my favorites… Either go with an ECA stack, HOT-ROX, indigo. (clen & t3 for prescription choices). There is no product on the market like Indigo-3G,it just doesn’t exist and I find it extremely important especially pre contest to keep you full and allow you to keep your carb intake relatively high while still losing fat, I use it right up to the day of my show. For a natural test booster, I only use Alpha Male (during my pct). I don’t think supplements are a waste of money at all, you just need to pick and choose the right ones… The gear and the supps enhance eachother, I can’t imagine a prep without one or the other.

Now for the Rx questions:
For your first time cycle as a physique competitor (without seeing pics) I would suggest something like this:
Test-p 100mg EOD
Mast-p 100mg EOD
Anavar @60mg/day OR winstrol @ 50mg/day
Nolvadex 10mg/day
HCG 250iu every 3rd day

It’s very basic but as a first cycle it would work great for you. Please send pics first. It’s possible you can play around with Clen or t3 but for physique I don’t think you’ll have to go there, you can get hard and lean from non-rx supplements combined with your cycle.

[/quote]

Hey Shadow Pro,

Thanks again for replying! Thats very cool information and I am grateful to have it.
my diet looks like this (same thing every day)

6 egg white 2 yolks
1/2 cup oatmeal
10 almonds
teaspoon of honey
5oz lean ground beef

60g p shake

8oz chicken
1/2 cup veggies

60g p shake

10-8oz chicken or fish (fish on post workout days)
1cup white rice (post workout day)
1cup veggies

on workout days I add some carbs in before and after the workout. I don’t take any intra workout supplements and my pre is animal rage XL/Stak/MStak

I snapped a few pics and i have them uploaded to my onedrive - i shared them out for you here. http://1drv.ms/1lujW9O
just noticed I don’t have a chest shot lol, its not huge.

Thanks again for doing this. I really appreciate it.

[/quote]

First of all I need to say thank you for having the courage to post pictures here, not a lot of guys have done this yet. And for everyone reading please note that pictures are very important because I need to see with my own 2 eyes what I’m trying to work with.

I am not trying to be offensive what so ever but in order to help you I need to tell you the truth and what my thoughts are… Ok here go:

You mentioned that you are under 15% bodyfat. By looking at the pictures I have to say you are more like 15-20 and this is a problem when starting the cycle I suggested. First thing I want you to do is lower your bodyfat to around 10% naturally. A good way to see if you’re there is to be able to see somewhat clear definition throughout the whole body, and a more accurate way to do it would be with a DEXA/DXA scan and these are available in most major cities. The numbers won’t lie and you’ll see exactly where you’re at.

Wait on the cycle and invest in the supplements I suggested until your bodyfat is lowered and then we will reevaluate. Most importantly let’s get the indigo, ECA & HOT-ROX on the go. Change your cardio to 4-5 days/week to HIIT (sprints being my first choice) if you can get to a track, something like 80-100m sprint then 80-100m jog (repeat 8-10x) and obviously after a good warm up. It will not hurt leg size, if anything it will help. Do this for the next 8 weeks. If you want to get lean faster, eat your daily carbs ONLY in the workout from Plazma (for the 8 weeks before we reassess)

Meal 1 egg whites to 10, drop egg yolks, oatmeal and honey & drop ground beef to 4oz

Meal 2 lower protein to 1.5servings of MAG-10 (not regular protein shake)

Meal 3 replace chicken with white fish

Meal 4 1.5 servings of MAG-10

Meal 5 only 8 oz of chicken or fish (not 10)

Meal 6 will be your intraworkout Plazma (3 servings)

** keep the post workout white rice… So carbs will be coming from Plazma (114g), rice (50g), MAG-10(30g)

Take your fat burners pre-cardio…

Day you aren’t training, you can add one more protein meal(8oz steak) and 1tbsp mct oil and drop Plazma in those days so you’ll be low carbing on the off days.

When you get down to the desired bodyfat (minimum 10%) then we can talk about the cycle. Please keep me updated on how it goes.

[/quote]

Thanks for the critique, don’t worry my feels aren’t hurt to bad about the bf% thing, I’m terrible at guessing.

I’ll add in some more cardio (HIIT) and pick up those supplements.

Thanks for the diet, I’ll start up on that and let you know how it takes me.

MassE

352

[quote]rager wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]rager wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]rager wrote:
Hey Shadow Pro,

I have a couple more questions.

  1. DNP- I have used this before with good success and I know the protocols to follow for it to be safe. The only problem is I just finished a show 3 weeks ago and I am currently sitting at 6.5% bf via 9 site caliper test. I kept my diet tight post show and I decided to do another show in 8 weeks. I know DNP has worked well in the past for me but at 6.5% I feel it may not have much of an effect bc I dont have enough bf on me to lose. I am not on any T3, clen or cardio and I do have time on my side but I want to maximize my post show rebound which I have been and at the same time do zero cardio or dieting bc I feel like it will effect my rebound. My thought process was use the DNP to take off the extra fat I have left in a 2 week period so I dont have to diet or do cardio or any fat burners. Make sense but wanted to get your thoughts on this?

  2. You mention you take clients but not on a commercial level. Well I am looking for someone to bounce ideas off of, not necessarily giving me diets but to give me feedback and help me through the process of dieting and offseason protocols. Basically a coach but a coach williing to work with me and my ideas. Commitment is no probelm, Ive been training for over 20 years and my workouts are grueling, I have gone through so many training partners bc most are not wiling to train hard enough, even though everyone is “hardcore”. PM me if your interested, I live in So. Cal.[/quote]

  3. Yes, dnp works… I also think that the ability to have quality training sessions is literally impossible while on it. I don’t think that 8 weeks is enough time to gain any kind of significant amounts of muscle. When you say you are 6.5% bf I am thinking you are no where near stage ready, you should be under 4% on a caliper test before even thinking about going on stage so this tells me you still have a long way to go. In addition, you aren’t taking any fat burners at the moment. Doing 20-30min of cardio a day won’t hurt your rebound or cause muscle loss… So get on it! Take Clen and t3 before cardio (doesn’t have to be a high dose) and adjust your diet in order to get to the correct bodyfat that you need to be on stage.

Dnp can also cause issues for the depletion and loading process, making you look flat as hell with no way to fix it except using extreme measures. I see more cons than pros so if I were you I’d get my ass in gear and start doing a bit of cardio, get on Clen and t3, adjust my diet and train like a mother fucker. Don’t pick the easy way out. Your look going onto stage will be much better if you go this route, trust me. Usually the more conservative way is the best. I’ll leave this up to you.

  1. I appreciate your interest but I am not taking anyone on right now, you are more than welcome to run things by me on here for everyone else to read. I am very busy concentrating on my career right now so I don’t have a lot of time. [/quote]

SP,

Thank you for addressing my questions. I probably left allot out but I do compete at around 3.5% on a 9 site caliper or 2.5% via hydrostatic underwater test. So 6.5% is no where near stage ready but for me, at 8 weeks out, thats low bc I tend to tighten up real quick towards the end.

I am aware that DNP causes water retention, lethargy, etc making workouts tough, but I think with only a 10-14 day blast I can deal with it, especially since its anti catabolic and all of the lost weight comes in the form of fat and not muscle…a huge plus for me. I am also trying to catch a post show rebound and I am 3 weeks into and I have never been so big and such a low bf % and I’m sure you know that most of our muscle gains can be made during post show rebound.

So I’m kinda juggling these last few weeks, going on a HGH-SLIN blast for the last 3 weeks and continuing it until 4 weeks out, then I will cut the slin out, but for the next 8 weeks I will lower the carbs slowly out of my diet but I am going to keep the slin in pre breakfast, intra and post until 4 weeks out. I can still lose bf bc I will make the caloric deficit through a reduction of carbs later in the day.

I figure the DNP will make a modest 2% reduction in my bf but that modest reduction would be at 4.5%, I would only need to lose about 2 more pounds to get down to 3.5% and I would have 6 weeks to do that, pretty easy I would think. The DNP can cause problems loading and depleting but I would do the DNP right about now so I have 6 weeks to adjust and literally lose 2-3lbs more to get into contest shape.

I was going to employ T3 and Clen at 6 weeks out after the DNP cycle to get things moving and do NO cardio and just adjust the diet to lose the 2-3lbs. Thoughts on this approach? I hate cardio, not bc its cardio but bc it always decimates my leg size. So it would look like this:

Weeks out

8-DNP, keep insulin in at pre breakfast, intra and PWO
7-DNP, keep insulin in at pre breakfast, intra and PWO
6-Add 25mg T3 and 100mcg of Clen, add in carbs slowly to adjust for the depletion of DNP and wait for water retention to fall off to see changes and adjust accordingly
5- Cut carbs by 20%
4-Carb cycle by reducing carbs by 50% for 2 days then up to normal and back down to 2 days, etc. DROP INSULIN, with the exception of High carb days every 3rd day.
3- Carb cycle by going 3 days at 50% before high day, then repeat
2- Increase T3 to 50mg. Drop High carb days all together by doing at a 50% reduction of carbs for all 7 days, Drop Insulin
1- Start depletion, contest prep week, drop Test and HGH, and drop all fat burners on Wednesday in order to fill out.
[/quote]

Ok, so your first message wasn’t clear… I thought you were planning on doing the DNP in the last 2 weeks before the show. There are some good points and some very bad points in what you’re going to go. It’s a complex protocol and I don’t feel comfortable giving something like this without seeing who I’m dealing with.

What level is this show?

Can you please post a front and back double bicep picture? [/quote]

I just finished a pretty big show 3 weeks ago, getting a nice rebound with this new protocol and like to see what I would look like with this new look, plus I just want to do another show using a different protocol. Show is a regional show.

Its a pretty complex protocol …I totally get it and I for one would not feel comfortable giving out ANY advice if I saw this…BUT, I had to try. If you still want to help out, I’ll send photos
[/quote]

Yes, please post pictures and I’ll share my opinion.

353

[quote]Mc777 wrote:
You recommend nolvadex… Do you think that its negative effect on IGF 1 levels is important to take into consideration for the HGH free lifter? (During cycle, as an aE blocker I mean)[/quote]

It’s a very negligible amount so I wouldn’t be worried about it. Bostin Lloyd started making a big fuss out of it and now people think it’s a big deal. In the big picture it will have no effect on the gains you will make and it will keep you safe.

Personally, reducing my chances of getting gyno is a little higher on the priority list.

354

[quote]LMPCF wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]LMPCF wrote:
Dear Shadow Pro,

I Have another question I really would like to have answered. A friend of mine is on his third cycle right now after a pretty shitty second cycle (about 6 weeks gear free in between the cycles). He is in his 4th year of serious training and both sleep and nutrition are not a limiting factor.

He would like to have your feedback on the cycle and have his question answered.

It is a twelve week cycle:
week 1 - 8 100 mg test-prop e/od (inject)0
week 3 - 8 40 mg winstrol (tabs stanozolol)
week 3 - 9 Clenbuterol (2 days off, days on… etc) starting with 20 mcg, ending with 60-80 mcg)
week 9 - 12 20 mg nolvadex

He is in his 4th week right now but thinks an 8 week test-prop is a little bit long so he wants to convert it to 6 weeks with 150 mg test-prop eod. Is this ok? Should he increase/decrease dosage of his other compounds? Should he add or remove any compounds?

The only side effect he notices is decreased testicle size (he TOLD me) and a little bit of joint issues (due to the winstrol he says). Libido is not extremely high or low, little bit lower as usual.

His problem is that right know he doesn’t feel or see a lot of difference.
(Brand of the gear is Genesis, dont know if that’ll help you

Thanks a lot for your help man![/quote]

I would add 250iu of HCG eod it will help with the balls.

8 weeks on test-p is fine but it would run the nolvadex throughout the cycle 10-20mg/day

What is the goal of his cycle? It appears to me that he is attempting some sort of a cutting cycle? There’s only so much strength you can gain from 40mg of winstrol.

Tell me more about the goals and maybe I can be more helpful.[/quote]

It is a cutting cycle indeed. His intentions are to become leaner and harder.
[/quote]

If that’s the case I would definitely add masteron-p @ 100mg EOD in addition to what I offered, it will help him look leaner and harder. More advanced version would be to add tren-a into the mix, but because he’s doing crossfit it might hurt his endurance a bit. If he’s only doing it for looks then it’s a great option @ same dosage as masteron.

355

[quote]LMPCF wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]LMPCF wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]LMPCF wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]LMPCF wrote:
Also a newbie poster here, been reading and applying T-Nation knowledge since I started training however. First forum that has intrigued me to react.

To make a long story short:
I have done bodybuilding for about 3 years, gaining about 40 pounds of muscle (from 145 pounds to 185 pounds at 6’1")
At the end of my bodybuilding career is suffered a severe neck injury and kept on training for a year (sounds really stupid, but the story is more complex then that). I was in need of functional recovery and started doing crossfit, got bitten by the bug and stuck with it now. (No disrespect whatsoever to bodybuilding, see a lot of hate between the two sides but that is not me).

I finally found a magically good physical therapist so i’ll be returning to real intensity soon. My goal is to start competing at a high level as soon as possible. Competing at high level has always been a goal for me but I have been stopped my injuries multiple times. The past year I have put so goddamn much effort in becoming a perfectly functioning human being that nothing is gonna stop me now lol.

I am, and I believe the entire T-Nation community is aswell, convinced that nearly all pro crossfit athletes are on gear because of the great benefits they give towards crossfit style training. My question to you is what would you advice for a beginner cycle for crossfit?

I wont be doing it anytime soon, I’ll go clean for probably another year (i reckon it’ll take me this long before I start reaching plateus again) and then start it.

Thank you for the effort you take answering everybody’s (and hopefullly my) guestions!

[/quote]

Taking into consideration that in crossfit you need to keep your condition and endurance, I would suggest something like this.

12 WEEKS

Testosterone- if you don’t mind pinning every day I would recommend test-prop @ 75mg eod
If you don’t want to pin so often I’d say test-e @250mg/week
Masterone - mast-p @ 75mg eod OR mast-e @ 300mg/week

  • for athletes not interested in weight gain I always recommend short esters because they cause less water retention and they are in and out of your system very fast.
    Since it’s your first cycle, we don’t know how you react to drugs and what kind of side effects you’ll get. With short esters you can stop if needed and they work immediately so you’ll see results right away. Long esters take a few weeks until they are stable in your blood therefore the results would slower. Both will work great but it really depends on how often you want to inject.

Also add:
Anavar @60mg/day (much more gentle than many of the other orals out there)
OR
Winstrol @50mg/day (it will give you more strength but more aggressive than anavar)

Nolvadex 10-20mg/day (start with 10 and up it to 20 if you have any issues)
250iu HCG 2x/week
[/quote]

Sounds great, lots of thanks for your help.

Few small questions. I hear a lot of good things about growth hormone and epo. Is there any benefit to adding them (without any horrible side effects ofcourse)?

Also about the cycle. Ill do the testosterone and masterone eod (on the same day right?), take the anavar/winstrol every day and HCG twice a week. Should I do the nolvadex right from the start for the whole 12 weeks or is that something for after (thought nolvadex was something for after, but then again I only heard stuff about cycle from the most retared people on the planet so I dont believe anything they tell me).

Sorry for the noob questions, everybody has got to start learning sometime right?

P.S. Diet/sleep/recovery is all on point![/quote]

GH is great for recovery, nagging injuries and fat burning. Since you are doing crossfit and don’t want a lot of water retention I would only do low dose of 2-3iu/day. If you are under 25, save your money until you are older… You’ll get more benefits then.

Never used epo, it’s mostly used by endurance athletes (marathon runners, cyclists) I don’t know enough about it to give you information and don’t want to mislead you. Since crossfit is not just an endurance sport I wouldn’t bother, especially on a first cycle.

Yes, you are doing mast/test on the same day, HCG 2x/week and I put the nolvadex there as a preventative measure to keep you safe from gyno… Better safe than sorry!

You have made quality posts and I don’t mind any questions from beginners, I actually prefer people to get off on the right foot. So let me know if you need anything else.
[/quote]

Thanks Shadowpro! I will definitely keep this cycle in mind for next year. Any thoughts on how long a GH cycle with 2-3iu a day should last?

Good that you are honest about this, i wasnt really planning on doing EPO but was just curious.

What is the protocol when I get bad gyno for example (eg stop cycle and increase nolvadex)? And when I dont react very well to the stuff. I am not aware of the consequences when stopping in the middle of the cycle. Would like to know what I should do in such a case should it ever happen.

I have always wanted to know more about steroid use from a source that would really know what he/she is talking about. Really good to have you here bro![/quote]

You can stay on 2-3iu indefinitely as long as your budget allows it. The longer you stay on the better results you’ll see and you won’t see any negative side effects. I stay on GH year round.

As for gyno, you shouldn’t see any symptoms with the cycle I gave you… It’s very light. There’s a few options u can do… Either up the nolva to 40mg/day or 1mg of arimidex every 3rd day. Also, keep in mind that masteron has mild anti estrogen properties and this will help as well. Don’t just stop the cycle, if anything taper down slowly. Your dosages will be very low so I don’t think you’ll have any issues. NEVER just stop.
[/quote]

Thanks, my first problem would be getting my hands on some QUALITY GH, not some chinese bullshit. I am also gonna try and find a channel in my university where i can get my stuff tested, who knows ill find something!

I already reckoned the chance would be minimal but still, my greatest fear of doing cycles is getting titties. It wont kill my self asteem or anything but i wouldnt be able to crossfit with no tshirt on and that would raise questions lol. Cant let anybody see the gyno, as my coach would immediately know whats going on and out of jealousy he would just go around and tell everyone.

Thanks for the tips, wasn’t really planning on stopping the cycle immediately EVER, now that I know I will never lol.

If any questions pop into my mind ill be back!

PS great idea for the paypal account, you would deserve a donation from me to. [/quote]

That’s a great idea to check your gear at the university if you have access. To prevent the gyno just start at 20mg daily and I reallllyyyy doubt anything would happen with this dose.

Thanks again for the offer about the paypal account but this lifestyle gives me an option to make a living doing something I love and I feel committed to giving back to the fitness community, plus I’m enjoying this!

356

[quote]LMPCF wrote:
Lol, immediatly after submitting my last post I have a new question for you.

I hear you saying a lot about Plazma, microPA and MAG-10 for the bodybuilders. I think that the plazma probably isnt a good idea for me because i do not want to get pumped during wods, thats death for every crossfit workout.

But what are you ideas on supplementation? Now I am taking:
Protein Isolate (throughout the day, just depends on how much protein I get from my meals)
Mixture of fast and slow release protein (dynamatize) (before bed)
Vitamine D3, (every morning 5000IU)
Multivitamins, Fish Oil (every morning and evening) (for the vitamins the regular dose is 3 pills a day, i take one morning, one evening)
ZMA (every evening)
I do have some pre workout but I only take this when I am during pure strength training, shit doesnt go well with endurance lol.

Any advice on this?

What you take on carbs or not. During my bodybuilding phase I ate over 800 grams of carbs a day (not 800 grams of rice, just 800 grams of pure carbs lol). This sounds crazy but I gained weight like crazy and dropped fat doing this (see image).

Since I am doing crossfit I have tried the paleo diet. Which means I can not have rice, pasta, outmeal or other carbsource except for fruit and vegetables. My calories constist mainly of fats and protein.

I havent really trained intensively on this diet so I dont know how I this diet effects me during that. I do however notice that I have gained some fat since (could also be because of the lower intensity training) even though I eat like 3000 calories less then i did. Carbs boost my already fast metabolism even more, especially because I time my meals perfectly each day.

Thanks bro![/quote]

You look great! I’m impressed with how lean you are and you are carrying a decent amount of muscle. For you to start a cycle right now would be a great idea, you will benefit very much from this especially considering your starting point. You will become much stronger, bigger, fuller and even harder than you already are.

These will be your new best friends regarding supplementation:
MAG-10 - the hydrolyzed casein is so much more effective than regular isolate protein, it’s making your body more responsive to protein and able to break down and absorb other types of protein more efficiently. It encourages muscle growth, prevents catabolism and seems to help the immune system. For a crossfitter who is doing a lot of endurance workout I would be sipping on this throughout the day and intra workout.
Micro-pa - improves strength and strength endurance. All of the benefits cater perfectly to a crossfit training program. 2 months after I started the micro-pa (only thing I changed) my deadlifts went from 405 for 8 reps to 405 for 15 reps. I felt improvement in my strength and endurance in most of my exercises. It allowed me to add extra reps on weights where I was previously stuck.

I would add a multimineral to my supplement stack, it’s another one of the best tools for recovery… I always do it post workout and keep the ZMA before bed. You can replace your multivitamin with superfood in the morning and for fish oil definitely keep it in there(Flameout is a good choice because it’s a good mix with excellent ratios)

Diet question: go back on high carbs, right now! If you were eating 800g of carbs and still gaining size and burning fat then your body’s insulin sensitivity is very good and your body type responds great to carbs. This is a great thing, most people would kill to have this trait. By the look of your picture and information you’ve given me I would say your diet should be high carbs and protein with low fat. Stay away from this paleo diet, it’s not for you… It will just hurt your training and your physique. Someone who is training with high intensity (like yourself) carbs are necessary especially when your body is reacting so well to them. Slowly bring your carbs back up and lower the fats. Have the majority of your carbs in the 6hour time frame around your workout. In your strength workouts where pump wouldn’t be an issue you can use a small serving amount of Plazma (1-2 servings) it will give you more fuel to lift heavier weights. You can also add indigo to help your body absorb all of the carbs and to stay very lean along with the cycle.

Your starting point is very good so I’m very interested to see the progress you make with the cycle combined with these supplements. Going back to a high carb diet will give you a huge jump in your performance and physique. Excited to see the results, keep us posted.

357

[quote]Dianaballs wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]Dianaballs wrote:
cool, thanks for your help

actually, another thing if you dont mind, what would you reccomend to a powerlifter wanting to drop as much fat as possible in say 16-20 weeks, while maintaining strength, if i gain some i suppose i wont complain ha. id like to get my conditioning back to where it was so not sure on tren. also not a huge amount of cash at the moment. thanks![/quote]

If you want to drop as much fat, diet is you ultimate key here. Make sure your diet is super clean and your intraworkout nutrition in tact. Carbs and calories in general should be relatively high on your heavy lifting days BUT in the off or light days you should lower the carbs and calories significantly to make these “fat burning days”

I will build you a cycle but I need to know some information about you first. How many cycles? (And what did they include) have you used tren before? (Any issues with it?). How many times a week do you train? Can you afford GH in a low dose like 2-4iu/day?[/quote]

unfortunately not! its something ive wanted to try for a while. i know all about the dieting side being the most important, i should have said “will allow me to keep strength while running a crazy calorie deficit and not lose muscle!” sorry! this will be my 3rd blast, first 2 were bulks. just straight test and tbol for both, had great results.tried dbol the first one, (yes i now know dbol when knowing youre gyno prone is retarded, unfortunately didnt know then!ha) but it made my nipples burn.

i havent run tren, thats something i really want to also. i suppose i could work on my conditioning for the first 10 weeks and then add tren the last 6? i train 4 days a week, bench,squat, day off, bench assistance, off, deadlift, off,fairly high volume. thank you so much for your help[/quote]

Keeping budget in mind, here is a 16 week cycle:

Weeks 1-8
Test-e @ 500-1000mg/week (depending what you did before, bump it up a little from the last time)
Mast-p @ 150mg EOD
Weeks 9-16
Test-e (same)
Tren-a @ 150mg EOD or 75mg ED

  • if you want to add and oral to this you can use anavar (60mg) or winstrol (50mg) for the first 10 weeks and halo(20-60mg) for the 6 weeks. The halo will make you very strong but very aggressive so start low and see how you react. The orals are just an option, you can run the injectables by themselves and they will work fine.

Definitely work on your condition in the first 8 weeks and run nolva with this at 20mg everyday. Make sure your taking a good multimineral for recovery and keep most carbs intraworkout.

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[quote]dutchie1 wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]dutchie1 wrote:
Thanks alot for all your effort shadow, in this entire thread

  1. So far no one has asked your opinion on short cycles (2 weekers), do you think they are acceptable for individuals who prefer to be “under the radar” or whose goal is to recover natural test production as quick as possible? (at least i haven’t fuond any in here)

  2. Do you think it’s okay to run a cycle without testosterone as a base? I’ve heard only of rare cases (in particular) bill roberts claiming trenbolone Dianabol been his favorite bulking cycle. Since Dianabol is a testosterone derivative and is aromatizable (solving low estrogen problem) with HCG in the mix for natural testosterone would such a cycle be alright?

Some people claim test increases side effects in other compounds so that’s why many go with low test high tren (the most extreme case i heard of if a person doing 10mg/d test prop with 210mg/d tren ace … strangely this guy mentioned getting very little side effects even at such a dose and having compendious libido) and why i’d really like to know your opinion on the subject

Again, thanks for your effort shadow[/quote]

  1. They can work to an extent but you won’t get anything close to a real planned out cycle that lasts about 8-16weeks. Shorts cycle I would do on short esters is 8 weeks long. If you’re keen on doing one then your best choice would be something like test-suspension pre-workout, tren-a and/or an oral.

I wouldn’t recommend this because I think if you want to do something like this, at least do it right. The gains you will get from a 2 week cycle are very minimal and most likely won’t hold because your body doesn’t have enough time to adjust. Human body likes homeostasis and a sudden change like this wouldn’t be your best option.

  1. It can be done but wouldn’t be by first choice. I think tren running without test would be very aggressive mentally for people. I personally feel that running test with tren helps balance the mental sides that the tren can give. Is there logic? Yes there is, but it’s just not my first choice and I don’t think it’s optimal for gains. Again, it comes down to your goal. If you want a hard and dry look and you don’t care about sides and possible low libido then high tren and low test would allow you to achieve this look.
    [/quote]

I wasn’t planning to either of these cycles anytime soon, like i said Bill claims it’s his favorite cycle and i wondered what is your pov on it[/quote]

Like I said, it can work but it’s not my first choice. If you have any questions about any cycle you do plan on doing, let me know!

359

[quote]fighter87 wrote:
Any tip-suggestion to improve the arms? frequency?

thanks a lot![/quote]

It’s individual but most people wouldn’t have a problem hitting arms 3x a week. It think high frequency can definitely help for lacking body parts. Make sure you changing exercises reps ranges and training techniques… Add variety to every workout. The exact same workout 3x/week won’t get you anywhere.

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@tigwelder85

You asked: What is the issue with doing a cycle at 15-20% body fat?

In a case where someone is 20% bodyfat it means they either have no knowledge of nutrition or they have complete neglect as to what they are consuming. Most often people are looking for an easy way out, but without proper nutrtition then drugs aren’t going have a lot of benefit.

Studies have shown that hypertrophy on a lower bodyfat is much more significant than when bf is over 12%

If diet and and training are not 100% then you have no business starting a cycle as you have a lot of potential to improve naturally before touching anything.