Q&A with Shadow Pro

[Shadow_Pro]

[quote]LMPCF wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]LMPCF wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]LMPCF wrote:
Also a newbie poster here, been reading and applying T-Nation knowledge since I started training however. First forum that has intrigued me to react.

To make a long story short:
I have done bodybuilding for about 3 years, gaining about 40 pounds of muscle (from 145 pounds to 185 pounds at 6’1")
At the end of my bodybuilding career is suffered a severe neck injury and kept on training for a year (sounds really stupid, but the story is more complex then that). I was in need of functional recovery and started doing crossfit, got bitten by the bug and stuck with it now. (No disrespect whatsoever to bodybuilding, see a lot of hate between the two sides but that is not me).

I finally found a magically good physical therapist so i’ll be returning to real intensity soon. My goal is to start competing at a high level as soon as possible. Competing at high level has always been a goal for me but I have been stopped my injuries multiple times. The past year I have put so goddamn much effort in becoming a perfectly functioning human being that nothing is gonna stop me now lol.

I am, and I believe the entire T-Nation community is aswell, convinced that nearly all pro crossfit athletes are on gear because of the great benefits they give towards crossfit style training. My question to you is what would you advice for a beginner cycle for crossfit?

I wont be doing it anytime soon, I’ll go clean for probably another year (i reckon it’ll take me this long before I start reaching plateus again) and then start it.

Thank you for the effort you take answering everybody’s (and hopefullly my) guestions!

[/quote]

Taking into consideration that in crossfit you need to keep your condition and endurance, I would suggest something like this.

12 WEEKS

Testosterone- if you don’t mind pinning every day I would recommend test-prop @ 75mg eod
If you don’t want to pin so often I’d say test-e @250mg/week
Masterone - mast-p @ 75mg eod OR mast-e @ 300mg/week

• for athletes not interested in weight gain I always recommend short esters because they cause less water retention and they are in and out of your system very fast.
  Since it’s your first cycle, we don’t know how you react to drugs and what kind of side effects you’ll get. With short esters you can stop if needed and they work immediately so you’ll see results right away. Long esters take a few weeks until they are stable in your blood therefore the results would slower. Both will work great but it really depends on how often you want to inject.

Also add:
Anavar @60mg/day (much more gentle than many of the other orals out there)
OR
Winstrol @50mg/day (it will give you more strength but more aggressive than anavar)

Nolvadex 10-20mg/day (start with 10 and up it to 20 if you have any issues)
250iu HCG 2x/week
[/quote]

Sounds great, lots of thanks for your help.

Few small questions. I hear a lot of good things about growth hormone and epo. Is there any benefit to adding them (without any horrible side effects ofcourse)?

Also about the cycle. Ill do the testosterone and masterone eod (on the same day right?), take the anavar/winstrol every day and HCG twice a week. Should I do the nolvadex right from the start for the whole 12 weeks or is that something for after (thought nolvadex was something for after, but then again I only heard stuff about cycle from the most retared people on the planet so I dont believe anything they tell me).

Sorry for the noob questions, everybody has got to start learning sometime right?

P.S. Diet/sleep/recovery is all on point![/quote]

GH is great for recovery, nagging injuries and fat burning. Since you are doing crossfit and don’t want a lot of water retention I would only do low dose of 2-3iu/day. If you are under 25, save your money until you are older… You’ll get more benefits then.

Never used epo, it’s mostly used by endurance athletes (marathon runners, cyclists) I don’t know enough about it to give you information and don’t want to mislead you. Since crossfit is not just an endurance sport I wouldn’t bother, especially on a first cycle.

Yes, you are doing mast/test on the same day, HCG 2x/week and I put the nolvadex there as a preventative measure to keep you safe from gyno… Better safe than sorry!

You have made quality posts and I don’t mind any questions from beginners, I actually prefer people to get off on the right foot. So let me know if you need anything else.
[/quote]

Thanks Shadowpro! I will definitely keep this cycle in mind for next year. Any thoughts on how long a GH cycle with 2-3iu a day should last?

Good that you are honest about this, i wasnt really planning on doing EPO but was just curious.

What is the protocol when I get bad gyno for example (eg stop cycle and increase nolvadex)? And when I dont react very well to the stuff. I am not aware of the consequences when stopping in the middle of the cycle. Would like to know what I should do in such a case should it ever happen.

I have always wanted to know more about steroid use from a source that would really know what he/she is talking about. Really good to have you here bro![/quote]

You can stay on 2-3iu indefinitely as long as your budget allows it. The longer you stay on the better results you’ll see and you won’t see any negative side effects. I stay on GH year round.

As for gyno, you shouldn’t see any symptoms with the cycle I gave you… It’s very light. There’s a few options u can do… Either up the nolva to 40mg/day or 1mg of arimidex every 3rd day. Also, keep in mind that masteron has mild anti estrogen properties and this will help as well. Don’t just stop the cycle, if anything taper down slowly. Your dosages will be very low so I don’t think you’ll have any issues. NEVER just stop.

[Shadow_Pro]

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
that last post raises an interesting point.

Shadow, what do you think about tapering down into PCT? I’m a fan personally but it seems people like me are in the minority.

For example, I usually run my test a week or two longer than my other injectables, then I’ll taper down the dose by 200mg or so a week until I get to a TRT dose, which I run for two weeks, adding SERMs the second week then running the SERMs for another month or so when I’m off the test (5 weeks usually including a week where I taper SERMs down). I blast some hCG while I’m tapering down to wake the boys back up, and continue AI use right up until SERM therapy.

Thoughts?[/quote]

I like this idea a lot!!! I actually use a similar approach with some of my clients. The body doesn’t like drastic changes so anything done gradually is usually a good idea.
[/quote]

Finally some validation of my taper! People have been telling me for years how pointless it is!

Great minds think alike. Thanks big guy.
[/quote]

95% of the people have no idea what they’re talking about… You know this!!
I am not saying I know everything but I’m just giving my advice based on my own personal experience, which is A LOT. I’m glad you shared this! I’ve seen it work time after time with so many clients.
[/quote]

haha, very true! I consider myself part of the 95%[/quote]

You seem like you have done a lot of research and doing pretty well which is more than most people can say. We’ve always got something new to learn.

[Shadow_Pro]

[quote]thor159 wrote:
About T3, what would be the precautions while taking it and what else to take together to minimize or avoid side effects?

How long should I take to get to the maximum dose? And at the end of the cycle, should I tapper down the dose or can I simply stop it where it is? How long of a break then to be able to start taking it again?

What’s your intake on intermittent fasting by the way?

Cheers.[/quote]

If you’re taking it safely you shouldn’t have any major side effects, nausea or temporary hair loss would be a rare case. If you are experiencing headaches, irritability, nervousness and sweating (related to the t3) then you are taking too much. It’s unlikely that you will experience these but in a rare case you need to back off… Any underground t3 is not advised because the dosages aren’t very accurate and you can run into problems from overdosing especially in a liquid form.

As for maximum dosage, it’s individual as I said before… Always start with 12.5mcg and slowly build up every week. Just because my maximum is 75mcg doesn’t mean yours will be, it could be 25… Could be 75, it all depends on how you react and this is why we build it up. Give yourself about 3-4 weeks to taper down,do not just stop! The last week of tapering down should be when you are back to 12.5mcg. The body doesn’t respond well to drastic changes so I would highly advise to do it this way.

I wouldn’t do it more than 16 weeks straight ( 12 is more advisable) take at least 8-10 weeks off before starting again.

I don’t have many thoughts about intermittent fasting except that it’s more of a marketing scheme than anything. It’s an extreme method without a lot of logic. The only fasting I do is during my 8 hours of sleep and even then I’ll often wake up and drink MAG-10 in the middle of the night.

[Shadow_Pro]

[quote]alvertos wrote:
thanks man i think i have a good source,it is expensive for sure,should i take it in 2 doses morning and evening?also can i begin with low dose and up every week?also doyou think i need to worry about any hair loss?
thanks again.[/quote]

You can start with a low dose and then increase it after 2 weeks. Start with 40 then bump it up to 60
Anavar

30mg before workout & 30mg before bed.(20 & 20 for the 1st two weeks)

If you aren’t prone to hair loss then you shouldn’t see any problems here… If you are going to lose your hair anyways due to genetic factors then it’s not the anavar that will make the difference.

[system]

[quote]yamar1 wrote:

[quote]BUDs wrote:

[quote]yamar1 wrote:
You keep mentioning Nolvadex for extrogen control but nolvadex is not an aromatase inhibitor. Simply put, it does not stop test conversion to estrogen at all, it just stops estrogen from binding to breast receptors.

What is the reasoning for using Nolva over something like Armidex? On high doses of test without Armidex, estrogen will be off the charts.[/quote]

Not if it can’t bind to the receptors [/quote]

You just don’t get gyno. I Have done blood work using only Nolva and estrogen was high. Armidex will stop the conversion completely, Nolvadex will not.
[/quote]

No shit but the Nolva will bind to the receptors in place of the e2

[Shadow_Pro]

[quote]trenblood wrote:
Hi there Shadow Pro, i was so intrigue with this thread, that i had to sign up and ask a couple questions.

1: What are you thought on low test and high tren or other anabolics?

2: Do you always need to run test with every cycle ?

3: I see you mention to have caber on hand when using tren, for what reason since tren does not seem to prolactin but progestin ?

4: what are you thoughts on Dennis James, people calling him one of the best trainer, but in 2012 he was having a hard time getting ready for a show that he needed the help of gorge farah, and 2 years latter hes the best because ramy brought him fame ?

Thank for your time.[/quote]

Welcome and thanks for joining us.

1. When you are dieting for a show, low test and high tren can work but there’s a big chance it would make you feel like shit. Tren is a hard compound by itself and doing it alone or with a small amount of test might make the sides even worse. I usually drop my test 2 weeks out from the show due to water retention and to get a dryer look. I feel like shit during the time, due to the diet and the drugs together.

2. I DO! Not everyone has to. Some people are just fine to run a light oral cycle. It depends on the overall goal.

3. Caber helps with a lot of the tren sides physically and mentally. I didn’t say for everyone to take it, but it’s not a bad thing to have on hand while your on tren or deca

4. I won’t bash a fellow colleague of mine. His knowledge is limited and I don’t personally like the systems he uses. Almost everyone at these levels uses a coach, they have all of the knowledge and know-how from experience but everyone needs an objective eye in the last days and weeks before a show. Big Ramy is just a freak! No matter what he does or who he works with he’ll be a freak.

[Shadow_Pro]

[quote]yamar1 wrote:
You keep mentioning Nolvadex for extrogen control but nolvadex is not an aromatase inhibitor. Simply put, it does not stop test conversion to estrogen at all, it just stops estrogen from binding to breast receptors.

What is the reasoning for using Nolva over something like Armidex? On high doses of test without Armidex, estrogen will be off the charts.[/quote]

You don’t want to suppress estrogen completely, and using too much arimidex will do this. You need a little bit of estrogen in your system to create balance. I always suggest nolvadex first because for myself and many others it works great by itself but there are people who prefer and respond better to the use arimidex. I am usually using masteron in my cycle and I think both of these together keep a good balance to control estrogen without overly suppressing it.

Personally, I have never had any problems with estrogen levels when I had them tested. I have heard about this happening before and it should be monitored regularly(which I can see you are doing)it’s rare but not impossible for this to happen and it can also depend on what else you’re taking in your cycle.

[Shadow_Pro]

[quote]rober69_rc wrote:
Hi Shadow.

First, thank you for all your information. This is the best thread ever.

I have got a doubt about when you are on cutting diet. I have read that you prefer intake 2/3 all your carbs intra workout but you use this method also on cutting or only when you are bulking?

Thank you very much and I apologize for my english, I know is not too good.[/quote]

When I’m cutting for a show I definitely use this method because I’m eating less carbs throughout the day at this time then I am able to consume 2/3 in my workout. In an off season I would do maybe 1/2 or less intraworkout and the rest would be in a time frame(about 6 hours) around the workout,mostly being pre, intra and post (simply because consuming so much intraworkout wouldn’t be possible and the highest I ever did was about 300)

Happy you like the thread.

[Shadow_Pro]

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:
Shadow… Thanks too for helping my questions…!
[/quote]

You’re welcome, the reason I didn’t recommend caber is because im afraid after being shut down for so long that if you go on it might help a little bit while you’re on it but then shut you down even worse. That’s why I advise to try the more conservative route for this case.
[/quote]
You think another strong PCT is best at this point?
Also, What about my current TT levels… they look good. Is there more to recover with PCT than just TT levels and the other sex howmones ( LH, Fsh…ect)…?

[/quote]

Here’s what I think. Every strong PCT that you are doing will improve your libido. It’s not that I want to increase your current testosterone level, but it will do that as well. I want to give your libido another push and it should stay there or very close to good levels. It’s still my best option. The Cialis will also help a lot with this combo and I know this because I have had guys improve in similar situations (although not as extreme)

I’m not against caber, but if something goes wrong again after you go off then it might crash you even more.

Did you check your prolactin levels? And what other testing have you had recently?

Also, remember your not 20 years old anymore… These problems can sprout up at any point after our peak years. Guys always expect to come off juice and expect to be horny as a dog like they were when they were 18 but sadly it never happens.
[/quote]

Shadow… Thanks man…! You are so very helpful…
Yes, prolactin is in range… I did manipulate it down and up with zero improvement…
I have had all realavent tests performed and once past the 7 mo th mark each one was not just in range, but optimal… I’ve had Scally, Crisler and a few “experts” look at them values…
Scally says give it more time… Crisler says at 18 mo THS things should clear up… A few experts say 2 years is possible and they’ve seen it with deca…
I was 40 when the cycle was tab and all was good… Libido was as strong as it was at 20… No joke…!
The cycle destroyed the libido 100%…
When I use cialis, your right, it does feel like an increase…
If you have any further suggestions, please let me know…
I’m here in Cali… Same time zone…!
[/quote]

Shadow,
Let me add some details about the cycle since I neglected to do so already…
When I started the cycle I was unknowledgable and taking advise from the wrong crowd…
The cycle was
week 1-20 test E 550
week 1-20 deca 450
week 1-20 dbol 40 mg ed

Yes, I ran the d-bol for 20 weeks…! ( liver was still in range…!)
Everything was stopped at the same time…2 weeks out was Tamox 20 e/d
4 weeks out was clomid 50 e/d along with the tamox for 3 more weeks…
Finally at 7 months out all sex hormones were in range an optimized…
Libido was not recovered so on the advise of a Dr. I went back on test E 500 e/w for 4 weeks…Zero improvement in libido during that time.( bloods were taken to prove product was good) Was also on HCG 250 Iu every 3rd day during that cycle. With no improvement I ended the cycle and ran A proper Pct with HCG @ 500iu every 3 days for 3 weeks with clomid and nolvadex for 4 weeks following…
The mood and energy was all repaired, but libido and weak erections remained…
If I run another PCT as you suggested, I am worried about E2 while blasting the HGC… can I run adex during that pct as the tamox and I dont do well…Or just lower my tamox dosing?
Thanks Boss…
[/quote]

I think the biggest mistake you made(besides the cycle itself that wasn’t built very well) is the PCT you did after you went back on test(for 4 weeks) wasn’t aggressive enough. You can definitely run Adex instead of nolva on the pct I gave you, either one will work. Start with 1mg every 3rd day and up it to every other day if needed.

After reading this I’m pretty sure your libido will improve, keep me posted.
[/quote]
Thank you Shadow pro…
Final question on the subject…
If left alone, with enough time is recovery likely to happen? Is the Aggressive pct a way to just make it happen quicker…?
Thank you for all your attention with this… I will keep you posted my man…!
Very kind regards.
[/quote]

If you leave it alone there’s a possibility it can get better, I can’t guarantee anything. I think with the aggressive pct that I suggested gives you nothing to lose… You will feel better while on it and you will have a chance of a quicker recovery. My pleasure to help and yes, keep me posted.

[Shadow_Pro]

[quote]Dianaballs wrote:
hi, and thanks for doing this!

i have heard that stacking say 5-600 test and 400 deca can make you more likely to develop gyno, even though deca doesnt aromatise itself. is this true? im gyno prone but can get away with 750+ mgs of test with 12.5 mgs of aromasin ED perfectly. thanks[/quote]

It won’t make you more prone to gyno but the reason that you get gyno from test is related to estrogen whereas deca is progesterone related. If you are using deca or tren keep caber on hand incase any sides are sprouting up. I would consider this a low to medium dose.

Can you advise me why you think you’re prone to gyno? Tell me exactly what you were doing when you saw symptoms.

[Shadow_Pro]

[quote]CxTucker wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:
If you are interested, I would be happy to help you find someone in your area. Just let me know. Good question by the way, I suppose I should have given more detail before.
[/quote]

Is there a specific way to search for these doctors? Something specific to look for?[/quote]

Google?? Look up naturopaths in your local area and call them to see if they offer IV therapy. If you are consulting with the doctor let them know what you’ve been doing and try to have recent bloodwork done so they can assess you.

[CxTucker]

When taking orals with a shorter half life (Ex: DBol), do you split up the doses throughout the day, or take it all at once to control blood stability?

[Shadow_Pro]

[quote]CxTucker wrote:
When taking orals with a shorter half life (Ex: DBol), do you split up the doses throughout the day, or take it all at once to control blood stability?[/quote]

Either way will work fine but I prefer to take mine all at once pre-workout with my insulin.

[CxTucker]

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]CxTucker wrote:
When taking orals with a shorter half life (Ex: DBol), do you split up the doses throughout the day, or take it all at once to control blood stability?[/quote]

Either way will work fine but I prefer to take mine all at once pre-workout with my insulin. [/quote]

That’s been the plan; appreciate all the help Shadow.

[Dianaballs]

cool thats what i thought, then i heard otherwise so got worried haha. im keeping it reasonable until i know how i react, never ran deca before. may move that test up to 750 ha. now that i think about it thats probably what will happen even if i start out meaning to do 500…

i know im prone because ive had it since puberty!haha

thanks for your help!

[Shadow_Pro]

[quote]Dianaballs wrote:

i know im prone because ive had it since puberty!haha

thanks for your help![/quote]

Yes, i do suppose that would be a good clue! Lol. Good luck and I hope it goes well. Moving it up to 750 is fine but that’s ultimately up to you.

[Dianaballs]

cool, thanks for your help

actually, another thing if you dont mind, what would you reccomend to a powerlifter wanting to drop as much fat as possible in say 16-20 weeks, while maintaining strength, if i gain some i suppose i wont complain ha. id like to get my conditioning back to where it was so not sure on tren. also not a huge amount of cash at the moment. thanks!

[dutchie1]

Thanks alot for all your effort shadow, in this entire thread

1. So far no one has asked your opinion on short cycles (2 weekers), do you think they are acceptable for individuals who prefer to be “under the radar” or whose goal is to recover natural test production as quick as possible? (at least i haven’t fuond any in here)

2. Do you think it’s okay to run a cycle without testosterone as a base? I’ve heard only of rare cases (in particular) bill roberts claiming trenbolone Dianabol been his favorite bulking cycle. Since Dianabol is a testosterone derivative and is aromatizable (solving low estrogen problem) with HCG in the mix for natural testosterone would such a cycle be alright?

Some people claim test increases side effects in other compounds so that’s why many go with low test high tren (the most extreme case i heard of if a person doing 10mg/d test prop with 210mg/d tren ace … strangely this guy mentioned getting very little side effects even at such a dose and having compendious libido) and why i’d really like to know your opinion on the subject

Again, thanks for your effort shadow

[Batman00]

Bill Roberts also mentioned he likes Mast and HCG as he gets into his 50’s and older. Easier on system with some test and tren blasts as needed. What is the effect of just running Mast and HCG?

[rober69_rc]

Thanks so much Shadow I value your effort.

About the question done previously only one more thing. If you have not access to buy Plazma, which carb you’d prefer to take intra workout, dextrose or vitargo?

thank you very much!