With respect to the Swiss Bar, how have/do you use it in your own training? Do you use it more for overhead or flat work or even arm work?
[quote]LoRez wrote:
With respect to the Swiss Bar, how have/do you use it in your own training? Do you use it more for overhead or flat work or even arm work?[/quote]
I use it for variety in benching and pressing accessory work. I basically try to never do the same accessory work twice, so a different bar helps with mileage, especially since it has multiple grips.
I think it’s really money on floor press. It feels incredibly “right” with that movement. Benching with it is a bitch, but sometimes that’s a good thing. The biggest issue is unracking it and ensuring that you grip at the right spot is really vital, otherwise it will tilt one way or the other.
For overhead work, it feels really comfortable. You just have to keep in mind that the bar is going to be more forward on your chest versus high up on your collar bone. Since I have jacked up shoulders, this isn’t really an issue, but other people with greater flexibility need to make sure they don’t clock themselves in the chin on the way up.
I HAVE used it for curls and extensions, but never really regularly. Only when I’m burnt out and want to do something light, and then I just use the bar.
One kind of “dirty” use for the bar I had was when I was running DoggCrapp, I use it to help stretch my triceps. I would hold onto the far handles with one hand, have the bar behind my back, and pull as hard as I could with the other hand.
I have the swiss bar and what Pwn says is also my experience. Flat Bench for me with it is ok but yeah floor press it my fav, especially with chains. Incline bench with it is pretty good. and LOL at OHP. I have given myself a bloody nose fom smacking my face with the bar. lol
I am also fond of tossing it on top of the power rack and doing pull ups with it. I also toss it in the J hooks at various heights to do inverted rows, aka fat man pull ups.
My dirty uses … I’ve used it to do ZERCHER squats. That nice wide area of the bar really lets you put the weight on the bar without killing the forearms. And I’ve used it to hold my feet when doing natural GHR. My weirdest use is I’ve done light front squats with it too becuae I also have shit shoulders so I place one side on the front delts and can hold the other with my thumbs. Kind of like using lifting straps on a straight bar when doing front squats but since the bar is fat, it feels nice on the gimp shoulders.
I forgot about incline pressing. Your observation is totally true, I like incline with the swiss bar more than with a straight bar. I’ve tried putting mine on top of the powerrack, but it just wants to rotate one direction or the other whenever I try it, and I feel like I spend more time correcting than contracting.
Zerchers are a great idea. If I ever try out the lift, I’ll give it a go with that. That, or my log.
Thanks guys. I’m still on the fence about buying one, but that helps quite a bit.
Managed this yesterday
After 6 shoulder dislocations, I am happy with this. Proof my arms are 400 miles long, haha.
Hit an ugly 650lb deadlift at 200lbs
Not sure if you’ve ever covered this, but I’d be curious to see a day’s worth of eating for you, both dieting and gaining. I read your Mythical Strength diet right-up, and I feel like your daily setup would be simple, fool-proof, and effective, just like your training. Thanks
I appreciate you reading the blog and seeing that post. My diet isn’t really all that precise these days, but I’ll go over what’s been an average day for me for the past few months.
0630:
2 scoops of whey protein in 16oz of skim milk
1100:
Large mixed greens salad w/bacon, eggs as toppings and full fat ranch salad dressing
12-16oz of some sort of meat
1730:
2 servings of broccoli in a butter sauce
12-16oz of some sort of meat
1930:
Post workout shake of 2 scoops of whey protein in 16oz of skim milk
2030:
1.5 cups of frozen blueberries w/whipped cream, occasionally mix in a spoonful of natural PB
Supplements before bed
5 fish oils
2 glucosamines
Serving of creatine monohydrate
Not listed is a ton of diet soda, just because I’m an addict
Right now I’ve been eating like that to very slowly drop a few pounds for a strongman comp. I’m down about 3-4lbs in 4 weeks. On a more aggressive cut, I’ll eat like I mentioned in the article. If I don’t have a competition coming up, I tend to eat like the above, but I’ll throw in some more junk through out the day. In between meals I’ll eat a recess peanut butter cup 2 pack, and at lunch I’ll probably have a slice of pizza and a cookie. It’s something I think of as intentional dietary weakpoints, because usually, when I include those things, my weight will still remain about the same, if not VERY slowly climb up, such that, when I have a competition coming up, I just cut out the junk and easily lose the weight I need without getting too aggressive.
I haven’t tried to intentionally gain weight for about 7 years now. Usually, when I try that, I just put on fat without proportional strength to match. I’ll end up gaining some weight after comps, but it’s usually right back to a baseline of about 202lbs.
EDIT: Oh yeah, wanted to mention, the one day where I eat completely differently is on my deadlift day. This is a very high carb, high junk day, regardless of my bodyweight goals. I always train this day on Saturday, because it’s a long training day and it allows me to eat how I want and recover as I need. This is my day for that.
0800
2 scoops of whey in skim milkk
0900
Bacon and chorizo breakfast burrito w/eggs and sour cream (no filler)
-No idea on the exacts on this, it’s just huge. Get it from a local place.
1230
Big Taco Bell meal
-The base of this meal changes depending on my mood, but I always eat it with a side of Nachos Bel Grande
1530
Post workout shake
1.5 cups blueberries w/whipped cream and pb
1730
Footlong meatball sub w/double meat on flatbread at subway
Very cool. Basically just hammer the protein and fill in the rest with healthy foods, not revolutionary, just effective. I usually try to keep more carbs around my workouts simply because my performance sucks on very low carbs.
In my opinion (although I’m still very much a newb), I honestly think most trainees, especially natural, would benefit from your “train to be awesome” programming (i.e. Big, strong, conditioned, all-around athletic), and I’ve arranging my assistance work similar to your Mythical Strength template. Training for both size and strength has been the smartest training decision I’ve made. Probably my favorite training blog I’ve come across.
[quote]kollak95 wrote:
Very cool. Basically just hammer the protein and fill in the rest with healthy foods, not revolutionary, just effective. I usually try to keep more carbs around my workouts simply because my performance sucks on very low carbs.
In my opinion (although I’m still very much a newb), I honestly think most trainees, especially natural, would benefit from your “train to be awesome” programming (i.e. Big, strong, conditioned, all-around athletic), and I’ve arranging my assistance work similar to your Mythical Strength template. Training for both size and strength has been the smartest training decision I’ve made. Probably my favorite training blog I’ve come across.[/quote]
Glad to hear you’ve been able to benefit from the approach. It’s one of those things that took me years to figure out, but once I did it became pretty obvious. It’s hard to overcome such a loud volume on the subject, but I’ve learned that in most cases, the loudest voices are the most incorrect ones.
For the conversation on carbs around workouts, consider reading into John Anderson’s “Deep Water Nutrition” concepts. Pretty crazy stuff. Guy says he hasn’t had a carb in 10 years, and eats tons of meat.
I appreciate having you as a reader. It means a lot.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]kgildner wrote:
Great idea for a thread! I’ve always wanted to pick your about your programming for the deadlift. I know you’ve use a graduated ROM training method with your conventional-style pulls, but how does your loading and volume/intensity look?
Gonna grab my popcorn and wait for some great insight from this thread.[/quote]
I don’t use percentages or anything to determine loading. I generally start a cycle weight a weight I can hit for 12 reps in a single set of 7 high mat pulls (7 pavers per side). I train the mat pull each week, using 1 less paver each time, until I am pulling off the floor (I skip the “1 mat high” week and go straight from 2 mats to the floor, just because 1 mat high seems a little too close to floor height, and my goal here is to spend as little time pulling from the floor as I can). Usually, on this very first cycle, I can manage to get all 12 rep off the floor with maybe 1 rest pause necessary.
I increase the weight 15lbs and restart the cycle at 7 mats high again. Generally, I will be able to pull 12 reps from 7 high again, but may lose 1-2 reps when I get to the floor. I keep adding weight each time the cycle repeats, and use rest pausing more frequently (these days, I will rest twice in a set).
Once I have increased the weight to the point that I can only pull 2 reps off the floor in the initial set before needing to rest pause, I cut about 10% off from how much I was lifting for that set, and start the whole process over again. By that point, the 90% of my working weight is light enough that I can get at least 12 reps on a 7 high mat pull without resting.
This makes sense to me as I write it, but I understand it can be confusing from the outside perspective. Let me know if there is anything I can clarify.[/quote]
How did you decide a 12 RM was the place to start?
[quote]TheKraken wrote:
How did you decide a 12 RM was the place to start? [/quote]
Just the place life took me. I’ve always started this approach with plate PRs, and the time it was most successful was when I started with 495 and managed 12 at that point. I have run it in the past with a 5rm, and I would very quickly be unable to complete the cycle, usually not managing past the 5th mat.
Pretty much, it’s reverse engineered. Instead of saying “I wonder how much weight I will need to hit 12 reps”, I pick a weight and find out how many reps I can manage with it and go from there.
On the above, just finished the first day of a new cycle where I took 9% off the bar from my last deadlift. Had 590 on the bar and managed 11 reps in one go with another one at least easily in the tank. Were I not a week out from comp, I would have gone for it. The number 12 may just subconsciously be in me as well, but it seems to be wherever I am when I start a cycle.
That said, I rest paused for another 4 reps after the fact, leaving another one in the tank. Usually, without a competition looming, I go all out on this and eek out 1 more rest pause as well.
Thought this link would be something you would find interesting. He is speaking about baseball pitchers for the most part, but feel in the opposite direction of his focus, much of this can apply to powerlifting as well.
[quote]BacktotheBar wrote:
Thought this link would be something you would find interesting. He is speaking about baseball pitchers for the most part, but feel in the opposite direction of his focus, much of this can apply to powerlifting as well.
[/quote]
I spent a lot of my earlier training years really trying to understand all this stuff, but it just never clicked for me. Whenever I tried to make myself faster, I never really seemed to get any stronger, but when I finally decided to give that up and just focus on getting stronger, it seemed to pay off. Definitely a lot of interesting stuff in that video, and I’ve known people that have been able to apply those lessons incredibly well (Mike Hedlesky, who used to post here as StormTheBeach was very knowledgeable on the subject, and incredibly strong).
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]TheKraken wrote:
How did you decide a 12 RM was the place to start? [/quote]
Just the place life took me. I’ve always started this approach with plate PRs, and the time it was most successful was when I started with 495 and managed 12 at that point. I have run it in the past with a 5rm, and I would very quickly be unable to complete the cycle, usually not managing past the 5th mat.
Pretty much, it’s reverse engineered. Instead of saying “I wonder how much weight I will need to hit 12 reps”, I pick a weight and find out how many reps I can manage with it and go from there.[/quote]
thanks, I switched to a gym that has mats, and more equipment than I knew existed so I might finally be try this in full (I did some limited partials in the past with success). I also switched to a 531 for strongman program http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/kentucky-strong-531-for-strongman/ but after 3 weeks my lower back is in knots. I think this is more because I have not taken a deload this year than the program, but I am deloading now.
So…2 questions, first, any thoughts on the program I linked to? I chose it because I want to compete in strongman, I like the 531 programing and this one adds the volume I’ve always thought was missing in the regular 531.
Secondly, what sort of mobility do you do? Especially for lower-back, erector QL area.
[quote]TheKraken wrote:
thanks, I switched to a gym that has mats, and more equipment than I knew existed so I might finally be try this in full (I did some limited partials in the past with success). I also switched to a 531 for strongman program http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/kentucky-strong-531-for-strongman/ but after 3 weeks my lower back is in knots. I think this is more because I have not taken a deload this year than the program, but I am deloading now.
So…2 questions, first, any thoughts on the program I linked to? I chose it because I want to compete in strongman, I like the 531 programing and this one adds the volume I’ve always thought was missing in the regular 531.
Secondly, what sort of mobility do you do? Especially for lower-back, erector QL area. [/quote]
You’ll have to keep in mind that I’m a far better powerlifter than I am a strongman, so my opinion on programming for the latter isn’t very valuable, but Chase knows what he is doing, and that is definitely workable. The big thing with strongman is knowing what your weaknesses are and improving those. I’m really good at standing in one place and being strong, but terrible at moving quickly, so whenever I have a comp coming up, I really try to improve my speed more than anything else.
Elitefts put out an article recently titled “Training For Novice Strongman” by Mike Mastell (not linking it here because it might get deleted, but google it) that provided an example of 2 different templates depending on if someone had good static strength but poor athleticism and vise versa. Really good read. The Cube Method for strongman has some great stuff as well.
As for your other question, I honestly don’t do any mobility work. It’s not the most popular opinion, but I don’t believe in it. I feel like it’s just one of those ideas like pre-workout supplements that got injected into the training community and was rapidly absorbed and became really present. I think the best thing people can do to get more mobile is move around more, playing sports or just lifting weights, and when I look back on great strength athletes, ranging from Sandow, Arthur Saxon, Bob Peoples, Paul Anderson, Bill Kazmaier, etc, I just can’t fathom the image of them laying on the floor rolling around on foam to get stronger. There was a recent article here on T-Nation about Foam Rollers and Mobility work sucks that talked on some decent points.
I know you probably weren’t asking for my opinion on it, but I’m somewhat passionate on the subject, haha.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]TheKraken wrote:
thanks, I switched to a gym that has mats, and more equipment than I knew existed so I might finally be try this in full (I did some limited partials in the past with success). I also switched to a 531 for strongman program http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/kentucky-strong-531-for-strongman/ but after 3 weeks my lower back is in knots. I think this is more because I have not taken a deload this year than the program, but I am deloading now.
So…2 questions, first, any thoughts on the program I linked to? I chose it because I want to compete in strongman, I like the 531 programing and this one adds the volume I’ve always thought was missing in the regular 531.
Secondly, what sort of mobility do you do? Especially for lower-back, erector QL area. [/quote]
You’ll have to keep in mind that I’m a far better powerlifter than I am a strongman, so my opinion on programming for the latter isn’t very valuable, but Chase knows what he is doing, and that is definitely workable. The big thing with strongman is knowing what your weaknesses are and improving those. I’m really good at standing in one place and being strong, but terrible at moving quickly, so whenever I have a comp coming up, I really try to improve my speed more than anything else.
Elitefts put out an article recently titled “Training For Novice Strongman” by Mike Mastell (not linking it here because it might get deleted, but google it) that provided an example of 2 different templates depending on if someone had good static strength but poor athleticism and vise versa. Really good read. The Cube Method for strongman has some great stuff as well.
As for your other question, I honestly don’t do any mobility work. It’s not the most popular opinion, but I don’t believe in it. I feel like it’s just one of those ideas like pre-workout supplements that got injected into the training community and was rapidly absorbed and became really present. I think the best thing people can do to get more mobile is move around more, playing sports or just lifting weights, and when I look back on great strength athletes, ranging from Sandow, Arthur Saxon, Bob Peoples, Paul Anderson, Bill Kazmaier, etc, I just can’t fathom the image of them laying on the floor rolling around on foam to get stronger. There was a recent article here on T-Nation about Foam Rollers and Mobility work sucks that talked on some decent points.
I know you probably weren’t asking for my opinion on it, but I’m somewhat passionate on the subject, haha.
[/quote]
Thanks, and I actually specifically asked for your opinion. The foam rolling has a cool factor for some people but I’d agree, there are better uses of my time. Stretching as in actually creating mobility, can be useful and is getting more important as I get older.
Started the ROM progression cycle over again. Hit this for a starting PR
Hoping to at least double 650 in about 8 months.