Punching Power and Then Some

Thank you all for the complimants.

I am not sure how deserved they are. My posts were more or less just explaining something we were all doing anyway.

Humble makes some great points in his post.

This brings to my mind something about this whole generating power/energy transfer/weight transfer thing. Most books/articles/lessons seem to really emphasize how to create the momentum and spend less time on making sure it is delivered to the target in a way that does the injuries we want.

Most novices can be taught to get a decent amount of power going with at least a few strikes. Where I see the most mistakes are that when they hit, they buckle all over the place and waste their momentum. It really doesn’t take much momentum to accomplish pain/injury. I think we have all rung our bells walking into tree branches, stumbling into a corner/wall in the dark, or standing up into a cabinet. The fact is that when flesh meets solid, flesh gets fucked up.

When I think of the tremendous strikers I have met/seen in real life, the ones who hit HARD, I realize they were very solid when they made contact. On the other hand beginners sort of crumple and waste the energy of the collision. In essence padding the blow by allowing their own joints to move.

Here is an example of what I mean by solid.

Now granted Foreman’s technique left a lot to be desired in terms of “boxing”, I think duffy wrote in another thread that it seemed he “should lose a boxing contest to a mechanical sheep”, but he could hit.

Here is not solid.

Granted, he is much smaller than Foreman, but so is the bag. And he is indeed turning his hips and shoulders. If you watch any one level/marker it is not so bad, but then contact is made and “where did all the force go?”. NOTE: Even though he is not yielding blows that are all that hard, notice how tired he get? That is all of the spurious and useless tension humble was explaining. He is working harder than George, but for much less result.

Of course we all recognize how important this stability is. Wrapping/taping hands and wrists is a benefit largely because of the extra stability it lends the wrist joint. Most hit harder with a palm than a punch(bare handed/sans gloves and wraps), taking the wrist out of play seems to allow it.

Of course even though I am saying be solid to get the force into the target, I am not saying to do any kind of two part, slap then push, non-sense.

Regards,

Robert A

[quote]Robert A wrote:
Thank you all for the complimants.

I am not sure how deserved they are. My posts were more or less just explaining something we were all doing anyway.

Humble makes some great points in his post.

This brings to my mind something about this whole generating power/energy transfer/weight transfer thing. Most books/articles/lessons seem to really emphasize how to create the momentum and spend less time on making sure it is delivered to the target in a way that does the injuries we want.

Most novices can be taught to get a decent amount of power going with at least a few strikes. Where I see the most mistakes are that when they hit, they buckle all over the place and waste their momentum. It really doesn’t take much momentum to accomplish pain/injury. I think we have all rung our bells walking into tree branches, stumbling into a corner/wall in the dark, or standing up into a cabinet. The fact is that when flesh meets solid, flesh gets fucked up.

When I think of the tremendous strikers I have met/seen in real life, the ones who hit HARD, I realize they were very solid when they made contact. On the other hand beginners sort of crumple and waste the energy of the collision. In essence padding the blow by allowing their own joints to move.

Here is an example of what I mean by solid.

Now granted Foreman’s technique left a lot to be desired in terms of “boxing”, I think duffy wrote in another thread that it seemed he “should lose a boxing contest to a mechanical sheep”, but he could hit.

Here is not solid.

Granted, he is much smaller than Foreman, but so is the bag. And he is indeed turning his hips and shoulders. If you watch any one level/marker it is not so bad, but then contact is made and “where did all the force go?”. NOTE: Even though he is not yielding blows that are all that hard, notice how tired he get? That is all of the spurious and useless tension humble was explaining. He is working harder than George, but for much less result.

Of course we all recognize how important this stability is. Wrapping/taping hands and wrists is a benefit largely because of the extra stability it lends the wrist joint. Most hit harder with a palm than a punch(bare handed/sans gloves and wraps), taking the wrist out of play seems to allow it.

Of course even though I am saying be solid to get the force into the target, I am not saying to do any kind of two part, slap then push, non-sense.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

This is so true. The very power one generates and momentumizes from their toes to their fist bounces back at them and reverberates through their body. All that concententric energy then turns into eccentric energy as that transmission reverses and the body does it’s best through a series of contractions passing from one limb to the next, from one joint to the next until all that energy is absorbed. The result? As you said, working hard for nothing and then the CNS eventually recognising that pattern and commencing in a hyper state of concentric and eccentric contractions simultaneously, ie agonists firing with partial antagonists in preparation for the ‘bounce back’.
Foreman is an excellent example and you can see how the heavy bag and whatever is attached to it is going to lose out every time lol. Similarily but oppositely, look at how the poor fellow bounces off the bag and at times even his footwork has to move in the wrong direction to absorb the bounce back. It’s lucky that frame is not solid otherwise he’d be even more trouble but even so he is losing out big time.

One intelligent way of learning proper relaxation and technique in punching is completely opposite of what we know in western boxing and that is tension management, more specifically through breathing management. Some will slag it, but at the elite level systema really has tremendous benefits and tools for boxers if they care to adapt them into their game.

Oh shit you didn’t Humble…

I like you a hell of a lot because you REALLY know what you’re talking about if you posted videos of systema.

But you do realise the flaming and trolling my very well get underway now. I actually decided to avoid mentioning systema because, well you’ve seen youtube.

[quote]backyardleopard wrote:
Oh shit you didn’t Humble…

I like you a hell of a lot because you REALLY know what you’re talking about if you posted videos of systema.

But you do realise the flaming and trolling my very well get underway now. I actually decided to avoid mentioning systema because, well you’ve seen youtube.[/quote]

what is all the hate for systema?

[quote]kaisermetal wrote:

[quote]backyardleopard wrote:
Oh shit you didn’t Humble…

I like you a hell of a lot because you REALLY know what you’re talking about if you posted videos of systema.

But you do realise the flaming and trolling my very well get underway now. I actually decided to avoid mentioning systema because, well you’ve seen youtube.[/quote]

what is all the hate for systema?

[/quote]

I don’t hate it. Other people do. Once someone mentions it or posts videos of it it invariably draws a shit load of heat.

People will watch training videos and take them out of context. Then the comparisons with MMA start.

Also because its a Russian martial art with practical military application in mind people seem to want to jump all over it from the stand point of “Russia is a nation of drunks who can’t do shit.”

I loved Robert A’s posts particularly because so much of what he said explained the science behind systema. Because the first thing you are taught about striking in systema is that strikes are ballistic in nature and to make your hand heavy.

I just didn’t want to mention any of it because I’d wind up having to get into the usual internet super hero arguements…

No! If you use self-censorship the internet-idiots have won! You can’t let that happen.

[quote]backyardleopard wrote:

[quote]kaisermetal wrote:

[quote]backyardleopard wrote:
Oh shit you didn’t Humble…

I like you a hell of a lot because you REALLY know what you’re talking about if you posted videos of systema.

But you do realise the flaming and trolling my very well get underway now. I actually decided to avoid mentioning systema because, well you’ve seen youtube.[/quote]

what is all the hate for systema?

[/quote]

I don’t hate it. Other people do. Once someone mentions it or posts videos of it it invariably draws a shit load of heat.

People will watch training videos and take them out of context. Then the comparisons with MMA start.

Also because its a Russian martial art with practical military application in mind people seem to want to jump all over it from the stand point of “Russia is a nation of drunks who can’t do shit.”

I loved Robert A’s posts particularly because so much of what he said explained the science behind systema. Because the first thing you are taught about striking in systema is that strikes are ballistic in nature and to make your hand heavy.

I just didn’t want to mention any of it because I’d wind up having to get into the usual internet super hero arguements…
[/quote]

“Russia is a nation of drunks who can’t do shit.”

I would lol madly at anyone who made this statement to me. Russians are the baddests mother fuckers alive nowadays.

[quote]backyardleopard wrote:
Oh shit you didn’t Humble…

I like you a hell of a lot because you REALLY know what you’re talking about if you posted videos of systema.

But you do realise the flaming and trolling my very well get underway now. I actually decided to avoid mentioning systema because, well you’ve seen youtube.[/quote]

I understand the uneasyness some people have about systema, it’s all too easy to slag something you don’t know anything about and just do what others do and say what other say.

I’ve had my fair share of fighting with near 20 pro fights and over 15 years of sparring some big hitters. Being a super heavyweight, I’ve been hit by bombers too. I could take quite a few of their hits and I still have my wits about me.
Having been struck by a systema guy (after being a skeptic), I quickly changed my opinion, especially since he was 20 kg lighter than me, wasn’t braced, didn’t wind up and showed no classic boxing stance or movement when he hit me, which I was also ready for so it wasn’t on the blind.

Having a science background, I wanted to learn more about what just occured. Sure there is a little bit of hogwash to sift through and especially on the internet but there are some serious bad asses who can break stuff.
Kostya Tszyu himself was known to have dynamite in his hands from all his opponents confessions. In interviews here in oz he’s said so many times he never punches to hit the surface or target but when he punches his aim is always to revereate through the whole body and break things inside and through the body. He’s also known to seek conditioning and power techniques through the orient.
Close mindedness never made anyone great and only shows ones insecurities about admitting that no matter how much they know, they don’t know jack in the grand scheme of things.
For me, it took a punch to realise that but for others they will remain oblivious to just how much their is out there because quite simply there is so little inside of them.
A great scholar once said, “The more I learned, the more ignorant I became”. <— magic ingredient for success.

Really Kaiser, given your avi I would have never guessed that about you :stuck_out_tongue:

Seriously though you know what I mean when I say it can provoke some senseless bullshit sometimes.

Humble, I know what you mean. Well said too.

Don’t worry this week i shall change to the future 2012 UFC HW Champion

Mark Hunttttt!

Lol dunno about that. Fedor is still the greatest fighter who ever lived IMO. But I don’t follow MMA as much as you so I don’t know as much about it.

[quote]backyardleopard wrote:
Lol dunno about that. Fedor is still the greatest fighter who ever lived IMO. But I don’t follow MMA as much as you so I don’t know as much about it.[/quote]

Fedor still is, i’m glad that even people that aren’t hardcore with the sport are able to see that.

[quote]kaisermetal wrote:

[quote]backyardleopard wrote:
Lol dunno about that. Fedor is still the greatest fighter who ever lived IMO. But I don’t follow MMA as much as you so I don’t know as much about it.[/quote]

Fedor still is, i’m glad that even people that aren’t hardcore with the sport are able to see that.[/quote]

Hahahahahaha I don’t know how anyone can even reach any other conclusion. Fedor is large and fast, exceptionally powerful and is a technical master. People who don’t see what he is as a fighter are either being deliberately perverse or are some kinda special fuck-ass incest retarded.

I know little about about fighting but I am pretty sure punching power is proportionnal to the impulse, the rate of change (derivative) of the force when your hands connects.

shit, this thread has too much physics for my brain being able to process.

[quote]humble wrote:

[quote]backyardleopard wrote:
Oh shit you didn’t Humble…

I like you a hell of a lot because you REALLY know what you’re talking about if you posted videos of systema.

But you do realise the flaming and trolling my very well get underway now. I actually decided to avoid mentioning systema because, well you’ve seen youtube.[/quote]

I understand the uneasyness some people have about systema, it’s all too easy to slag something you don’t know anything about and just do what others do and say what other say.

I’ve had my fair share of fighting with near 20 pro fights and over 15 years of sparring some big hitters. Being a super heavyweight, I’ve been hit by bombers too. I could take quite a few of their hits and I still have my wits about me.
Having been struck by a systema guy (after being a skeptic), I quickly changed my opinion, especially since he was 20 kg lighter than me, wasn’t braced, didn’t wind up and showed no classic boxing stance or movement when he hit me, which I was also ready for so it wasn’t on the blind.

Having a science background, I wanted to learn more about what just occured. Sure there is a little bit of hogwash to sift through and especially on the internet but there are some serious bad asses who can break stuff.
Kostya Tszyu himself was known to have dynamite in his hands from all his opponents confessions. In interviews here in oz he’s said so many times he never punches to hit the surface or target but when he punches his aim is always to revereate through the whole body and break things inside and through the body. He’s also known to seek conditioning and power techniques through the orient.
Close mindedness never made anyone great and only shows ones insecurities about admitting that no matter how much they know, they don’t know jack in the grand scheme of things.
For me, it took a punch to realise that but for others they will remain oblivious to just how much their is out there because quite simply there is so little inside of them.
A great scholar once said, “The more I learned, the more ignorant I became”. <— magic ingredient for success.[/quote]

great thread guys and sorry if this is a hijack.

@humble.sorry if youve mentioned it before but just wondering what styles you have fought in and what weight you would have fought at being super hw.

cheers,

[quote]flipya4it wrote:

great thread guys and sorry if this is a hijack.

@humble.sorry if youve mentioned it before but just wondering what styles you have fought in and what weight you would have fought at being super hw.

cheers,
[/quote]

Hi flipya,

Muay Thai is the style I fought and trained in professionally. Fought in super heavies which down under means 95+ kg. I also train in boxing to supplement the Muay Thai.
My fight weight ranged from 97-105 kg and I’ve fought guys from 97-120 kg.
Dabbled in Kung Fu, MMA, BJJ, Tae Kwon Do.

Learn how your body works. Not saying that you’re lazy, but really but time into teaching your body the proper movement for punches. Pushing off with the back foot, turning your hips into the punch and keeping your hands where they’re supposed to be. These are all things you can practice at a fraction of the pace and energy that it would normally take to hit things. Some of my best striking improvements have come from down time.

[quote]humble wrote:

[quote]flipya4it wrote:

great thread guys and sorry if this is a hijack.

@humble.sorry if youve mentioned it before but just wondering what styles you have fought in and what weight you would have fought at being super hw.

cheers,
[/quote]

Hi flipya,

Muay Thai is the style I fought and trained in professionally. Fought in super heavies which down under means 95+ kg. I also train in boxing to supplement the Muay Thai.
My fight weight ranged from 97-105 kg and I’ve fought guys from 97-120 kg.
Dabbled in Kung Fu, MMA, BJJ, Tae Kwon Do.[/quote]

hey humble,

thanks for the reply.

much respect to you for 20 pro fights.look forward to your perspective on various topics on the forum.

cheers,

[quote]Beershoes wrote:
Learn how your body works. Not saying that you’re lazy, but really but time into teaching your body the proper movement for punches. Pushing off with the back foot, turning your hips into the punch and keeping your hands where they’re supposed to be. These are all things you can practice at a fraction of the pace and energy that it would normally take to hit things. Some of my best striking improvements have come from down time. [/quote]

Agreed. I’ve taken to doing a couple rounds of light shadowboxing every morning and just focusing on technique, and taking it easy… and you’d be surprised how that little bit can ingrain some big changes, especially when the pressure is off and you’re not trying to hit with power or impress anyone.